How is it fair?...

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: How is it fair?...

If an Indian gets caught doing the same' date=' even if it's Sachin or Rahul, I'll want them banned. A lot of people go on about Shane Warne here too, just like I am about Asif, but I don't take that one as seriously, as he served his punishment and missed out on another World Cup final win. If he had escaped a ban, I'd be saying the same about him too...[/quote'] :wtg: I still put him under dope category because he has strategically put himself up for only test matches where ICC is not involved in dope test so who knows he may have been doing it all along.. anyway bottomline is when he was found guilty he served his sentence so can;t be in the same category as these two pakistani thugs

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How is it fair?...

Amazing how you folks use Warne's example yet forget about the 1993/94 match fixining incident where both him and Waugh were let of after both ADMITTED of the crime. In this case both Shoaib and Asif just like 20 other athletes tested positive for the same drug have been able to prove their innocence in front of an independent tribunal so now you lot can be either bitter and rave about it for ever or learn to give the guy some credit for such a marvelous spell of fast bowling.

comparing apple and oranges seems to be speciality of u folks.. for the zillionth time in match fixing saga only those got puncihed who were found red-handed from every country lesser criminals went unscathed be it waseem akram or mark waygh or nayam mongia..

Ummm there was enough proof and later on they(warne and Waugh) ADMITTED so if you don't think that is called 'caught red handed' then more power to you.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How is it fair?...

I was talking to my English friend just now, while the English are huge rivals of ours in cricket, they are also the people who know as much as we do about Pakistan's cheating history. Ask any Englishman who the most underhanded nation has been in Test cricket, and it will always be answered 'Pakistan'. (They've suffered from most of the cheating). Anyway, I was laughing at him about the Aussies whupping the poms in that ODI, but he was more keen on discussing how credible Asif's 5-fer will be to non-Pakistanis... This Asif is a disgrace. Shoaib, Imran & co at least established themselves in Test cricket before they began cheating, this guy's started his career as a cheat...

oh please..is it the same ENG who used to say that reverse swing is impossible.Among them all only Geoff Boycott was honest enough to admit that his team was simply not good enough is still remember that quote of his' Waqar and Wasim are so good that they can bowl ENG out with oranges'. The ironic thing is that ENG's most historic win in the last 15 years(Ashes 2005) was coined by the same old reverse swing that was suppose to 'impossible'. Oh and people like your friend should also be told about the match fixing history which i am not even going to get in to.

reverese swing is no excuse for ball tampering incidentally one of the pioneer reverse swinger waqar has been punsihed by icc for ball tampering, I guess his reverse swing alibi didn;t hold water as it shoudl be in the hearing :wtg:

English media said that it was IMPOSSIBLE to make the ball reverse like that with out tampering.... so have they been proven wrong or what? Secondly even the likes of Rahul Dravid and Sachin have also been charged of ball tampering so does that mean that the Indians have always tampered with the ball? The basic fact is that Wasim and Waqar played in about 800 international matches and reverse swung the ball in almost every match they played so then why aren't there more than 2 or 3 cases of them being caught while ball tampering? I know it's hard for you but have you ever thought that they might just have a bit of skill which allowed them to move the ball in the way they did?

[chanakya]

Re: How is it fair?... http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/258645.html Swing is skill and knowledge. And it is science as well.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: How is it fair?...

Ummm there was enough proof and later on they(warne and Waugh) ADMITTED so if you don't think that is called 'caught red handed' then more power to you.

same genre and credibility of proof whihc nayan mogiya akaram and company had.. admission, when did that happend.. please provide me their admission where they said they fixed matches. I must have missed it if u are not just cooking it up...... Admision is what imran khan saheb wrote in his autobipgraphy what Qaadir mentioned.. if you have sthg like that let everyone know..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: How is it fair?...

