India, Ever The Reluctant Victors

[Dhondy]

There is a thin line between possessing killer instinct and being deriding/cheap. The former is a good quality, the latter is not. Many posts have crossed that line. If you calm down, and see you will see it. On the other hand, maybe you choose not to.

Yup, choose not to. Never had any time for missionaries. Lurker, my issue was not with you glorifying the current lot, but with denigrating the likes of Sachin and Dravid. They are as ruthless as they come. They want to win more than any other cricketers I know, and would have done so consistently, had they been blessed with the fast bowlers we currently possess. Such is their aura, that opponents dare not sledge them. They know that they will receive a reply in kind....with the bat, in form of a mountain of runs. Incredibly tough, those two. I see the current lot have imbibed a lot of lessons from them in mental toughness, and in addition, have married that with a bit of fist pumping type of histrionics. That's fine, as long as the marriage lasts. As soon as you do the verbals, but are quivering inside, as Zaheer was, in that WC final of 2003, you are in trouble. Please note how your favourite player Dhoni conducts himself on the field. No histrionics, no baring of fangs, just a rock solid, calm disposition that the opposition can never break though. Pakistani players sleep tonight in fear of him, of what lies inside him. Hope you get the point.

[Lurker]

You are not battle scarred. You were not on SN. You will not understand why we do this. Let our cricketers be gracious in defeat and victory. As fans, we will do as they did unto us. The Pak fans deserve what they are getting and believe me, the stuff on here is pretty mild compared to what used to be dished out 2 years ago. Ask anyone who was on SN.

Gambo, I am unable to understand that point of view. Okay admitted that I was not there on SN but how can it be justified that since other side was cr@p we have now turned into cr@p ourselves? Heck for all you know the other side can look at you and say "We were cr@p and now we have turned you into cr@p".

Coming back to the OP, good writeup Dhondy as usual. Indian media has been quite gracious about the whole affair and has slightly downplayed our win. We absolutely outplayed Pak not once but twice and as bumper said, despite their players' experience in domestic 20/20 for 2+ years, we beat them not once but twice. Cricket was not the winner, India were. We are world champs because our world cup winning bunch outplayed Pak's 11 and not because Pak made mistakes or we were lucky.

I can not find fault with what you have said, just as I can not find fault if some Indian media chooses to be magnanimous in the victory. When you talk of Indian media you are essentially talking of 10,000 identities. Just as you have a "Cricket was victor", surely you yourself have read the "Ranchi ne fatah kiya Karachi". Point being we have media of all sorts and there are some that are going over the top and then some who are understating. xxx

[fineleg]

Gambit, Even if i have not seen "SN" battles (what is SN?), ive seen others. This is just internet, you are not going to make MP & kablooee feel sadder becos u post something. You can be deriding and drive them away, if thats ur goal. But that is nothing but immature reaction to our win. Celebrating our win wholeheartedly does not include ridiculing a well-played Pak team in the tournament. Pak played excellent in tourney. India played better than them overall when it came to it.

[Gambit]

Gambit, Even if i have not seen "SN" battles (what is SN?), ive seen others. This is just internet, you are not going to make MP & kablooee feel sadder becos u post something. You can be deriding and drive them away, if thats ur goal. But that is nothing but immature reaction to our win. Celebrating our win wholeheartedly does not include ridiculing a well-played Pak team in the tournament. Pak played excellent in tourney. India played better than them overall when it came to it.

Gambo' date= I am unable to understand that point of view. Okay admitted that I was not there on SN but how can it be justified that since other side was cr@p we have now turned into cr@p ourselves? Heck for all you know the other side can look at you and say "We were cr@p and now we have turned you into cr@p".

Everyone who uses internet forums knows that in order to take opposing views and read up on views of opposing fans, you have to be mightily thick skinned. If you think we went over the top here, you should see what happens on football forums. My intention is not to drive away MP and kablooe but their presence here is not going to make me hold back my emotions. Sport, on the internet especially, is about bragging rights. I am happy that most of us celebrated this glorious win unabashedly and made fun of retards like Afridi who sledged our cricketers in the past and generally came across as obnoxious. 99% of us did not say anything denigrating about Misbah because he played well. Knowing that Pak fans would not have offered us the same graciousness is why we are celebrating the way we are. I have seen and met enought Pak fans in my life to know how passionate they are about this rivalry(like us) and I know that when they win, they leave no stone unturned, from downright jingoism to making fun of our team, when it comes to celebrating. Also, as Dhondy mentioned a few weeks back, if I were to meet MP in real life or to have him at my house, I would try and be as hospitable and as un-obnoxious as I possibly can. Just not here. Not now. Not as long as the Ind-Pak rivalry exists.

[Aditi]

LOL....were any of you on ICF since the Rivals days?? I'm talking 2000-2001, before ICF and PP moved over to SN. The Pak fans there were ruthless!

