Eurofighter Typhoon Vs Bugatti Veyron.. Must watch!!

[Holysmoke]

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=fHSe4IV81gw]YouTube - Top Gear: Eurofighter vs Bugatti Veyron[/ame]

[Ram]

What an awesome car ! 1000 Bhp , 0-60 in just 2 Secs !, top speed - 408 kmph ! The ultimate road-going super car. The Buggati will hammer the Ferrari , Lambo or the Zonda. The ultimate manifestation of human Engineering.

[veer]

holy smokes!!!:two_thumbs_up:

[gs]

jesus christ!!! thats some car and a plane!!

[Guest Hiten.]

dayummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Bugatti is Engineering Masterpiece :two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up:

[Dirty_South]

Holy $hit !

[Don]

The plane Eurofighter typhoon is an absolute absoulte beauty. Sorry a aircraft engineer here, for me nothing beats a plane.

[Ram]

The plane Eurofighter typhoon is an absolute absoulte beauty. Sorry a aircraft engineer here, for me nothing beats a plane.

A Sukhoi 30 MKI will beat the Eurofighter in s dog-fight in its sleep. No touching the Sukhoi !

[Holysmoke]

A Sukhoi 30 MKI will beat the Eurofighter in s dog-fight in its sleep. No touching the Sukhoi !

Typhoon vs SU-30MKI: Lessons from Operation Indra Dhanush 20 July 2007

While exercises are a good indication of operational capabilities, it is always a tricky matter to draw firm conclusions from them, for they can never replace combat experience. But, in the absence of real wars where both sides enjoy relative parity, multinational joint exercises offer an interesting view of the 'actual' operational capabilities of weapons systems as well as national competencies and trends.

