Dissecting Ganguly - The Batsman

[The Outsider]

Ganguly since his return = Kallis of India with the bat.

1. Does Kallis give away 10 runs in the field on a regular basis? No. 2. Does Kallis drop catches like Ganguly does? No. 3. Does Kallis deny his partners of singles and twos while batting? No. 4. Does Kallis have the ability to bowl a regular 6-8 overs per match? Yes. I know you will say "Kallis with the bat" but sadly a player's value to the team is not judged on one parameter alone.

[Anakin]

Not sure so asking how many catches has SCG dropped recently? I'm pretty sure it's a lot less than few others in the team. Kallis isn't all that electric in fielding either.

[The Outsider]

Not sure so asking how many catches has SCG dropped recently? I'm pretty sure it's a lot less than few others in the team. Kallis isn't all that electric in fielding either.

He dropped 2 in the 2nd ODI itself and regularly leaked runs. Kallis might not be electric in the field but is safe on the lines of Tendulkar and is one of the best catchers in world cricket.

[Anakin]

2 in 1 match can happen, doesn't mean he's dropping them every series for sure. And leaking 10 runs is just an exaggeration.

[dial_100]

2 in 1 match can happen' date=' doesn't mean he's dropping them every series for sure. And leaking 10 runs is just an [b']exaggeration.

:hysterical::hysterical: Nothing seem exaggeration when it comes to his athletic skillss....

[coverpoint]

2 in 1 match can happen' date=' doesn't mean he's dropping them every series for sure. And leaking 10 runs is just an exaggeration.[/quote'] This is an old gangulian trick. Try to get the people lost in sidey arguments while the main issue goes unnoticed. Point a lot of people have made is that SG's poor fielding loses 10+ runs a game. Point is that SG loses 10+ runs while running b/w wickets for not only himself but for his partners too Point is that he does not have the ability to be a big hitter anymore (score fast) Neither is a anchor (who can rotate the strike ... as his dot balls show). The gangulians need to wake up and smell the Rasgullah!

[Anakin]

As usual, saying the same thing doesn't make it right. Kaif doesn't save 15 runs every game, SCG doesn't give away 10 runs every game. Both are exaggerations.

[CC1981]

Most important question that is unanswered is who takes over from Ganguly ? Just who can come in the side who offers a better deal than 47 average + 71 strike rate ? Gambhir ? Utthapa ? KKD ? I doubt any of them can even do a 35 average + 80 strike rate, which will still be worse than Gangoo's combo.

[The Outsider]

I doubt any of them can even do a 35 average + 80 strike rate, which will still be worse than

35 average + 10 runs difference on the field + 10 runs difference in running between wickets + fewer dropped catches +rotation of strike is much more than Ganguly contributes

[CC1981]

Except apart from one aspect, the others cannot be quantified/measured. Please tell me exactly how many runs gangoo has cost in the field, how much strike rotation he's done and how many catches he's dropped in the last 15 matches.

[Anakin]

When was the last time SCG dropped catches other than that match?

[coverpoint]

As usual' date=' saying the same thing doesn't make it right. Kaif doesn't save 15 runs every game, SCG doesn't give away 10 runs every game. Both are exaggerations.[/quote'] Actually this can easily be quatified.... All u have to do is watch the game without the SG tainted glasses. Watch him build the Hawra bridge diving over the ball ... or jogging after it. Count those runs... I actually did this once ... on chat with a bunch of guys on the CV site ... counted every bloody run SG gave that a Kaif would have saved .... stopped counting at 25.... and when I thought the Gangulians had all left the chat in disgust!

[kabira]

Everytime they were hitting to ganguly they pressed for 2s. The bowling is about applying pressure. Bowlers adn fielders have to work together to get batsman out. But if you see your fielder giving away runs easily, you feel helpless. Just see how Sachin got out in ODI 1 and ODI 3. He was frustruted. In 1st ODI, several of his shots were saved and he was denied singles. Ditto in 3rd ODI. In ODI you need to bring to the table more than 1 aspect unless you are true genious. Before we drop Ganguly, I would want Munaf, RP and Powar to go. There is room for only one of them and that will be Munaf I guess..but not all.

