sachin_fan Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Someone, anyone, please tell me how is making monkey noises and acting like a monkey amounting to racism.... Especially when compared with wat the Saffies and aussie crowds keep dishing at...
yoda Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/worldcup/2006-06-01-intolerance-cup_x.htm Doesn't explain why, but I'd rather not explain the obvious. Hint: Evolution, Africa, Blacks.
sachin_fan Posted October 18, 2007 Author Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/worldcup/2006-06-01-intolerance-cup_x.htm Doesn't explain why, but I'd rather not explain the obvious. Hint: Evolution, Africa, Blacks. Oh my god, i would have never thought of it...i am sure onli 1 in 100 could think of such a relation....i thought it was just because he looks like a bloody monkey !!!! :D:D:D
yoda Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Oh my god' date=' i would have never thought of it...[b']i am sure onli 1 in 100 could think of such a relation....i thought it was just because he looks like a bloody monkey !!!! :D:D:D Not really. If you read that link you will see that Blacks in general regard it as racist. Of course nothing sounds racist when you are the giver.
Tugga Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 watever it was...it was in utter poor taste...2 make fun of one's physical attribute is a bit over the line.... but honestly i wud ve probably gotten carried away myself if i was in the crowd...comin frm mumbai....i know first hand how boorish we are...but really in the daze of all the excitement..it is hard 2 control oneself...!!! i rememebr this one time when india played west indies in wankhade...the entire section of the crowd were shouting "Dillon is a b******" when he walked in2 bat....and then Sachin signalled 2 stop with the cross of his hand...immediately the entire section of the crowd started shouting "sorry...sorry" !!!!..the first time i experienced how much v luv Sachin...! :D
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 While my initial reaction was one of harsh criticism but thinking about a bit more, calling someone a monkey is not even remotely racist in India. Heck elders call children monkeys all the time. The crowd that did it was no doubt completely unaware of western sensibilities on the issue.
fineleg Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 I dont know if the crowd knew it and did it on purpose, or some knew, some did not. The connotation is pretty global and a negative connotation. Anyway, whichever way the crowd did it, it is a wrong act and needs to be severely criticized.
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 fineleg, a couple of things : 1. What are the chances that the crowd in India was aware of the racist connotations of monkey in western culture - very little I would say. Would you agree? 2. And if you do agree then why should it be the responsibility of people who have grown up and live in one culture to become aware of the culture of a visiting sporting nation? Was it rude? Perhaps, if done with spite. Was it remotely racist in the context of the situation? Very slim chance.
MundaPakistani Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 fineleg, a couple of things : 1. What are the chances that the crowd in India was aware of the racist connotations of monkey in western culture - very little I would say. Would you agree? 2. And if you do agree then why should it be the responsibility of people who have grown up and live in one culture to become aware of the culture of a visiting sporting nation? Was it rude? Perhaps, if done with spite. Was it remotely racist in the context of the situation? Very slim chance. Yes but it should have NEVER happened in 3 consective games.
fineleg Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Shwetabh, Some in the crowd who made the noises may be aware, Others may not be aware and may have joined in the "fun and frolic". So, it is difficult to say what % knew and what % did not know. No, it is not the culture of visiting nation. It is a fairly universal connotation, but not the most common one, so as I said some may have known, others not. In MUMBAI, like MP says, this is a REPEAT incident. Rude - definitely. And as someone said above, dont complain when Aussies will surely give it back to our players when we tour.
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Even my first reaction when the whole thing came out was pretty strong. It must be in one of the first threads on the topic. But after giving it a bit more thought, I think the racism angle is more of a culture gap. Rude, hooligan behavior it was, no doubt about it.
chanakya Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 what do you mean give back? arent we giving it back in the first place? However where ever i have seen a match derogatory comments have always been present. Its rude yeah, but don't we all call Ramesh Powar a fatty because he is fat. Isn't that rude? Calling Sree a maniac, child isn't that rude as well. As far as i know monkey is not a racist taunt in India. Heck i didn't know it was a racist taunt until this episode. They call symmo a monkey? I have heard crowds call English men 'bandar' as well. And seeing their tendency to wear less in hot climates they are usually called naked 'bandar'. On the other hand are Indians racist. Yup they are.