It acquires an altogether new meaning in the context of the arms industry, especially when a number of air forces are contemplating future fighter aircraft purchase options. For example, in addition to the prospective $10 billion contract for 126 fighters it is to release soon, India is also examining the value of force multipliers and force projection platforms in its air force. Therefore, a closer analysis of Exercise Indra Dhanush 2007 at Waddington, UK, is likely to be a fairly instructive exercise. Sukhoi vs Typhoon India's SU-30Ks have faced American F-15Cs and F-16s during joint exercises in India, in 2004 and 2005. But Indra Dhanush 2007 featured more advanced combatants on both sides. Britain's Eurofighter Typhoon, whose advanced aerodynamics and intuitive controls and avionics have rated it as the second-best air superiority aircraft in the world, was supported by the Tornado F3 and the very latest GR9 Harriers from the Royal Navy. On the other side was India's SU-30MKI, the most evolved operational version from the Sukhoi family of flankers, which has aerodynamics that allow unique manoeuvres and full thrust vectoring. The operational part of 'Exercise Indradhanush-2007' began with a series of 1-to-1 air combat sorties. The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKI's observed superior manoeuvring in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoon's agility in the air. Missiles vs guns Here, it must be understood that in today's 'beyond visual range' (BVR) aerial combat scenario, it is highly unlikely that any of the modern-day fighters will ever get into a close air combat situation that closely resembles a classic World War II dogfight. But this was the exact situation simulated in the 1-to-1 sorties, which had 'kill' criteria based on the front-cannon range, usually less than 1,000 metres. The visual tracking envelope behind the target was only for up to a 60-degree cone; an unlikely scenario if ever there could be one. But the fact is that there are a number of counter, as well as counter-counter measures to make modern missiles redundant by using 'chaff' and other active and passive measures, regardless of their impressive 'kill' parameters. A 'gun kill' on the other hand, no matter how unlikely, is a certain kill. Pilots are actually matching their real-world tracking and combat skills under such close combat situations. Even in the BVR missile era, the vast majority of air-to-air kills have been within visual range. Consequently, these parameters, regardless of how antiquated they may seem on paper, are still relevant. At short missile ranges, both aircraft are capable of carrying out fast 'slew and point' manoeuvres, can deploy infrared search and track systems, bring helmet-mounted sights to bear, and launch the highly manoeuvrable short-range infrared missiles (ASRAAM and AA-11/R-73) with wide boresight seeker cones. This creates more forgiving parameters for a kill than the front gun range requirements; the SU-30MKI's superior maneuverability would have to contend with UK Typhoon flight profiles enabled by ASRAAM's longer range and lock-on after launch capability. How do they measure? In long-range combat situations, issues of detection and reach would also make a difference. The Eurofighter is smaller than the SU-30, and has more 'shaping' to reduce its radar profile and its Meteor ramjet BVRAAM missile can kill from a longer range than the Russian AA-12/R-77. Speed can compensate somewhat by reducing detection time and extending missile range, especially in anti high-value asset (HVA) missions against tankers, AWACS aircraft, etc. But neither aircraft can reach the capabilities of the F-22A Raptor or the F-35 Lightning II. Unlike the American F-22A, the Typhoon's supercruise capability for sustained speed above Mach 1 relies on the aircraft being 'clean', with no external weaponry or fuel tanks mounted. The SU-30 also lacks that capability, but will get it as and when plans for an engine with higher ratings are realised. Exercise Indra Dhanush 2007 reaching its high point with a 6 v/s 6 exercise with 4 Indian Su-30 MKIs, 4 British F3 Tornados, 2 British Typhoons and 2 Royal Navy GR9 Harriers. An Indian IL-78 MKI aerial refuelling tanker and a British E-3D Sentry AWACS were also in the air. But no details have been released regarding the results. The force projection angle To India, however, what matters a great deal more than the excitement of the aerial battles is the successful deployment of its latest aircraft using IAF aerial refuelling and the attendent logistics. An Indian ministry of defence release states: "When the IAF Jaguars flew to Alaska during their first overseas joint air exercise 'Cope Thunder' in July '04, the newly inducted Ilyushin-78 MKI 'air-to-air' refuellers of the IAF heralded their acquired strategic reach capability. This year, the six Su-30 MKIs that flew from the Pune airbase in India to the RAF airbase at Waddington (UK), were also accompanied by two IL-78 MKIs of the 'Valorous MARS' (No: 78 Mid-Air-Refuelling Squadron) from Agra, through their long ferry route. Despite the din and the excitement of the first-ever arrival of the formidable Su-30 MKIs in the UK, the significant aspect of IAF's continued enhanced strategic reach capability did not go unnoticed." When India gets the IL-76 Russian-Israeli Phalcon AWACS aircraft, its power projection ability will grow. Coupled with the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier (to be called INS Vikramaditya), it will be a force to be reckoned with in the Indian Ocean area. Exercises like Indra Dhanush 2007 are valuable, as much for the insights and the trends that they provide, as for the more direct logistics and interoperability lessons learned. Last, but not least, the IAF gets to see what the fighter aircraft the country is thinking of buying are actually capable of. The IL-78 MKIs have been employed in five overseas assignments so far. These include Alaska, South Africa, France, Singapore and now UK. Unfortunately, tanking the RAF fighters during the exercise was not part of the mission, as that would have really tested interoperability. The six IAF Su-30 MKI fighters that participated in Operation Indra Dhanush flew nearly 19,000 km each, and did mid-air tanking eight times, transferring nearly 225 tonnes of fuel mid-air in all, spread over 28 flying hours. Stopovers were at Doha (Qatar) and Tanagra (Greece), both coming and going. http://www.domain-b.com/aero/july/2007/20070720_indra_dhanush.htm

[Ram]

The Sukhoi 30 is quite simply the meanest, baddest and the most versatile fighter out there. In fact , the Sukhois flew over American bases in the pacific easily undetected in a mock raid. ie. they were un-armed , but in a real combat situation, that entire american base would have been toast. One gripe the Russians have against the Indians is that India takes its Sukhois to all its air-exercises against both the Americans and the europeans , thus giving the americans that rare chance to match their toys against the Sukhoi. As pointed out in the above article , the Sukhois have till now outperformed the F-15 , F-16 and even the Eurofighter Tycoon. And unlike what was said in the Top Gear Video , the Eurofighter is considered to be a white elephant. An expensive project with multiple cost-overruns but the end product wasnt all that satisfactory.