[Anakin]

Actually this can easily be quatified.... All u have to do is watch the game without the SG tainted glasses. Watch him build the Hawra bridge diving over the ball ... or jogging after it. Count those runs... I actually did this once ... on chat with a bunch of guys on the CV site ... counted every bloody run SG gave that a Kaif would have saved .... stopped counting at 25.... and when I thought the Gangulians had all left the chat in disgust!

Obviously with the anti-SG tainted glasses on.

[Anakin]

Everytime they were hitting to ganguly they pressed for 2s. The bowling is about applying pressure. Bowlers adn fielders have to work together to get batsman out. But if you see your fielder giving away runs easily, you feel helpless. Just see how Sachin got out in ODI 1 and ODI 3. He was frustruted. In 1st ODI, several of his shots were saved and he was denied singles. Ditto in 3rd ODI. In ODI you need to bring to the table more than 1 aspect unless you are true genious. Before we drop Ganguly, I would want Munaf, RP and Powar to go. There is room for only one of them and that will be Munaf I guess..but not all.

You have some valid points, and rightly SCG deserves some blame there. But he isn't the worse fielder by a long way, doesn't drop catches regularly like others. The too obvious problem he's been having is the inability to rotate the strike often.

[coverpoint]

You have some valid points' date=' and rightly SCG deserves some blame there. But he isn't the worse fielder by a long way, doesn't drop catches regularly like others. The too obvious problem he's been having is the inability to rotate the strike often.[/quote'] Sorry Young Anakin, another Gangulian trick here. As soon as your hero gets exposed start finding others and make them to be bigger villains. We are not discussing others here .... just Ganguly.... and he doesnt deserve to be in the team

[Anakin]

Sorry Young Anakin, another Gangulian trick here. As soon as your hero gets exposed start finding others and make them to be bigger villains. We are not discussing others here .... just Ganguly.... and he doesnt deserve to be in the team

Sorry to say you don't even have any trick, just your hatred without much validity.

[CC1981]

just Ganguly.... and he doesnt deserve to be in the team

Not true. It is pretty retarded to drop a batsman who is averaging 47 with bat and 71 strike rate in a team that isnt exactly doing superbly. As for giving up 20-30 runs in the field, that is quite clearly an exgaggeration. gangu is a below average fielder but not a total liability on the field - he had a bad day recently and everyone is entitled to have an occasional bad day at the office. And more to the point- find me a player who's good enough to replace 47batting ave.+ 71 st/rate against NON-MINNOW nations (yes, those are his figures after comming back to the ODI side minus BD/ireland/zimbabwe/scotland etc) The answer is simple- there is no-one. IMO, the biggest problem at the top are not Ganguly- it is Tendulkar and Dravid. First Dravid- he is batting out of position. Pure and simple. Dravid can rotate strike efficiently these days and he can get in some stunning blows when he gets his eye in. But he is a bit of a slow starter still and his shepherding skills are better used at #5, where having the momentum going is critical. Bump Yuvraj up to #4- Yuvraj when he gets going bats at a very good ODI style- he gets boundaries from the get go as well as sprinkling in liberal amounts of singles. That is a suitable #4 trait. Now on to Tendulkar- the problem with the opening is not that Ganguly is doing poorly, it is that Tendulkar's style has changed dramatically. He is no longer the batsman who scores 30 in 35 and then paces the next 70 in 75 balls. He nowadays bats as 30 in 45, 50 in 75, 100 in 115 type, ie, building slowly and then accelerating. There is nothing wrong in this but the trouble is, Ganguly is an identical type player and two of the same cannot co-exist as an opening pair. So the choice is between shuttling Ganguly or Tendulkar at #3 and it's much better if its Tendu. For all his decline, Tendu is still a rather excellent ODI player and he still rotates strike fairly decently. Gangu is far more the 'boundary-type' scorer and he stands to do far worse than Tendu at #3. So put Tendu in #3 and recall Sehwag. Our top order should be: Sehwag Ganguly Tendu Yuvraj Dravid Dhoni

[Guest dada_rocks]

I wud say guys this thread is going to bite in wrong ways soon.. my prediction always comes good in matters of ganguly.. so once agian find respective holes u will need it:giggle:

[theguyinallblue]

i read all the comments...and i am really grateful to Ravi, Rajiv and Co....to give us a platform to voice our opinions..without any fear of deletion of posts...or being barred from posting altogether... Thanks a lot Guys... and DR...come the aussie tour...Ganguly's is going to get screwed by Aussies assault :cantstop:...