Zap_Brannigan Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 In India, People preferring “fair” brides and grooms….would you call that racist? Technically we are the same race but we still judge and abide by skin color. In US, Black actresses like Halle berry, with some strong Caucasian features are preferred over black actresses without them. Again, technically they are choosing a black person. Is that racist? In Japan and Korea, people prefer girls with white skin over girls with tan skin. Again same race……..But in all these cases, people are prejudiced over skin color or features, knowingly or not, about connotations about racism and such. So I don’t think racism should be only about different races or whether they are ignorant. Any discrimination because of skin color or features has to be considered racists. That is what happened here. They made those monkey noises because he is darker than your avg. Australian.
Holysmoke Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 watever it was...it was in utter poor taste...2 make fun of one's physical attribute is a bit over the line.... but honestly i wud ve probably gotten carried away myself if i was in the crowd...comin frm mumbai....i know first hand how boorish we are...but really in the daze of all the excitement..it is hard 2 control oneself...!!! i rememebr this one time when india played west indies in wankhade...the entire section of the crowd were shouting "Dillon is a b******" when he walked in2 bat....and then Sachin signalled 2 stop with the cross of his hand...immediately the entire section of the crowd started shouting "sorry...sorry" !!!!..the first time i experienced how much v luv Sachin...! :DI was there :D
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Zap, I've seen at a few places Bush's pictures overlaid/adjacent to a chimp. Do you consider that racist?
Zap_Brannigan Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 They are comparing Bush intelligence in that case. But even physically, I wouldn't call that racism. Its hard to explain why that isn't but if you do the the same for symmonds, I would consider it racism. Its the same way a german would be mighty pissed off if you called him a nazi compared to a brit or an Indian. It is an ambiguous line between racism/not racism and i dont know know how to put it in words.
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 They are comparing Bush intelligence in that case. But even physically' date=' I wouldn't call that racism. Its hard to explain why that isn't but if you do the the same for symmonds, I would consider it racism. Its the same way a german would be mighty pissed off if you called him a nazi compared to a brit or an Indian. It is an ambiguous line between racism/not racism and i dont know know how to put it in words.[/quote'] I see your point and agree with you that there is an ambiguous line here, one which some us are loath to admit ourselves. Perhaps appearance wise we don't consider the Bush/chimp comparison racist because we have been trained by our social presence that racist comparisons between a monkey and man are limited to a black man, the reason why that training makes us think of a Symonds/monkey comparison on racist lines. It's not a clear cut issue at all and that's why fun to think and debate about.
Chandan Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Well, I didn't know that comparing a man, black or white, with monkey was racism until this incident. And I can be naive but how can everyone else be ignorant about it too? I'm 100% sure that no one knew about this racism aspect. And it might have been repeated because people knew that it riled up the Australians? I'm not sure about that. But I can tell you that no one knew that calling or making monkey noise was racism. On the other hand, when few people come, dressed in a Kangaroo fancy-dress, do you think that is racism too? Native place, Australia, being the hint?
Zap_Brannigan Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Well, I didn't know that comparing a man, black or white was racism until this incident. And I can be naive but how can everyone else be ignorant about it too? I'm 100% sure that no one knew about this racism aspect. And it might have been repeated because people knew that it riled up the Australians? I'm not sure about that. But I can tell you that no one knew that calling or making monkey noise was racism. On the other hand, when few people come, dressed in a Kangaroo fancy-dress, do you think that is racism too? Native place, Australia, being the hint? Then you have a very narrow defn of racism. When you dress up like a kangaroo ,i dont know how thats offensive instead of support. Lets push it a lil further,lets say another person dressed up like a tiger (India) takes a mock dump on the said kangaroo, they are mocking the nation,not a particular skin color.
Chandan Posted October 18, 2007 Posted October 18, 2007 Then you have a very narrow defn of racism. When you dress up like a kangaroo ' date='i dont know how thats offensive instead of support. Lets push it a lil further,lets say another person dressed up like a tiger (India) takes a mock dump on the said kangaroo, they are mocking the nation,not a particular skin color.[/quote'] That is what I'm saying. Why being compared with monkey only is considered as racism? I want to know the reason!! In India we have castism, regionalism, differences because of religion but racism?? How many different races do we have in India to have racism here? Aryans, Dravidians, some Pathans and...??
Recommended Posts