Missing Murali Kartik

[CG]

You should probably watch the game once again - in/out fields are really common and Ganguly/Dravid/Kumble all of them employed it. Zaheer had taken Langer OUT in his first over and Ponting scored a crucial 8 runs of this next over which in the context of the game is like 20-30 runs. But we won and no one put a finger on it. Do you also feel Cook was defensive today? I would love to see if any website (or any poster on this forum) point it out that Cook was defensive. This defensive/attacking is BS - there was a wonderful article by Ed Smith recently on this (it goes on in football too). Ganguly in the Chennai Test match of the same series used the in-out field effectively - 4 fielders around the bat and rest on the boundary. The first 2 sessions in normal fields Australia raced to 190 odd for 2-3 wickets and then Kumble spun them out for within 70-100 runs. The issue is it is becoming a "fashion" to blame Dhoni with the typical mob mentality. In fact, with the line/length and one half-tracker per over bowled by Ashwin - no field is good enough. You can't set the fields for bad balls.

In/Out field are common on flat pitches where match is going away not on a turning track.Dravid never had 6 fielders away after one boundary hit.Dhoni is ultra defensive captain If somebody attacks he spreads the field . Zaheer deserved a over after a wicket . regarding chennai we are comparing diff pitches and diff class of batsman Defensive attacking is not bs.Its just not about fields only its about mindset just look at clarke. Blame dhoni ? Moron should have been kicked out after 8-0 .No captain should be allowed to preside over 2 whitewashes. Everybody from ganguly,kapil,gavaskar have slamed his field placements and it was same in australia and england

[Crookbond]

Don't remember Dravid having 5 fielders on the field at the start of a new session immediately after us having 2 quick wickets and a new batsmen struggling for form coming into bat like we had for KP on day 2. Remember in Mumbai 2004, we had scored just 100 odd in 1st innings and yet RD was attacking , here we had 327 on the board andd Dhoni's field placements when they were 120 for 2 suggested as if England were running away with the game.

Similarly, our bowlers were not bowling like P Ojha (slow) {Kartik was faster through the air} and R Ashwin (half trackers) {Kumble/Harbhajan were sharper as well}. You are putting things out of context and comparing situations where the bowlers were different in effectiveness which is disingenuous. Tactics work as long as there are personnel to carry it - it looks great when it works and shoddy when it does not. Btw, was Cook defensive today in the first session of the morning when he was keeping fielders on the boundary for Gambhir? Panesar/Swann still picked up wickets - if MSD would've done it, there would be howlers. PS - I feel it is time for a change in captaincy but talking trash about in/out fields is barking down the wrong tree.

[jairamesh]

I can understand the need to call-up the likes Murli or similar quick spinners, but what's worrying is its seems Dhoni, Management, and Selectors have no clue about it. Even the bloody commentators were bleating on 24/7 about how fast Swann and Monty were bowling. Did the selectors and coaches not watch videos of Pak v Eng and SL v Eng??, this same issue also cropped up during the World T20. I really feel the Indian cricket team is just not street smart enough sometimes to recognize the weakness and strengths of the opposition. There is seems to be very obvious lack of astute strategic planning. And nothing personifies this with brainless selection of Bhajji.

[panther]

No good spinners on the horizon for India.

[Crookbond]

In/Out field are common on flat pitches where match is going away not on a turning track.Dravid never had 6 fielders away after one boundary hit.Dhoni is ultra defensive captain If somebody attacks he spreads the field . Zaheer deserved a over after a wicket . regarding chennai we are comparing diff pitches and diff class of batsman Defensive attacking is not bs.Its just not about fields only its about mindset just look at clarke. Blame dhoni ? Moron should have been kicked out after 8-0 .No captain should be allowed to preside over 2 whitewashes. Everybody from ganguly,kapil,gavaskar have slamed his field placements and it was same in australia and england

You would not get the point - am I talking about field placements in Australia/England or in India? I myself slammed his field placements in Australia/England! But, you are just carrying on your tirade (or probably frustration which is very much understandable). You need to keep yourself calm and think accurately. First, our bowlers did not bowl well - no field placement can help if your bowlers do not bowl well. Second, in/out fields are common in the SC - turn or no turn. Check out Pakistan against England or England against Sri Lanka even when they were in winning positions they had similar fields. I also notice that you are making this an argument why producing a certain number - 6 fielders on the boundary which means there are just 4 fielders in the circle of which one is a slip or a short fielder reducing to just 3 in the covers or on the leg side. Can you tell us when this setting happened for an appreciable period of time in this Test match?

