Would you pick me in your team?

[Dravid]

@mm- there is a big difference there.. look at the opponents and where the matches were played without dada.. wi beat us.. but in WI with dada..we beat em.. in India also we played some matches against aus, and SA in SA dada played against sa... but it wasnt on hard, bouncy, green pitches in SA..and that sa team was without polly also, that 1 bermuda match is making a big diff in the run rate :hysterical::hysterical:

[coverpoint]

K , here goes the stats i have promised. Please go through them in detail and feel free to come to your own conclusions The two main accusations made against Ganguly have been

• He bats too slow , affecting the team's run rate

• Because he plays so many dot balls , the batsman around him get frustrated and get out

To see if any of these are actually true , i decided to study two parameters, namely the average runs scored by India for every wicket they lost and their av average run rate , for periods prior to Ganguly's comeback and after it. The First time line - May 2006 to Dec 2006 , a period of 15 ODIs , when Ganguly was out of the team. Here are the stats for them. May-June ( All matches Against W.Indies) India Scores 254/5 44.5 overs , 197 a.o, 49.4 overs , 245/9 , 49.5 overs , 217/7, 50 overs, 236 , 48 overs Total runs - 1149 total wickets - 41 Total overs - 241 overs DLF cup September 2006 Against W.I - 309/5 in 50 overs , Against W.I 162 a.o in 40 overs , Against Australia 195 a.o in 43.5 overs. total runs - 666 total wickets - 25 Total overs - 133.5 Champions trophy October 2006 Against England 126/6 in 29.3 overs , Against W.I 223/9 in 50 overs , Against Australia 249/8 in 50 overs total runs - 598 , wickets - 23 overs - 129.3 S.Africa - November 2006 248/8 in 50 overs , 168 a.o in 41.3 overs , 163 a.o in 38 overs , 200/9 in50 overs Total runs - 779 wickets - 37 overs - 179.3 overs Total matches played in this period - 15 For this period , Total runs - 3192 Total wickets - 126 Total overs faced - 683.1 verage runs/wicket - 25.33 Ave RR - 4.67 That is , In this period , India scored 25.33 runs for every wicket they lost and scored at an average run rate of 4.67 runs per over Now , for the second time - After Ganguly's comeback , from Jan of 2007 to present ( including the 3 ODIs against England). This period contains a total of 17 matches. West Indies jan 2007 Match 1 - India 338/3 batting first 50 overs Match 2 - India 189 all out batting first , 48.2 Match 3 - 268 all out , 48 overs Match 4 - India 341/5 batting first Total runs - 1136 Total wickets - 28 Total overs - 244.2 Sri Lanka in India, Feb 2007 Match 1 - India 252/9 in 50 overs , Match 2 - India 230/5 in 46 overs Match 3 - India 261/3 in 41 overs Total runs - 743 Total wickets - 17 Total overs - 137 World cup - March April 2007 Match -1 against Bangladesh - India scored 191 a.o 49.3 Match - 2 against Bermuda - India 413/3 in 50 overs Match -3 against Sri Lanka - India all out for 185 all out in 43.3 overs Total runs - 789 Total wickets - 23 Total overs - 142.6 India in Ireland - June Match - 1 against Ireland - India 170/1 in 35 overs India Vs South Africa - June/July Match 1 - India scores 242/8 in 50 overs Match 2 - India 227/4 in 49.1 overs Match 3 - India 152/4 in 31 overs Total runs - 791 Total wickets - 17 Total overs - 164.1 ODIs Vs England - Aug 2007 Match 1- India A.O for 184 in 50 overs Match 2 - India 329/7 in 50 overs Match 3 - India 239 all out , in 48 overs Total runs - 752 Total wickets - 27 Totalv overs - 148 overs For the entire period after Ganguly's comeback, total runs - 4211 total wickets - 112 total overs - 835.5 Ave runs/wicket - 37.5 Ave RR - 5.04 That is , India have scored 37.5 runs for every wicket they have lost and scored at an average rate of 5.04 runs per over. Compare this with the 25.33 runs/wicket and 4.67 runs/over that they managed in the period prior to his comeback. Ganguly has top scored for his team with 767 runs since he came into the team. It is his solid presence that enables the batsman around to build partnerships and attack with freedom , two essential aspects one day batting. No wonder that they lost 60% of the matches they played in the period of May 2006 to Dec 2006 and won 64% of the matches they played from Jan 2007 to Aug 2007 , when Ganguly came back into the team .