English media said that it was IMPOSSIBLE to make the ball reverse like that with out tampering.... so have they been proven wrong or what? Secondly even the likes of Rahul Dravid and Sachin have also been charged of ball tampering so does that mean that the Indians have always tampered with the ball? The basic fact is that Wasim and Waqar played in about 800 international matches and reverse swung the ball in almost every match they played so then why aren't there more than 2 or 3 cases of them being caught while ball tampering? I know it's hard for you but have you ever thought that they might just have a bit of skill which allowed them to move the ball in the way they did?

watch this video,

english media was not of the mark when they accused him of tampering they certainly did tamper yes got away wiht that for quite sometime.. now why they dont get cauught more often well have perfected the art of hiding the bowl.... moreover I see u are harping about imgainary admission of warne but it seems pakistani cricketers real admission of tampering you somehow missed :lmao:

[beetle]

Re: How is it fair?... On numerous occasions i have shown my remorse about the decisions. That unfortunately doesn't make much difference to the situation. The cheat is playing ...full of banned stuff that gives him an advantage over the others ...isn't it ? and the other cheat is joining him now. It's very hardly to believe that Shoaib in particular was innocent (in Asif's case there is some innocence) how ever what i find almost amusing is when people using Shane Warne's example to prove their point...sure CA punished him for the drug use but how can we all totally forget the 93/94 match fixing saga where they forgave both their stars even after they had ADMITTED of match fixing. Match fixing essentially means underperforming to get desired results...because performing to maximum potential is what is expected of each player....unless he was paying our players to underperform ....it is their problem...if he wants to underperform for money ...that's the aussie boards problem....waisay if we talk about matchfixing then very few pak players of that time will be left with non fixing reputation(and some of ours) .....isn't it?So he may have fixed matches.....we are talking about taking drugs to increase performace here....... In this case at least there is some medical evidence and technicality that was used to prove Shoaib+Asif's innocence(20 other athletes were acquitted after being tested positive for the same drug) while in Warne's case it was 110% proven that he was guilty. Another thing which is sad is that we all accept and admire Warne and Waugh for their accomplishment yet why is it so hard to give props to M Asif who producing the most beautiful spell of seam bowling a man would ever wish to see. Fact of the matter is that the day shane warne was caught in an internal drug test(just like pak) he was punished and he came back after they made sure he was not playing with an unfair advantage ......that is the issue here.....in letting these two off....the pak board has shown that they are as OK with the cheating as long as it is to their advantage ...that makes them cheaters too.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How is it fair?...

English media said that it was IMPOSSIBLE to make the ball reverse like that with out tampering.... so have they been proven wrong or what? Secondly even the likes of Rahul Dravid and Sachin have also been charged of ball tampering so does that mean that the Indians have always tampered with the ball? The basic fact is that Wasim and Waqar played in about 800 international matches and reverse swung the ball in almost every match they played so then why aren't there more than 2 or 3 cases of them being caught while ball tampering? I know it's hard for you but have you ever thought that they might just have a bit of skill which allowed them to move the ball in the way they did?

watch this video,

english media was not of the mark when they accused him of tampering they certainly did tamper yes got away wiht that for quite sometime.. now why they dont get cauught more often well have perfected the art of hiding the bowl.... moreover I see u are harping about imgainary admission of warne but it seems pakistani cricketers real admission of tampering you somehow missed :lmao:

Here is the admission of Waugh and Warne of taking money from the bookies. http://www.rediff.com/sports/1998/dec/09a.htm Imran wrote in his book that back then bowlers from all over the world used to tamper with the ball( a lot of other ex-cricketers have confirmed that). In fact bowlers used to even do it right in front of the cameras yet it was hardly an issue and was never noticed...the whole thing of ball tampering was started when the Pakistanis blew ENG away at home in the 1992 series. Wasim and Waqar played cricket for 11 years after that series vs ENG and other than literally 1 or 2 instanses they were never even questioned for tampering....Now did all the cameras suddenly dissappear? or did the 2 Ws develop some invisible nails that even the super slow motion replays were not able to catch? :shrug:

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How is it fair?...

That unfortunately doesn't make much difference to the situation. The cheat is playing ...full of banned stuff that gives him an advantage over the others ...isn't it ? and the other cheat is joining him now.

Tests were conducted a good 6-8 months ago so by now the nano level should be fairly close to what it should be and if it's not then he will be out of the grand event(WC)

Match fixing essentially means underperforming to get desired results...because performing to maximum potential is what is expected of each player....unless he was paying our players to underperform ....it is their problem...if he wants to underperform for money ...that's the aussie boards problem....waisay if we talk about matchfixing then very few pak players of that time will be left with non fixing reputation(and some of ours) .....isn't it?So he may have fixed matches.....we are talking about taking drugs to increase performace here.......