[Bongosamaj]

The Sukhoi 30 is quite simply the meanest, baddest and the most versatile fighter out there.

Err no. The meanest, baddest & most versatile fighter out there, is undoubtedly, the F-22. The F-22 schools the Sukhoi and any other fighter out there. In combat scenario, no fighter is a match for the F-22. It has less manueverability & can carry less armaments than the Su-30MKI. However, The F-22 is superfast, has just as good a range as any fighter but most critically, its stealth is amazingly good, essentially preventing a missile lock even when you can see the F-22 right in front of you. Realistically, until a massive breakthrough happens in radar technology, the only way to shoot a F-22 down is with your onboard cannon or shower the area with anti-air missiles. Needless to say, either scenario carries a high rate of failure, thus making the F-22 practically invincible in an arial combat. Furthermore, Su-30 is a decent plane, not that great. The Su-30 MKK version for example(which China uses), is not much better than the MiG-29, essentially being just a wee bit more reliable and longer range. However, the Su-30 MKI variation ( the one India uses) is massively superior to any other Su-30 variations out there so far. However, the Su-30 MKI is still inferior to the Su-35 and Su-30 MKI is basically the export variation of Su-35, which is in service ( or shortly entering service, dunno) with the Russian Air Force. Basically, Su-35 can carry a bit more fuel, bit more bombs,has a better engine & has a slightly longer range than the Su-30 MKI, with everything else essentially the same. ( The Su-30MKI has a slightly better avionics suite but its a minor edge in this field). However, make no mistake, the Su-30 MKI is still a top-of-the-line fighter and categorically superior to any air superiority fighter made or procured by China and Pakistan. It can only be equalled by the Eurofighter Typhoon & perhaps the F-35, with only the F-22 and Su-35 being its superior. That is damn fine a standing nonetheless.

but in a real combat situation, that entire american base would have been toast.

Only if you pull-off a complete surprise attack like Pearl Harbour ( ie, launch an attack before declaring war & keeping the whole proceedings extremely secret). And that too, it'd work only once (the surprise factor). Once you 'toast' that Air base & America declares war on India, no other Indian jet is gonna make it to within 200 km of any American military base. And in the next one week, America would school India and force its unconditional surrender. Hey, just keeping it real.

the Sukhois have till now outperformed the F-15 , F-16 and even the Eurofighter Tycoon.

Err the article doesnt give the impression that the Su-30 MKI outperformed the typhoon. Remember, Typhoon has longer ranged missiles, smaller radar profile & a better avionics suite. These go long ways to neutralize Su-30MKI's superior agility, range & carrying power. Thus, 1v1, Su-30MKI and the ET are more or less evenly matched. Where the Su-30MKI scores massively over the ET is its price-tag. The unit-cost of Su-30MKI is between 30-40 million USD while that of the ET is between 50-60 million USD. Thus, for the same price, India can field 3 Su-30MKIs for every 2 ET that the EU fields, therefore, tilting the balance irrevocably in the Su-30MKI's favour in war scenario.

[Don]

My earlier comment was in comparison with the car, but i do like where the discussion veered off to. Gotta agree with bongo, F22 is a real badboy in terms of techincality and performance compared to typhoons and the sukhois.

[gs]

Agree with Bongo. F-22 Raptor will continue USA's air dominance over the next decade.

[THX_1138]

mmmmm i can smell the high carbon dioxide emissions already... yeah... we need another 1000hp car, our environment has had it too easy lately, its time we turned the tables on it.

[Ram]

Err no. The meanest, baddest & most versatile fighter out there, is undoubtedly, the F-22. The F-22 schools the Sukhoi and any other fighter out there. In combat scenario, no fighter is a match for the F-22. It has less manueverability & can carry less armaments than the Su-30MKI. However, The F-22 is superfast, has just as good a range as any fighter but most critically, its stealth is amazingly good, essentially preventing a missile lock even when you can see the F-22 right in front of you. Realistically, until a massive breakthrough happens in radar technology, the only way to shoot a F-22 down is with your onboard cannon or shower the area with anti-air missiles. Needless to say, either scenario carries a high rate of failure, thus making the F-22 practically invincible in an arial combat.