[fineleg]

Doc and Gambit, You folks think that calmness (or modesty and/or graciousness for that matter) is a "weakness". I know that I cannot (and I wont attempt it anyway) to change your perception of "weakness" and tit for tat. Gambit: "online" behavior and "MP as guest at ur home" while different is not wholly different. Its your approach and what you feel truly inside. Truly inside you feel a need to put down Pakistanis - whether a few of them are stupid or played poor cricket or whatever - you truly want to put the entire country and a "generalistic view of them" down. Not every person of India is a decent human being over every Pakistani, nor vice versa. Not every player in the 11 (or 15/16) is a better cricketer over Pak cricketers, nor vice versa. We won something, but not without a brilliant fightback by the Pakistanis. Is Afridi stupid? Is Kris Srikkanth stupid? Is Sehwag stupid? Is Dravid stupid for his stonewalling defence? Is Waugh stupid for enforcing the follow on against India? Look, there is a way Srikkanth or Sehwag or Afridi play. They will not change that. They score becos of that, they perish becos of that. You can blame them. You can even call them stupid. But to call all Pakistanis as chokers (not saying that YOU doc or Gambo called that, but you know folks do that)...that is nothing but showing an immaturity and showing a lack of understanding the facts.

[Lurker]

Lurker, my issue was not with you glorifying the current lot, but with denigrating the likes of Sachin and Dravid. They are as ruthless as they come. They want to win more than any other cricketers I know, and would have done so consistently, had they been blessed with the fast bowlers we currently possess. Such is their aura, that opponents dare not sledge them. They know that they will receive a reply in kind....with the bat, in form of a mountain of runs. Incredibly tough, those two.

No they are not Dhondy. Kapil Dev was aggressive, Sunil Gavaskar was not. Sure Sunny had nerves of steel and would handle pretty much whatever was thrown at him but did he have the full-steam-ahead-and-damn-the-torpedoes atitude? No. It was Kapil that had that. I am reminded of the time when Kapil Dev bounced West Indies batsmen only to come back to his own pavillion and chastised by opener Chetan Chauhan, "Who is gonna face all the bouncers that shall be sent our way now". And when Kapil looked towards Sunny he merely looked away instead of standing up for a pace bowler. Please feel free to read about the Bumper War between Kapil and West Indies pace bowler in early 80s. Point being you do NOT need others, or as you say Dravid and Sachin did not have help from bowlers, you can do it if you have what it takes. Dravid and Sachin are men of steel, they have faught many a battle for India but make no mistake when it comes to fighting a battle for my life I would pick a Kapil, a Miandad, an Ian Chappell, a Dhoni, a Yuvraj on my side and not Dravid. Which is also why I absolutely loveddddddd it when Joginder Sharma after being dispatched for a 6 by Morkel came right back with a bouncer at him, telling him that he has the firepower..and thankfully we do not have a Chetan Chauhan in our team only Sehwag and Gambhir. Bring it on Rest of the World. xxx

[yoda]

LOL....were any of you on ICF since the Rivals days?? I'm talking 2000-2001' date=' before ICF and PP moved over to SN. The Pak fans there were ruthless![/quote'] There was ICF/PP history even before SN?

[Aditi]

There was ICF/PP history even before SN?

Oh there was a rich history prior to the SN move....Rivals.net was a site similar to SN where ICF and PP originated from....I believe Gaurang, Gabbar, Anil and I are the only 4 ppl left from the ICF side....the ICF vs PP battles there were legendary! That's where you get the thick skin.

[Gambit]

Doc and Gambit, You folks think that calmness (or modesty and/or graciousness for that matter) is a "weakness". I know that I cannot (and I wont attempt it anyway) to change your perception of "weakness" and tit for tat. Gambit: "online" behavior and "MP as guest at ur home" while different is not wholly different. Its your approach and what you feel truly inside. Truly inside you feel a need to put down Pakistanis - whether a few of them are stupid or played poor cricket or whatever - you truly want to put the entire country and a "generalistic view of them" down. Not every person of India is a decent human being over every Pakistani, nor vice versa. Not every player in the 11 (or 15/16) is a better cricketer over Pak cricketers, nor vice versa. We won something, but not without a brilliant fightback by the Pakistanis. Is Afridi stupid? Is Kris Srikkanth stupid? Is Sehwag stupid? Is Dravid stupid for his stonewalling defence? Is Waugh stupid for enforcing the follow on against India? Look, there is a way Srikkanth or Sehwag or Afridi play. They will not change that. They score becos of that, they perish becos of that. You can blame them. You can even call them stupid. But to call all Pakistanis as chokers (not saying that YOU doc or Gambo called that, but you know folks do that)...that is nothing but showing an immaturity and showing a lack of understanding the facts.

Feel free to call me immature and psychoanalyse my 'condition'. You can shower petals on Pakistan fans and attribute cricket as the winner for the final. Heck even let Pak fans hold the trophy for a minute because they almost deserved it and were unlucky. But not me. That is not the way I celebrate and I am not going to be diffident about it.