Do most Pakistanis hate Indians ?

[sandtest]

KR...as far as Thakrey is concerned it's a known fact his entire vote bank is based on Marathi Manus slogan. Nobody would risk vote bank and since Shivsena is a political unit, they are aware that regionalism/marathi manus will triumph over Nationalism. If Shivsena has only Nationalim as it's core philosophy, then they have to give-up politics and become a non-political organization like RSS. That's the difference bewteen Shivsena and RSS, and I will prefer later at any day. But wait, whom will you blame for all these, aren't we Indians are to be blamed, who vote for petty regional sentiments rather than Nationalistic sentiments?

[coffee_rules]

Most Pakistanis who matter hate India. Those who matter are the politicians, people in power, etc. I think, amongst common people, more than love not being there, it is the trust that is missing. Everything else becomes a facade. Indians don't trust Pakistanis..and the vice-versa might be true also. Also, the worrying fact is that culture of breeding hate in traditional muslim schools will take care of the current situation in future. So, whatever the intelligent is trying to mend, the future gen hatred is taken care of in schools (madrasas). So, we can be assured that the situation remans the same in our lifetime.

[kumble_rocks]

KR...as far as Thakrey is concerned it's a known fact his entire vote bank is based on Marathi Manus slogan. Nobody would risk vote bank and since Shivsena is a political unit, they are aware that regionalism/marathi manus will triumph over Nationalism. If Shivsena has only Nationalim as it's core philosophy, then they have to give-up politics and become a non-political organization like RSS. That's the difference bewteen Shivsena and RSS, and I will prefer later at any day. But wait, whom will you blame for all these, aren't we Indians are to be blamed, who vote for petty regional sentiments rather than Nationalistic sentiments?

It is one thing to vote for petty regional sentiment which I don't necessarily condone, but it's a whole different ball game to beat up people simply because they happen to emigrate to mumbai for better prospects. Do you condone beating of Kannadigas simply because they were successful resturanteurs or Gujaratis for being successful retailers or Biharis for taking railway exam in Mumbai and so on ... ? I am disputing the statement made by DR which you happen to agree which is "Even while being reactionary thackerey are million times more tolerant than these folks.."

[King Tendulkar]

Paks hate indians. That is why they keep attempting to kill us and launch wars against us. This is supported by majority of paks who view as kaffars across the border as the enemy. This is fuelled by their inferiority complex against as well

[Guest dada_rocks]