[CG]

Similarly, our bowlers were not bowling like P Ojha (slow) {Kartik was faster through the air} and R Ashwin (half trackers) {Kumble/Harbhajan were sharper as well}. You are putting things out of context and comparing situations where the bowlers were different in effectiveness which is disingenuous. Tactics work as long as there are personnel to carry it - it looks great when it works and shoddy when it does not. Btw, was Cook defensive today in the first session of the morning when he was keeping fielders on the boundary for Gambhir? Panesar/Swann still picked up wickets - if MSD would've done it, there would be howlers. PS - I feel it is time for a change in captaincy but talking trash about in/out fields is barking down the wrong tree.

The same bowlers won us the last test.Basics of cricket remain the same no matter how diff the bowlers .You just cannot push everybody back after a boundary is hit Its a problem which has been pointed out in eng and aus and it is same here. In/Out fields are for situations and pitches and batsman.But with dhoni its Out /out .

[saneindian]

DM you are defending the indefensible. Dhoni's ultra defensive captaincy is a major reason for the downfall. Go back and watch the passage of play when Ojha took those 2 wickets and 30 minutes post tea on day 2. Thats where the game was lost. Sadly that has happened far too often in the last 12 months and has become a trend everytime the opposition is on top. Dhoni doesn't appear to have a plan B and waits for the batsman to make a mistake. We may blame the bowlers but a captain needs to bring the best out of his bowlers and Dhoni on crunch situations has failed to do that. If pointing that out is barking down the wrong tree, so be it and you may very well ignore such posts.

[CG]

Also I may add- Why dhoni did not bowl yuvi to kp for more when he has got him earlier . why did bhajji who is frsh bowled 21 overs compared to guys like ashwin and ojha who bowled 40+ overs after bowling 100 overs in last test why bhajji was brought at the tail only.

[Crookbond]

The same bowlers won us the last test.Basics of cricket remain the same no matter how diff the bowlers .You just cannot push everybody back after a boundary is hit Its a problem which has been pointed out in eng and aus and it is same here. In/Out fields are for situations and pitches and batsman.But with dhoni its Out /out .

The only part you have got right is the last 2 sentences - which is what I absolutely loathe. However, I did not find any major issue with the in/out field setting in this game. I can use the same bowler argument to suit my point viz. because the bowlers were bowling good enough he would attack but lets agree to disagree.

DM you are defending the indefensible. Dhoni's ultra defensive captaincy is a major reason for the downfall. Go back and watch the passage of play when Ojha took those 2 wickets and 30 minutes post tea on day 2. Thats where the game was lost. Sadly that has happened far too often in the last 12 months and has become a trend everytime the opposition is on top. Dhoni doesn't appear to have a plan B and waits for the batsman to make a mistake. We may blame the bowlers but a captain needs to bring the best out of his bowlers and Dhoni on crunch situations has failed to do that. If pointing that out is barking down the wrong tree, so be it and you may very well ignore such posts.

Unfortunately let me just repeat what I just said a couple of posts above PS - I feel it is time for a change in captaincy but talking trash about in/out fields is barking down the wrong tree. Having said that if you feel that by this bowling performance, a change in field will make us win Test matches good luck with that. If that was so (a major reason), I would think India should've performed much better in the Adelaide Test match. It was as pathetic as the rest 7 test matches. You should also realize that I appreciate your POV's even if I differ. It is just a healthy discussion - none of our views etc. are going to effect the team's performance, selection or strategy.