Was Imran Khan a severe and regular ball tamperor?

[Marut]

but... that is not true... i suppose.it is a conventional assumption that Imran is the best all rounder of the FAB 4.This has been followed ever since their playing days in the cricketing circles is a well known fact.but the truth behind this assumption was Imran's superior test bowling avg:s and better test bat avg and also his better one day bat avg:.those days one days were considered as really unimportant when compared to tests.more over no body bothered to dig deep into details.the general criteria followed was what ever be the form of cricket' date=' the better the avg: the better the player was.and Imran being the better captain made his position undisputed. but now for me personally even going by their career stats alone(let alone the ball tamper allegation) Kapil is on a par with Imran.[/quote'] Even without the need for tampering, Imran was probably better than Kapil. Their statistical averages on similar surfaces are too different to allow any equality between them. Again, Kapil was not a genuine fast bowler (Kapil was fast medium at best), and Imran was a genuine fast bowler. Kapil is perhaps better than many bowlers with better averages (including Botham) because he bowled a lot of unfriendly Indian wickets, but Imran also bowled a lot on unfriendly surfaces. Purely, on sheer batting talent, I would rate the four all rounders as: Kapil > Botham > Imran > Hadlee Kapil is on par with a top order batsman purely in terms of batting talent, as evident from his early exploits in WI and Eng. Kapil is the only batsman to score two run a ball hundreds against the WI pace quartet in their own backyard, and this is no ordinary achievement even for a top order batsman. It is unfortunate that he underacheived much, he was surely a 40 avg potential batsman. On batting accomplishments, I would rate as Botham> Imran> Kapil > Hadlee Botham did maximum justice to his batting potential and played many match winning knocks with the bat, Kapil was good only in patches and did not do justice to his potential. Imran was a limited batsman compared to these two, but he was gritty and was often instrumental in pakistan wins or draw in the later half of the 80s. On bowling talent, I would rate as Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham On bowling achievements, I would rate as Imran > Hadlee > Kapil > Botham

[rtmohanlal]

Even without the need for tampering, Imran was probably better than Kapil. Their statistical averages on similar surfaces are too different to allow any equality between them. Again, Kapil was not a genuine fast bowler (Kapil was fast medium at best), and Imran was a genuine fast bowler. Kapil is perhaps better than many bowlers with better averages (including Botham) because he bowled a lot of unfriendly Indian wickets, but Imran also bowled a lot on unfriendly surfaces. Purely, on sheer batting talent, I would rate the four all rounders as: Kapil > Botham > Imran > Hadlee Kapil is on par with a top order batsman purely in terms of batting talent, as evident from his early exploits in WI and Eng. Kapil is the only batsman to score two run a ball hundreds against the WI pace quartet in their own backyard, and this is no ordinary achievement even for a top order batsman. It is unfortunate that he underacheived much, he was surely a 40 avg potential batsman. On batting accomplishments, I would rate as Botham> Imran> Kapil > Hadlee Botham did maximum justice to his batting potential and played many match winning knocks with the bat, Kapil was good only in patches and did not do justice to his potential. Imran was a limited batsman compared to these two, but he was gritty and was often instrumental in pakistan wins or draw in the later half of the 80s. On bowling talent, I would rate as Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham On bowling achievements, I would rate as Imran > Hadlee > Kapil > Botham

i differ with you on some points here.more over you have not taken into account one dayers too.

[putrevus]

Ian Botham is greatest all rounder of Fab4, he was true all rounder in every sense, he could bowl , bat like top order batsmen and could walk into any side of his era as batsman.He was one of greatest slip fielders. Kaps was very much in Ian botham mold but he was not as consistent with bat as Botham. Imran was bowler who could bat and Hadlee was a tailender who could bat. In regards to their bowling abilities Hadlee was head and shoulders above all the four no question about it, he just could make the ball talk, The way he moved the ball around even in India was a sight in itself.He took so many wickets with regular swing. Botham was a very underrated bowler but he was very fine bowler he also had very good bowlers in his team to lessen his burden. Imran like Hadlee had so much time to hone his skills and always had good bowlers as support cast but the thing which goes against Imran he was just okay bowler for his first 30 tests . Boom suddenly he picked up the pace and was almost unplayable that too on Pakistan pitches.It just shows if reverse swing did not happen he would have been just okay bowler. How Imran got that reverse swing is very much open to debate since he never could replicate that reverse swing in India if done legitimately why could not he replicate that in India where in 1987 he looked lost as bowler. Kaps outbowled Imran in 1978 in India by a mile and even without reverse swing and biased umpiring he took 24 wickets to Imran's 40. Both Hadlee and Imran came from privileged back grounds had lot of connections in their boards so even though they had not tasted success right away they had many chances to prove their skills. Kaps and Botham were hit straight away and went on to become very young captains. In short Test batting Botham>Kaps>Imran>Hadlee Test Bowling Hadlee>Imran>Botham & Kaps Odi Batting it is no contest Kaps is hands down best. Kaps with his SR and ability to lift his team from certain defeat has no peers. Odi bowling Hadlee>kaps & Imran > Botham.