I nominate your post for the most humorous post of the week. Thackerey targets South Indians as well as North Indians- http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jul/15akd.htm [h3]Politicians, patriotism and pettiness[/h3] Atal Bihari Vajpayee continues to grow in stature. He recently told thespian Dilip Kumar that holding the Nishan-e-Imtiaz, Pakistan's highest civilian award, does not imply that his patriotism is less than that of others and no one has a right to suspect his fidelity to the nation. The famous star of yesteryears was given the award for, among other things, contributing to India-Pakistan friendship. In many ways, Vajpayee's bus journey to Lahore was part of this same act of friendship, and we all know that Pakistani leaders betrayed this act of trust. Yet, Vajpayee's act cannot be undone. Similarly, whatever contribution Dilip Kumar has made in the past will stay. And it is for these past contributions that he was given the award, all of which is part of history, even if the present is anything but friendly. So why is Dilip Kumar being targeted by the most abominable of political outfits, the Shiv Sena, and its leader Bal Thackeray? The Sena chief has asked Dilip Kumar to return the Nishan-e-Imtiaz as an act of patriotism. First questions first. Who the hell is Thackeray to ask for a show of patriotism? This demagogue, unfortunately hailed by many, has in his 30-odd years in public life been unpatriotic, preaching hatred against fellow Indians, all to boost his political life. Thackeray launched his political career by asking Maharashtrians to target South Indians simply because these non-Marathi-speaking people were taking away local jobs. Was not Thackeray's move anti-Constitution and anti-national? Was Thackeray's decree an act of patriotism, or was it a move that was more likely to cause India's balkanisation? The Sena thugs went on a witch hunt, targeting and beating up Kannadigas, many of whom were successful restaurateurs, and Tamilians and Malayalees who competed for clerical jobs alongside the Maharashtrians. The South Indian often got the job in Bombay simply because he worked harder and often spoke a smattering of English better than his Maharashtrian colleague. In his later years, Thackeray abused and targeted the Gujaratis (Hindus and Jains) who control most of Bombay's retail trade, and, of course, the Muslims, which continues till date. Forget not caring for fellow Indians, Thackeray does not even care for all Maharashtrians. Because by targeting the above-named communities, he placed Maharashtrians elsewhere at risk. Huge numbers of Maharashtrians reside in Bangalore and Belgaum in Karnataka, Thanjuvar in Tamil Nadu, and Baroda and Ahmedabad in Gujarat. Did Thackeray care that his actions in Bombay could hurt fellow Maharashtrians elsewhere? He did not, because as a politician, all that Thackeray cared about was winning power. The very fact that his anti-South Indian and anti-Gujarati stance turned anti-Muslim reflects political expediency. He needed all Hindu votes on an anti-Muslim plank. Thackeray's non-patriotic Sena killed a former Indian Air Force officer during the Bombay riots in December 1992, a Maharashtrian officer who took part in the 1965 war against Pakistan. Only because officer Chiplunkar's first name was Ismail. When the Kargil crisis broke out in late May, Dilip Kumar quietly contributed to the Army Welfare Fund. He did not mention this even when Sena goons questioned his patriotism. An intrepid press reporter leaked the story only a few days ago. Has Thackeray, who has amassed quite a fortune, contributed much? How come this 'patriot' never asked his children to join the armed forces? You can bet it is because Thackeray does not believe in dying for the country, but believes in others dying for the country while electing him. His sons have his empire to inherit and his shows to run, the latest being his daughter-in-law Smita producing a film. Strange that for someone who spoke of Marathi pride, his daughter-in-law has made a movie in Hindi, not Marathi. Is it because Marathi movies don't earn much? In fact, the Marathi movie industry is crying out for help, but did Thackeray, Smita or the state government hear them? Thackeray's patriotism is limited to abusing Pakistan, making ridiculous symbolic gestures, not doing anything substantial and questioning the loyalty of Indian Muslims. The last is truly despicable. Dilip Kumar was born Yusuf Khan in Peshawar, in undivided India. Any decent human being would treasure an award from the land of his birth, even if relations are strained, and Dilip Kumar does treasure memories of his childhood (who doesn't? Ask the NRIs). If Dilip Kumar can without a tinge of regret renounce his birthplace, then tomorrow he can renounce the land of his destiny -- India. In fact, by fighting to keep his award, Dilip Kumar has shown that he is a great human being who treasures his birthplace just a little less than the country of his citizenship. Incidentally, even Morarji Desai received the Nishan-e-Imtiaz, so how come the Sena did not ask his descendants to return it to Pakistan. The reason is clearly the communal angle. Thackeray is a worried man. Maharashtra goes to the polls soon and the Sena's popularity has plummeted. In the last four years and more, the only tangible achievement of the Sena-BJP government has been to change the name of Bombay to Mumbai. Great! Lacking issues to whip up the communal sentiments that helped him win the election in 1995, Thackeray found one in Dilip Kumar aka Yusuf Khan. This only reveals Thackeray's lack of patriotism. Because the Kargil war's greatest achievement has been to foster an incredible unity among the people of India (something our horrible politicians will not really like). Our martyrs include people of all faiths -- Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian and Buddhist. In one brave operation, as reported in The Indian Express, mostly Muslim soldiers of the 11 Grenadiers, shouting Allah-o-Akbar, scaled a peak and captured it from the Pakistanis. The operation cost 11 lives, all Muslim, but every Indian mourned their deaths while suffused with pride at their gallant operation. These martyrs have only increased the desire in all of us never again to allow communal violence in our country. Similarly, the death of a Dalit soldier of a village in Gujarat brought the upper castes to his residence to pay homage, something they had never done earlier. Then there are martyrs from regions that many Indian don't even think about. Nagaland (the Naga Regiment, one of our youngest regiments, has come out in flying colours), Assam, Meghalaya (one martyr's father's response on hearing about his son's death was to ask the brave jawans to continue the war without fear), Ladakh, and so on. There is a moving story of how a United Liberation Front of Asom member left his guerilla outfit because he refused to carry out his chief's order to help the Pakistanis. "I am an Assamese and an Indian," he was quoted as saying. Unfortunately, some politicians who thrive on hate and distrust among communities and people cannot be too happy about this. Such pan-Indian bonding hurts their electoral chances. So they make petty demands, such as asking a well-known and respected figure to prove his patriotism. The message Thackeray wants to send out is that the patriotism of Muslims is suspect, that Hindus in the times of Kargil must not trust their fellow Muslims. All for cheap politics! Thackeray should worry more about his useless government and its inability to deliver the goods rather than pick on a great Indian (who happens to be a Muslim) and who has proved his patriotism over the years. Indian Muslims have sacrificed their lives for India, they don't need some damn politician's stamp of approval.

