Raghav_12 Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/fir-against-ashis-nandy-after-he-says-obcs-scs-sts-most-corrupt/1065287/0 Sociologist Ashis Nandy today kicked up a storm with his remark that "most of the corrupt come from the OBCs, SCs and STs". He immediately came under attack from one and all. While BSP chief Mayawati demanded his arrest and an end to his participation at the Jaipur Literature Festival where he made the remarks, the SP slammed Nandy for his "casteist bias". LJP chief Ram Vilas Paswan also demanded action against him. Hours after the remark, an FIR was lodged against Nandy and police said they would look into the matter. Earlier, participating in a session at the festival, Nandy stunned the audience when he said: "It is a fact that most of the corrupt come from OBCs, SC and STs." Co-panelists disagreed with him and he was booed by the crowd. Later in the evening, Nandy tried to clarify his remark and said he had been misunderstood. "I was, in fact, supporting the cause of those who are marginalised and those who are in minority and those who are oppressed. I have spent all my life supporting their causes and will continue doing it." He said he actually meant that if people from OBC, SC and ST indulge in corruption, it is "corruption indeed" while those from upper castes go scot-free. Objecting to Nandy's remark, Mayawati demanded that the Congress-led Rajasthan government arrest him immediately. She asked organisers of the festival to stop his participation there. In a statement, Ram Vilas Paswan sought registration of a case against Nandy under the SC & ST Act. "The remarks of Nandy that people belonging to OBC, SC and ST communities are the most corrupt reflects his mental bankruptcy," he said. With ENS, New Delhi Not saying that what he has said is not offensive, but are there enough grounds to book an FIR and register cases with potential imprisonment of 10 years? - Isn't in India freedom of speech is increasingly under threat? What Mr. Nandy did in this case was speaking his opinion which might be and might not be based on empirical evidences. But a case of criminal offence is way too much and should be considered as an attack on individual's freedom of speech. I am concerned that other than politicians of main stream parties, nobody can express their opinions freely on relatively contentious subjects without risking being dragged into criminal cases. Facebook arrests which keep happening all the time are another example. Many of the posts on this very forum would have invited arrests if theses posts/comments had got greater attention or were published in mainstream media. - Isn't it misuse of SC/ST act? Certain upper casts are stereotyped as oppressors, bandits, rapists and what not, in all social and digital media but nobody even raises eyebrows. Here on one statement there seems to be so much controversy. That's what happens when you create laws without consideration for possible misuse.
Stuge Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 :hysterical: kise kise chizo par fir book kar lete hain .
Raghav_12 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Posted January 27, 2013 :hysterical: kise kise chizo par fir book kar lete hain . This is seriously disturbing trend towards curbing common men's rights of voicing their opinion and strikes at the core of democracy. Government machinery continues to display week-kneed reaction. You can gather a crowd of 50 hooligans and get a case registered for anything which you are not pleased with. Disgusting.
gaurav92 Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 This is seriously disturbing trend towards curbing common men's rights of voicing their opinion and strikes at the core of democracy. Government machinery continues to display week-kneed reaction. You can gather a crowd of 50 hooligans and get a case registered for anything which you are not pleased with. Disgusting. Agree.
yoda Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 There is no freedom of speech in India. Among other things, you can get arrested for: 1. Accusing MPs/MLAs 2. Inciting violence 3. Hurting religious sentiments . and the list goes on and on. of course this only if you don't have the backing of the ruling party at center or state. If you have the backing of the ruling party, you can get away with anything. Look at Jagan of AP, soon after he had issues with the ruling party he was raided and arrested. This is our India. If you want to be safe, just STFU and mind your business.
King Tendulkar Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 There is no freedom of speech in India. Among other things, you can get arrested for: 1. Accusing MPs/MLAs 2. Inciting violence 3. Hurting religious sentiments . and the list goes on and on. of course this only if you don't have the backing of the ruling party at center or state. Well thats fair enough
yoda Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Well thats fair enough Well, the govt. can claim your words will incite violence and put you in jail. Case in point was Varun Gandhi's speech a few years back.
King Tendulkar Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Well' date=' the govt. can claim your words will incite violence and put you in jail. Case in point was Varun Gandhi's speech a few years back.[/quote'] well yes they will misuse the law. but they misuse all laws for their own purposes, does not mean the law is wrong
DomainK Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 :hysterical: kise kise chizo par fir book kar lete hain . And when a common man reaches police station bleeding or when a raped woman approaches police, they refuse to even taken a complaint.
Lurker Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 3 persons are noted as Father of modern day Jharkhand. They are - AK Rai, Shibu Soren & Vinod Mahto. AK Rai was once asked if he was happy the way Jharkhand has gone, and if there is a propensity amongst the tribal leaders to get corrupted easily. He agreed. His point was people from such background often do not see opulence and are rather corrupted easily when they have the world at their feet. Folks from Jharkhand would agree. In a matter of a couple of decades Sorens, Mundas, Marandis are now some of the most corrupt leaders in India. What Ashish Nandy has said does have its merits. More importantly it is a sociologist making such comments. It is high time we gave respect to streams like Sociology, specially in an era like today where our society is bursting at the seams. No need to be defensive all the time, clearly that has not helped.
akshayxyz Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 I kind of agree with his statement in title, a bit reworded - people who do not need reservation-system, but use/abuse it are more likely to be corrupt/nikammey.
ganeshran Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 - Isn't it misuse of SC/ST act? Certain upper casts are stereotyped as oppressors, bandits, rapists and what not, in all social and digital media but nobody even raises eyebrows. Here on one statement there seems to be so much controversy. That's what happens when you create laws without consideration for possible misuse. Where is the equivalence? No one issued a statement or gave the impression that all "upper" caste people are corrupt etc. Media perpetrates dozens of lazy stereotypes, but I dont see how that applies to this particular situation
Raghav_12 Posted January 28, 2013 Author Posted January 28, 2013 Where is the equivalence? No one issued a statement or gave the impression that all "upper" caste people are corrupt etc. Media perpetrates dozens of lazy stereotypes, but I dont see how that applies to this particular situation You perectly exemplify a person who learns about society in a laboratory and through the eassays of intellectuals who had learnt about society in similar laboratories. I am surprised that you never heard anything being told about upper castes so openly in country as Mr. Nandy did. Just as a beginner, you can refer to following popular slogan which BSP long used: Tilak, Tarazu aur Talwar, Inko maaro jutey chaar Shouldn't there have been a FIR for these slogans as well? But there lies the catch - there is no act which could have been used here to book a person as easily as SC act has been used to book Mr. Nandy. Can you tell why there shouldn't have been an FIR against such slogans? In my opinion there shouldn't be a law which leads to oppression of a part of the society even if this part of the society is perceived as oppressor in general. Such arrangement leads to failure as happened in case of communism where owners would always be considered oppressor and workers would always be oppressed. Anyways, I'll not comment further on caste system and related issues. I created this thread to discuss growing threat to freedom of speech in indian democracy.
Lurker Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 You perectly exemplify a person who learns about society in a laboratory and through the eassays of intellectuals who had learnt about society in similar laboratories. I am surprised that you never heard anything being told about upper castes so openly in country as Mr. Nandy did. Just as a beginner, you can refer to following popular slogan which BSP long used: Tilak, Tarazu aur Talwar, Inko maaro jutey chaar Shouldn't there have been a FIR for these slogans as well? But there lies the catch - there is no act which could have been used here to book a person as easily as SC act has been used to book Mr. Nandy. Can you tell why there shouldn't have been an FIR against such slogans? In my opinion there shouldn't be a law which leads to oppression of a part of the society even if this part of the society is perceived as oppressor in general. Such arrangement leads to failure as happened in case of communism where owners would always be considered oppressor and workers would always be oppressed. Anyways, I'll not comment further on caste system and related issues. I created this thread to discuss growing threat to freedom of speech in indian democracy. In Bihar the slogan of Laloo was. BhooRa BaaL saaf karo Bh - Bhumihar Ra - Rajput B - Brahmin L - Lala (Kayastha) Cant be anymore blatant than that.