F-22 is faster ? Can you tell me the figures please ?

Only if you pull-off a complete surprise attack like Pearl Harbour ( ie, launch an attack before declaring war & keeping the whole proceedings extremely secret). And that too, it'd work only once (the surprise factor). Once you 'toast' that Air base & America declares war on India, no other Indian jet is gonna make it to within 200 km of any American military base. And in the next one week, America would school India and force its unconditional surrender. Hey, just keeping it real.

But that isnt the point is it ? That mock raid was testament fo S-30's stealth technology and superior capabilities. In a war situation , you would agree i am sure , there is nothing like launching a surprise undetected attack.

Err the article doesnt give the impression that the Su-30 MKI outperformed the typhoon. Remember, Typhoon has longer ranged missiles, smaller radar profile & a better avionics suite. These go long ways to neutralize Su-30MKI's superior agility, range & carrying power. Thus, 1v1, Su-30MKI and the ET are more or less evenly matched. Where the Su-30MKI scores massively over the ET is its price-tag. The unit-cost of Su-30MKI is between 30-40 million USD while that of the ET is between 50-60 million USD. Thus, for the same price, India can field 3 Su-30MKIs for every 2 ET that the EU fields, therefore, tilting the balance irrevocably in the Su-30MKI's favour in war scenario.

I am not talking from the article , i am talking from other sources that i have read, which have shown that the S-30 is clearly a superior air-fighter

[Ram]

mmmmm i can smell the high carbon dioxide emissions already... yeah... we need another 1000hp car' date=' our environment has had it too easy lately, its time we turned the tables on it.[/quote'] :haha: There you go , our very own quintessential green activist !

[Bongosamaj]

F-22 is faster ? Can you tell me the figures please ?

F-22 has supercruise. Su-30MKI doesnt.

That mock raid was testament fo S-30's stealth technology and superior capabilities.

Err, i doubt the news reporting which puts it that way, since the Su-30MKI does NOT have stealth capabilities. It has radar cross-section reduction capabilities, not stealth.

i am talking from other sources that i have read, which have shown that the S-30 is clearly a superior air-fighter

Err ok.I havnt come across an article that shows the Su-30MKI to be 'clearly superior' to the Eurofighter Typhoon in terms of performance.

[Ram]

Err ok.I havnt come across an article that shows the Su-30MKI to be 'clearly superior' to the Eurofighter Typhoon in terms of performance.

The Eurofighter was plagued from the beginning with both political/technical delays that stll plague it till today . Its engine has some serious issues that still cast doubts over it. Many countries have placed orders for the Eurofighter, only to either prune the order later or totally cancel it. But the Sukhoi is hot property though.

[Bongosamaj]

The Eurofighter was plagued from the beginning with both political/technical delays that stll plague it till today . Its engine has some serious issues that still cast doubts over it. Many countries have placed orders for the Eurofighter, only to either prune the order later or totally cancel it. But the Sukhoi is hot property though.

As i said, only issue with the ET is the cost-overruns and that it costs so much more than an equivalent plane like Su-30MKI. And Su-30MKI is hot property because it is the cheapest of the 'frontline' attack jets in the world that are on sale. Bottomline is, 1v1 combat, su-30 & the ET are more or less evenly matched.

[Ram]

As i said, only issue with the ET is the cost-overruns and that it costs so much more than an equivalent plane like Su-30MKI. And Su-30MKI is hot property because it is the cheapest of the 'frontline' attack jets in the world that are on sale. Bottomline is, 1v1 combat, su-30 & the ET are more or less evenly matched.

The article states thus, "The operational part of 'Exercise Indradhanush-2007' began with a series of 1-to-1 air combat sorties. The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKI's observed superior manoeuvring in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoon's agility in the air."