I guess I have commented zillion times on this BS.. right now thackrey's pakistan/muslim love is being discussed wonder what's the relevance of regionalism garbage in this debate

[kumble_rocks]

No it is not ok to be a thug. But it is also not ok to type cast him as a religious thug and go shouting something on the lines of "look Thackery ... hindu fanatic ...who kills muslims ... etc etc etc ... "

I have always maintained this nutter thackerey has caused lot of harm to Hindus as well. Why don't you answer this question in a more precise and concise manner. Do you believe that Thackerey ( I am specifically talking about him ) is million times more tolerant ? Yes or No please ?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Is it okay to be a equal opportunity thug who doesnt discriminate based on religion ? And while we are at ' date=' do you agree with DR's assessment that "[b']Even while being reactionary thackerey/togadia are million times more tolerant than these folks.." After all he specifically targeted our pals from North karnataka. Trust me, even "Joshis" and "Raos" of the world were not spared if they spoke Kannada in Mumbai,:D

I wud say get over it.. bread/butter driven regionalism is still in play ( as I speak asamese have killed few more biharis, no other regional grup is more persecuted than bihari ) we are discussing thackrey's pakistan/muslim love so if u have anything to contribute on that please do.. this diversionary tactics of steering debate in some other direction is getting old ..

[kumble_rocks]

I guess I have commented zillion times on this BS.. right now thackrey's pakistan/muslim love is being discussed wonder what's the relevance of regionalism garbage in this debate

Bheembhai , here we go ! This has how our pal starts degenerating every thread. Very soon , he will in the zone wherein personal abuses will start from his side. Even my blood boiled when I saw this poster commenting about Thackerey being more tolerant million times over and yet I tried to refrain from using words like BS, Moron etc

[Guest dada_rocks]

I have always maintained this nutter thackerey has caused lot of harm to Hindus as well. Why don't you answer this question in a more precise and concise manner. Do you believe that Thackerey ( I am specifically talking about him ) is million times more tolerant ? Yes or No please ?

yes he is.. regional wars due to bread/butter issue have happend in past and died when the grievance got addressed.. here we are talking about sthg else.. As far as togadia is concerned he is billion times more tolerant than these folks and moreover he is not given to regional bias either..

[kumble_rocks]

I wud say get over it.. bread/butter driven regionalism is still in play ( as I speak asamese have killed few more biharis' date=' no other regional grup is more persecuted than bihari ) we are discussing thackrey's pakistan/muslim love so if u have anything to contribute on that please do.. this diversionary tactics of steering debate in some other direction is getting old ..[/quote'] You shifted the goal post by commenting on Thackerey's tolerance. I would have kept quiet had you mentioned only Togadia. If you edit your post and not include Thackerey , I will cease to comment on this issue.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Bheembhai ' date=' their you go ! This has how our pal starts degenerating every thread. Very soon , he will in the zone wherein personal abuses will start from his side. Even my blood boiled when I saw this poster commenting about Thackerey being more tolerant million times over and yet I tried to refrain from using words like BS, Moron etc[/quote'] Aren't u touchy mr, so what is sanctioned words I will put ur thread in so and so .. U do BS for sure and everytime run away when I corner u to substanatitae ur claim.. ur deliberate attempt to screw the subject of debate in every thread is BS.. why don't u start ur own thread for regionalism debate.. If u can't keep urself confined to the topic at hand stay clear of it.. it's so simple..and if u do come up with smart alec comments like I will put ur threads ther and here be prepared for ur words to be adjectified by BS..