Good work with the stats. Unfortunately I dont think this proves much. You are comparing run rates across different times on different pitches etc. For example SG has played a lot of games when the par score has been 300 odd. The whole WI series in India post his come back or the Vaas and Murali less Lanka series had very high scoring games. THis also includes games against Scots and Irish. This Pommie series too has been high scoring (in terms of pitches etc). What I was hoping you would come up would be dot balls faced by the likes of Sehwag, Uthappa etc in SG's absence vs now. Or scores in the first 20 overs then and now.

[Ram]

@mm- there is a big difference there.. look at the opponents and where the matches were played without dada.. wi beat us.. but in WI with dada..we beat em.. in India also we played some matches against aus, and SA in SA dada played against sa... but it wasnt on hard, bouncy, green pitches in SA..and that sa team was without polly

If we are to get into such nitty grtties , it can be a endless game. At best , we can choose to trust/not trust facts that have been presented.

also, that 1 bermuda match is making a big diff in the run rate :hysterical::hysterical:

:hysterical:.. Was wondering if anybody would point that out... :haha:

[coverpoint]

Also someone has said can anyone else replace dada's 55 average at 70 SR (The TINA argument). My question is do u really want to replace that? We know that 55 average at this sr (basically eating up 1/3 of the balls in the match for 55 runs) is not winning us games. Would we rather not have a 30 average at SR of 85 or 90? If we are looking for t hat kind of player to play at the top with SRT then we can find many. Why even our own Parantha (Sehwag) could do that (SR of 95 at an average of 32). Dosaman could do that too. So really the whole argument of looking for a 55 average slow coach is wrong

[Ram]

Good work with the stats. Unfortunately I dont think this proves much. You are comparing run rates across different times on different pitches etc. For example SG has played a lot of games when the par score has been 300 odd. The whole WI series in India post his come back or the Vaas and Murali less Lanka series had very high scoring games. THis also includes games against Scots and Irish. This Pommie series too has been high scoring (in terms of pitches etc).

True , to an extent. But the time He wasnt in the team, India played matches West Indies , India and malaysia , which themselves arent bad batting surfaces. And India has played 5 of its 17 matches in Ireland where conditions arent THAT batsman friendly , post Ganguly's comeback. The two parameters i have chosen , runs scored/wicket lost , Ave run rate are , I think , fair reflections of a team's one day batting prowess.

What I was hoping you would come up would be dot balls faced by the likes of Sehwag, Uthappa etc in SG's absence vs now. Or scores in the first 20 overs then and now.

And for me to do that my friend , i might have to quit my degree . This bloddy thing of whatever i did took one whole hour to do. :cry_smile:

[theguyinallblue]

we suffered from some sudden fall in form of indian bnatsmen...culprits were...Sehwag, Sachin, Raina and Dravid. now Dravid has regained his touch..sachin seems to be scoring...all we need is a sehwag type opener.. NOT a Grafter....hell.....Ganguly and sachin should learn from Jayasurya and Gilly..... they are much older than these two..and still score runs against good attacks... i feel as these players can sense that their end is near..thay are playing for Personal Records..and Stats... this is going to harm indian cricket..in the long run...

[coverpoint]

True , to an extent. But the time He wasnt in the team, India played matches West Indies , India and malaysia , which themselves arent bad batting surfaces. And India has played 5 of its 17 matches in Ireland where conditions arent THAT batsman friendly , post Ganguly's comeback. The two parameters i have chosen , runs scored/wicket lost , Ave run rate are , I think , fair reflections of a team's one day batting prowess.

Actually the conditions during champions trophy and Malaysia were totally bowling friendly. You remember that in malaysia the par score was 230 odd. During Champions trophy I think no team reached 250 for the longest time. They talked about the conditions being completely unlike the sub continent. So again the comparison is incorrect.

[monkeyfood]

:haha: