Hail Dale - It's time to acknowledge that Steyn is among the all-time great fast bowlers

[Insidious]

isnt this true for other things like normal swing ? or spin ? everything you described is skill in itself!

As i said getting Reverse swing is not a skill. if your length is fuller and if you are pacy, and pitch is abrasive you will get Reverse swing at some point. But taking wickets through reverse swing requires skill and experience, that is what Steyn has. Like setting up the batsman, not allowing batsman to see the shiny side, great control along pace, that is pure skill and expertise. Not all have them. That makes steyn special

[Old guy]

As i said getting Reverse swing is not a skill. if your length is fuller and if you are pacy, and pitch is abrasive you will get Reverse swing at some point. But taking wickets through reverse swing requires skill and experience, that is what Steyn has. Like setting up the batsman, not allowing batsman to see the shiny side, great control along pace, that is pure skill and expertise. Not all have them. That makes steyn special

i can agree with this also not every one gets same amount of reverse or from same angle or at same time some bowlers are just better at it and some type of actions just suit it more ..steyn is just best in most areas so he is lethal

[Insidious]

anderson in india and against pak (in abu dhabi) bowled in low 130's and got reverse and same with bhuvi in this recent test series

This is Anderson's speed in Kolkata test in 1st innings.

48.4 to Kohli, 137.2 kph, edged and gone, Anderson has snaffled Kohli, reward for a probing spell! The ball flew low off the edge, not dissimilar to the Tendulkar chance in Anderson's previous over, but this time Swann got his fingers just underneath it, an excellent catch 136/4 74.1 to Tendulkar, 134.7 kph, edged and what a catch! What a take down low with one hand and straight after drinks Tendulkar falls. It was a length ball that just shaped away from off stump, Tendulkar only came half-forward and got a healthy edge which flew down low to Prior's right, he got down quickly and claimed a beauty 230/6 88.3 to Ashwin, 141.9 kph, through him and bowled! Ashwin loses middle and off stumps, late on the delivery that shaped back a little into the pads. Trying to play from the crease again, Ashwin plopped forward and the new ball skidded onto him and hurried through his defence, he was playing a little across it 268/7

How it is low 130's please explain me? Here he swung it both ways by shifting the shiny side and bowled with healthy pace

[Old guy]

This is Anderson's speed in Kolkata test in 1st innings. How it is low 130's please explain me? Here he swung it both ways by shifting the shiny side and bowled with healthy pace

dude these are some deliveries you can check his average and it was always low 130's just because he bowled little quicker in one spell and that too some deliveries does not make him quick but he did get reverse when he bowled slower too it was nothing to do with him bowling 5 k's quicker but yeah it did make him more lethal we can agree with that

[Insidious]

Did it looks like low 130's :giggle:

[Old guy]

Did it looks like low 130's :giggle:

i cannot see anything about anderson in this link but trust me i atched whole series and he was never quick mostly upped pace here and there but many of his spell where he got reverse were not quick and 4-5 kmph should not effect how ball reverses it should make things harder for batsman but anderson has shown in past he can reverse ball even at lower pace

[Insidious]

dude these are some deliveries you can check his average and it was always low 130's just because he bowled little quicker in one spell and that too some deliveries does not make him quick but he did get reverse when he bowled slower too it was nothing to do with him bowling 5 k's quicker but yeah it did make him more lethal we can agree with that

As clear from the hawkeye given above, at times he bowled short spell where hovering around 140 mark which is enough if you have requisite control

[Old guy]

As clear from the hawkeye given above' date=' at times he bowled short spell where hovering around 140 mark which is enough if you have requisite control[/quote'] btw his average was 136 or 135 according to same hawkeye stats i am gonna check other innings nad matches too

[Insidious]

i cannot see anything about anderson in this link but trust me i atched whole series and he was never quick mostly upped pace here and there but many of his spell where he got reverse were not quick and 4-5 kmph should not effect how ball reverses it should make things harder for batsman but anderson has shown in past he can reverse ball even at lower pace

Go to the customise hawkeye option and select India 1st innings, and go to bowl speed pane and you will get it. Avg speed 85.4 mph and top speed 89.4 mph. Is this what you called trundling?

[Old guy]

in 2nd innings average is 134 in first test his average was even less ...i can check others but he obviously just bowled few bowls near 140 otherwise was strictly around 135

[Old guy]

Go to the customise hawkeye option and select India 1st innings' date=' and go to bowl speed pane and you will get it. Avg speed 85.4 mph and top speed 89.4 mph. Is this what you called trundling?[/quote'] in first match its 83 mph and its not 140 k by any means and did i call him trundler ? please no need to put words in my mouth i never said he was trundlering i said he was mostly bowling in low 130's rather than 140 k like you make it sound like and even his quickest match average is 85 mph while in slower match its around 83 mph hardly proves that reverse need pace

[Old guy]

BTW another interesting stat his speed mostly with new ball has been 86 MPH while with older ball he bowled slower you can check in this haweye only so am i really that wrong in saying he even got reverse when bowling around 135 ?

[Insidious]

btw his average was 136 or 135 according to same hawkeye stats i am gonna check other innings nad matches too

This average pace is still good enough. if you have still doubt lets compare it with that reverse swinging masterclass shown by shami against windies in that very same venue Avg-86.4 best 89.8 mph , quite similar to anderson bowling speed

[Old guy]

This average pace is still good enough. if you have still doubt lets compare it with that reverse swinging masterclass shown by shami against windies in that very same venue Avg-86.4 best 89.8 mph , quite similar to anderson bowling speed

dude...no one is disputing bowling at more pace helps you be more successful specially with reverse as ball tails in late and more pace is better but what i am saying is its wrong to say that reverse only happens with high pace...does it make any sense ? i have seen bhuvi reverse the ball in this recent english series and he was never bowling close to 140 was he ?

[Insidious]

in first match its 83 mph and its not 140 k by any means and did i call him trundler ? please no need to put words in my mouth i never said he was trundlering i said he was mostly bowling in low 130's rather than 140 k like you make it sound like and even his quickest match average is 85 mph while in slower match its around 83 mph hardly proves that reverse need pace

Which 1st match? i am talking about 3rd match, the 1st innings of kolkata test, where is avg pace is 85mph + , with top speed of 89 mph. The 1st test in ahmedabad he looked ordinary, pace was down, in that umesh yadav was best among both the sides

[Old guy]

Which 1st match? i am talking about 3rd match' date=' the 1st innings of kolkata test, where is avg pace is 85mph + , with top speed of 89 mph. The 1st test in ahmedabad he looked ordinary, pace was down, in that umesh yadav was best among both the sides[/quote'] even in other matches his average normally was 85 in first inning and 84 in 2nd inning and like i said his pace was quick with new ball so many times when he got reverse he was bowling around 135 and not 140 like you make it sound also what about bhuvi in first test in this recent english series ?

[Insidious]

dude...no one is disputing bowling at more pace helps you be more successful specially with reverse as ball tails in late and more pace is better but what i am saying is its wrong to say that reverse only happens with high pace...does it make any sense ? i have seen bhuvi reverse the ball in this recent english series and he was never bowling close to 140 was he ?

No you are not getting me, you can still reverse ball at 130+ ks, but it will not allow the ball to swing late, which makes it less threatening. As far as bhuvi case, he was very accurate, keep on probing around off. The English batsmen were at p*ss poor form, and fell for whatever little reverse swing Bhuvi is getting. I think you are talking about trent bridge test, where major damage was done by Ishant and bhuvi just took some lower order wicket like stokes etc. with reverse swing

[Old guy]

No you are not getting me' date=' you can still reverse ball at 130+ ks, but it will not allow the ball to swing late, which makes it less threatening. As far as bhuvi case, he was very accurate, keep on probing around off. The English batsmen were at p*ss poor form, and fell for whatever little reverse swing Bhuvi is getting. I think you are talking about trent bridge test, where major damage was done by Ishant and bhuvi just took some lower order wicket like stokes etc. with reverse swing[/quote'] that is what i am saying also i have heard some pakistani bowlers say that its because of round arm action that ball dips in late .. yes i am .sorry that i forgot name of test its bit late here but thats what i am saying no? that you can get reverse at less pace but it wont be as threatening and steyn some how has everything he bowls full and has pace and also his action suits reverse more than others and he is also very skiddy so he is deadly with reverse

[Old guy]

anyway i am gonna sleep i think we pretty much agree about this topic .:cantstop:

[Insidious]

even in other matches his average normally was 85 in first inning and 84 in 2nd inning and like i said his pace was quick with new ball so many times when he got reverse he was bowling around 135 and not 140 like you make it sound also what about bhuvi in first test in this recent english series ?

Its not that he was always bowling 140+, its only the odd one that he bowled at high 130s to 140s that did the trick. I mentioned it earlier also-

48.4 to Kohli, 137.2 kph, edged and gone, Anderson has snaffled Kohli, reward for a probing spell! The ball flew low off the edge, not dissimilar to the Tendulkar chance in Anderson's previous over, but this time Swann got his fingers just underneath it, an excellent catch 136/4 74.1 to Tendulkar, 134.7 kph, edged and what a catch! What a take down low with one hand and straight after drinks Tendulkar falls. It was a length ball that just shaped away from off stump, Tendulkar only came half-forward and got a healthy edge which flew down low to Prior's right, he got down quickly and claimed a beauty 230/6 88.3 to Ashwin, 141.9 kph, through him and bowled! Ashwin loses middle and off stumps, late on the delivery that shaped back a little into the pads. Trying to play from the crease again, Ashwin plopped forward and the new ball skidded onto him and hurried through his defence, he was playing a little across it 268/7

More than speed his ability to hide the ball, thus not allowing the batsman to decipher which way it will go works for him. It goes same with zaheer. But 135+ speed is a must.