How do you know he was not paying your players? The whole issue started in the 70s when a few Aussie players went on to bet against their own team in a game in which they played ...CA did absolutely NOTHING and also did nothing against Warne and Waugh. PAK/Indian players never admitted of taking money from the bookies and nothing was proven so you can't use that example.

Fact of the matter is that the day shane warne was caught in an internal drug test(just like pak) he was punished and he came back after they made sure he was not playing with an unfair advantage ......that is the issue here.....in letting these two off....the pak board has shown that they are as OK with the cheating as long as it is to their advantage ...that makes them cheaters too.

Here you are constantly ignoring the following facts 1- It was the PCB who told the entire world that their players had been tested positive...the issue could have been swept under the carpet. 2- When the players didn't show any evidence of their innocence they were both banned by the 1st tribunal. 3- 20 other athletes have been acquitted after being positive of this very drug and this is one of the reasons why http://www.mail-archive.com/t-and-f@lists.uoregon.edu/msg11302.html 4- Asif had stopped using a vitamin supplement (legal off course) bought locally as soon as he was told to do so by D Lifson. 5- The process was not carried out in the way that it was suppose to be hence the lawyers were able to point out the flaws in the procedure So the bottom line is that the players were not forgiven they were acquitted because they had proven their innocence like 20 other athletes? so now this case is totally out of PCB?s hands and has moved to the court so the best thing to do is to wait till that verdict.

[beetle]

Re: How is it fair?... Here you are constantly ignoring the following facts 1- It was the PCB who told the entire world that their players had been tested positive...the issue could have been swept under the carpet. So did the aussies....why not give credit there......the fact that they came out with it is the expected thing to do....sweeping it under the carpet would have been another nail in the coffin of pak crickets reputation.....sorry ...no points there 2- When the players didn't show any evidence of their innocence they were both banned by the 1st tribunal. 3- 20 other athletes have been acquitted after being positive of this very drug and this is one of the reasons why http://www.mail-archive.com/t-and-f@lists.uoregon.edu/msg11302.html We are talking cricketers here...how many have been caught ? 4- Asif had stopped using a vitamin supplement (legal off course) bought locally as soon as he was told to do so by D Lifson. What do you expect him to say...i took it to become big and strong......he may have taken it innocently :huh: ...but that is no excuse for an international criceter 5- The process was not carried out in the way that it was suppose to be hence the lawyers were able to point out the flaws in the procedure Just loopholes....found and used as an afterthought..

[Captain of Bhangra]

Re: How is it fair?... 33 South African wickets have fallen so far in this series. 18 of those wickets have been taken by known performance enhancing drug users... That's 55%...

[Dirty_South]

Re: How is it fair?... :duh:

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How is it fair?...

So did the aussies....why not give credit there......the fact that they came out with it is the expected thing to do....sweeping it under the carpet would have been another nail in the coffin of pak crickets reputation.....sorry ...no points there In warne's case(1st case) they totally swept it under the carpet. We are talking cricketers here...how many have been caught ? It's a new process in cricket(started only in 2002). Secondly do you think a bullet pace bowler like Shoaib does any less physical training than a tennis player? If the answer is no then why are you continuously ignoring the scientific evidence. What do you expect him to say...i took it to become big and strong......he may have taken it innocently :huh: ...but that is no excuse for an international criceter It was a legal drug...every athlete in the world is allowed to take it. Just loopholes....found and used as an afterthought..

Loopholes+ scientific evidence= Very strong case.

[yoda]

Re: How is it fair?... Asif will remain a drug cheat till the next clean Nandro test. And even after he comes clean and remains clean (with periodic testing), he will remain an "ex drug cheat".

[MundaPakistani]

Re: How is it fair?...

So did the aussies....why not give credit there......the fact that they came out with it is the expected thing to do....sweeping it under the carpet would have been another nail in the coffin of pak crickets reputation.....sorry ...no points there In warne's case(1st case) they totally swept it under the carpet. We are talking cricketers here...how many have been caught ? It's a new process in cricket(started only in 2002). Secondly do you think a bullet pace bowler like Shoaib does any less physical training than a tennis player? If the answer is no then why are you continuously ignoring the scientific evidence. What do you expect him to say...i took it to become big and strong......he may have taken it innocently :huh: ...but that is no excuse for an international criceter It was a legal drug...every athlete in the world is allowed to take it. Just loopholes....found and used as an afterthought.. Loopholes+ scientific evidence= Very strong case.