[Guest dada_rocks]

You shifted the goal post by commenting on Thackerey's tolerance. I would have kept quiet had you mentioned only Togadia. If you edit your post and not include Thackerey ' date=' I will cease to comment on this issue.[/quote'] Thackrey was broached up by somoene in this india/pakistan debate and I commented about his tolerance over religious bias.. now go retrace ur post have u contributed even zlich on that count.. u broached up another bogey of regionalism whihc is nto being discussed here , is it..

[kumble_rocks]

Aren't u touchy mr, so what is sanctioned words I will put ur thread in so and so .. U do BS for sure and everytime run away when I corner u to substanatitae ur claim.. ur deliberate attempt to screw the subject of debate in every thread is BS.. why don't u start ur own thread for regionalism debate.. If u can't keep urself confined to the topic at hand stay clear of it.. it's so simple..and if u do come up with smart alec comments like I will put ur threads ther and here be prepared for ur words to be adjectified by BS..

How come its only you who resorts to abuse. I disagree with Sandtest and Bheembhai , but take great care not to get personal and maintain a civil discourse and they also reciprocate by being civil to me ? Why is it that you are allergic to civil discussion ?

[sandtest]

KR....to be fair it's not about regionalism debate ( although I am against petty regional mindsets) The debate was basically about so called right wing hindu extremist and great moderate enlightened Pakis... You may start a regional debate thread, I am sure not only Marathis but Tamil, Telugu, UP-Biharis , Malayalis all having regional sentiments will comment.

[kumble_rocks]

Thackrey was broached up by somoene in this india/pakistan debate and I commented about his tolerance over religious bias.. now go retrace ur post have u contributed even zlich on that count.. u broached up another bogey of regionalism whihc is nto being discussed here ' date=' is it..[/quote'] And I am responding to your comment that he was million times more tolerant by stating that he is not !

[Lurker]

ICF hit formula number 1: To have a thread running into multi replies, include Pakistan/Muslim as a cornerstone of topic at hand. I seriously think such topics should be banned outright since it is doing nothing but either spread hatred and/or making the General Discussion supremely one-track. I doubt most posters log into GD section to see a few just change the GD into a anti-Islam, or an Anti-Pakistan tirade. A suggestion, just as we have a GD why not have a seperate division for Pakistan/Islam where such topics could be dealt it. That way many of us, if not most, can stay away from this hate-mongering? Just my chawaani. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

KR...as far as Thakrey is concerned it's a known fact his entire vote bank is based on Marathi Manus slogan. Nobody would risk vote bank and since Shivsena is a political unit, they are aware that regionalism/marathi manus will triumph over Nationalism. If Shivsena has only Nationalim as it's core philosophy, then they have to give-up politics and become a non-political organization like RSS. That's the difference bewteen Shivsena and RSS, and I will prefer later at any day. But wait, whom will you blame for all these, aren't we Indians are to be blamed, who vote for petty regional sentiments rather than Nationalistic sentiments?

nice assessment.. As we speak Biharis are being killed by assamese every day.. I don't see these people discussing that ever but somehow thackerey's deeds of 20 years is relevant in every debate irrespective of topic....

[Guest dada_rocks]

ICF hit formula number 1: To have a thread running into multi replies, include Pakistan/Muslim as a cornerstone of topic at hand. I seriously think such topics should be banned outright since it is doing nothing but either spread hatred and/or making the General Discussion supremely one-track. I doubt most posters log into GD section to see a few just change the GD into a anti-Islam, or an Anti-Pakistan tirade. A suggestion, just as we have a GD why not have a seperate division for Pakistan/Islam where such topics could be dealt it. That way many of us, if not most, can stay away from this hate-mongering? Just my chawaani. xxx

I can feel ur pain..:giggle:

[Guest dada_rocks]

And I am responding to your comment that he was million times more tolerant by stating that he is not !

so far all u have provided is he did sthg in past over regional matters.... Past tense and present tense ....... U have provided litrally zilch on issue at hand though..

[kumble_rocks]

nice assessment.. As we speak Biharis are being killed by assamese every day.. I don't see these people discussing that ever but somehow thackerey's deeds of 20 years is relevant in every debate irrespective of topic....

Biharis being killed in Assam everyday reflects very badly on Assam . You don't see any poster here who will condone such actions. Why don't you start such threads and educate us more so that we all can become aware of the plight of Biharis in North East. And while we are at it , you failed to criticize Shiv Sena goons for beating up Biharis who came to Mumbai to take railway exam. Talk about double standards.