ganeshran Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 You perectly exemplify a person who learns about society in a laboratory and through the eassays of intellectuals who had learnt about society in similar laboratories. And you depict someone who conjures up strawmen in his head to act as an apologist for all the scum in society. I am surprised that you never heard anything being told about upper castes so openly in country as Mr. Nandy did. Just as a beginner, you can refer to following popular slogan which BSP long used: Tilak, Tarazu aur Talwar, Inko maaro jutey chaar Shouldn't there have been a FIR for these slogans as well? But there lies the catch - there is no act which could have been used here to book a person as easily as SC act has been used to book Mr. Nandy. Can you tell why there shouldn't have been an FIR against such slogans? Aah, the age old tactic of shifting the goalposts. From general society to a political party which was formed specifically against the upper castes in society. What next? Are you going to quote VHP manifesto to prove how muslims are percieved in Indian society? There is no systemic bias against upper castes in Modern Indian society like you suggested. Sure, there are professional disadvantages that the youth have to face because of widespread reservation in government jobs and now even promotions, but there is no societal bias which exists. Dalits face this even today, where they are denied equal standing in society and looked down upon, all this while having to contend with the general image of moochers and freeloaders that has been created by the same media/news channels you were complaining about 2 posts back. And that too despite being kept at the fringe of society for centuries and generations upon generations being confined to menial tasks without being afforded the right to education or vocational training. In my opinion there shouldn't be a law which leads to oppression of a part of the society even if this part of the society is perceived as oppressor in general. Such arrangement leads to failure as happened in case of communism where owners would always be considered oppressor and workers would always be oppressed. Anyways, I'll not comment further on caste system and related issues. I created this thread to discuss growing threat to freedom of speech in indian democracy. I do support freedom of speech and if Nandy is arrested, I will completely be opposed to the step. However freedom from prosecution does not imply freedom from criticism and everyone has the same right to protest against his blanket statement that he had when he made it.
Desi Cartman Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Reminds me of the day when a clerk in my dad's office went to the police to file an FIR claiming that he had passed casteist remarks and told him MC BC etc. I read the letter and they guy went on to say a lot of BS. My dad got a call from the top cop of the town as he had to make an arrest within 24 hrs because caste was in the FIR. Some lahori logic that a person can get arrested for verbal abuse. Anyway, when my dad met him at the cop's office later that day, the guy started crying saying that some union walas had asked him to write all the BS because they were against some of the transfers my dad was ordering. Look at the 2 victims here, my father and had he not known some people in the police he could have been arrested for some random complaint, and the poor guy who was used because he was a SC.
DomainK Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Reminds me of the day when a clerk in my dad's office went to the police to file an FIR claiming that he had passed casteist remarks and told him MC BC etc. I read the letter and they guy went on to say a lot of BS. My dad got a call from the top cop of the town as he had to make an arrest within 24 hrs because caste was in the FIR. Some lahori logic that a person can get arrested for verbal abuse. Anyway, when my dad met him at the cop's office later that day, the guy started crying saying that some union walas had asked him to write all the BS because they were against some of the transfers my dad was ordering. Look at the 2 victims here, my father and had he not known some people in the police he could have been arrested for some random complaint, and the poor guy who was used because he was a SC. That's very sad. Caste politics happens a lot in rural India. People shamelessly play the caste card and act like victims on small things.
Crookbond Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 That's very sad. Caste politics happens a lot in rural India. People shamelessly play the caste card and act like victims on small things. The major issue due to these false implications genuine cases get lost in this muck.
Lurker Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 And you depict someone who conjures up strawmen in his head to act as an apologist for all the scum in society. Aah, the age old tactic of shifting the goalposts. From general society to a political party which was formed specifically against the upper castes in society. What next? Are you going to quote VHP manifesto to prove how muslims are percieved in Indian society? There is no systemic bias against upper castes in Modern Indian society like you suggested. Sure, there are professional disadvantages that the youth have to face because of widespread reservation in government jobs and now even promotions, but there is no societal bias which exists. Dalits face this even today, where they are denied equal standing in society and looked down upon, all this while having to contend with the general image of moochers and freeloaders that has been created by the same media/news channels you were complaining about 2 posts back. And that too despite being kept at the fringe of society for centuries and generations upon generations being confined to menial tasks without being afforded the right to education or vocational training. I do support freedom of speech and if Nandy is arrested, I will completely be opposed to the step. However freedom from prosecution does not imply freedom from criticism and everyone has the same right to protest against his blanket statement that he had when he made it. Around 120 seats in Lok Sabha can not be contested by anyone aside from SC/ST. if that is not systemic against forward caste, dont quite know what is. And yes it also deprives the BC from contesting these seats but that hardly makes things better for anyone.
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