[rtmohanlal]

Ian Botham is greatest all rounder of Fab4, he was true all rounder in every sense, he could bowl , bat like top order batsmen and could walk into any side of his era as batsman.He was one of greatest slip fielders. Kaps was very much in Ian botham mold but he was not as consistent with bat as Botham. Imran was bowler who could bat and Hadlee was a tailender who could bat. In regards to their bowling abilities Hadlee was head and shoulders above all the four no question about it, he just could make the ball talk, The way he moved the ball around even in India was a sight in itself.He took so many wickets with regular swing. Botham was a very underrated bowler but he was very fine bowler he also had very good bowlers in his team to lessen his burden. Imran like Hadlee had so much time to hone his skills and always had good bowlers as support cast but the thing which goes against Imran he was just okay bowler for his first 30 tests . Boom suddenly he picked up the pace and was almost unplayable that too on Pakistan pitches.It just shows if reverse swing did not happen he would have been just okay bowler. How Imran got that reverse swing is very much open to debate since he never could replicate that reverse swing in India if done legitimately why could not he replicate that in India where in 1987 he looked lost as bowler. Kaps outbowled Imran in 1978 in India by a mile and even without reverse swing and biased umpiring he took 24 wickets to Imran's 40. Both Hadlee and Imran came from privileged back grounds had lot of connections in their boards so even though they had not tasted success right away they had many chances to prove their skills. Kaps and Botham were hit straight away and went on to become very young captains. In short Test batting Botham>Kaps>Imran>Hadlee Test Bowling Hadlee>Imran>Botham & Kaps Odi Batting it is no contest Kaps is hands down best. Kaps with his SR and ability to lift his team from certain defeat has no peers. Odi bowling Hadlee>kaps & Imran > Botham.

Kapil vs Botham easy choice... Kapil all the way . reasons .... 1. much longevity than Botham in both forms of the game. 2.easily the better one day player both in batting and bowling 3. slightly better test bowler considering the indian conditions and the little support he got 4.slightly better test batsman. of course this may raise a few eye brows considering that both were aggressive batsmen with Botham having 14 100s to Kapil's 8 and Botham having slightly better bat avg: .but Kapil's str: rate was a mammoth >80 against Botham's 60.Kapil took on the great Windies bowlers while Botham flopped. if we consider >75 test scores Kapil has 15 such scores against Botham's 16 even though they differed in no: of 100s by 6.and in these 15 >75 scores he averaged 131.5 at a mammoth str: rate of 96.45 . for Botham the respective figures are 140.78 and 76.45 respectively. only a difference of 9.28 in avg: but difference of 20 w.r.t str: rate in favour of Kapil. that means Botham took 184.15 balls to score 140.78 runs where as Kapil took only 136.34 balls to score 131.5 runs.and what not 4 of these came against rampant West Indies against Botham's '1 such score in home condition'.that all shows how effective a batsman was Kapil to score all these runs in the company of tail enders at a rapid pace. 5. Kapil was the better over all fielder. he could field any where. take catches just like the one he took in the 83 world cup to dismiss Viv.he was brilliant in the slips too.Botham was a specialist in the slips. 6. better captain by a fair distance.lead from the front in the 83 world cup .produced that brilliant 175 not out at a very critical stage of the tournament. he was the batsman of the tournament with a 60.6 avg: and 108.99 str: rate.he took 12 wkts too at 20.41 avg:.took the all important catch of Vivl. and he was easily the best all rounder in the 1992 world cup too for that matter , though past his prime.he led India to series victory in England and some notable performances too with a comparatively weaker team at his disposal. so Kapil wins for me by a fair distance.this is not even a contest

[putrevus]

Kapil vs Botham easy choice... Kapil all the way . reasons .... 1. much longevity than Botham in both forms of the game. 2.easily the better one day player both in batting and bowling 3. slightly better test bowler considering the indian conditions and the little support he got 4.slightly better test batsman. of course this may raise a few eye brows considering that both were aggressive batsmen with Botham having 14 100s to Kapil's 8 and Botham having slightly better bat avg: .but Kapil's str: rate was a mammoth >80 against Botham's 60.Kapil took on the great Windies bowlers while Botham flopped. if we consider >75 test scores Kapil has 15 such scores against Botham's 16 even though they differed in no: of 100s by 6.and in these 15 >75 scores he averaged 131.5 at a mammoth str: rate of 96.45 . for Botham the respective figures are 140.78 and 76.45 respectively. only a difference of 9.28 in avg: but difference of 20 w.r.t str: rate in favour of Kapil. that means Botham took 184.15 balls to score 140.78 runs where as Kapil took only 136.34 balls to score 131.5 runs.and what not 4 of these came against rampant West Indies against Botham's '1 such score in home condition'.that all shows how effective a batsman was Kapil to score all these runs in the company of tail enders at a rapid pace. 5. Kapil was the better over all fielder. he could field any where. take catches just like the one he took in the 83 world cup to dismiss Viv.he was brilliant in the slips too.Botham was a specialist in the slips. 6. better captain by a fair distance.lead from the front in the 83 world cup .produced that brilliant 175 not out at a very critical stage of the tournament. he was the batsman of the tournament with a 60.6 avg: and 108.99 str: rate.he took 12 wkts too at 20.41 avg:.took the all important catch of Vivl. and he was easily the best all rounder in the 1992 world cup too for that matter , though past his prime.he led India to series victory in England and some notable performances too with a comparatively weaker team at his disposal. so Kapil wins for me by a fair distance.this is not even a contest

I dont think so

[rtmohanlal]

I dont think so

ok ... i respect your opinion.but can you point out any mistakes in what i said?

[Lurker]

Kapil vs Imran vs Hadlee vs Botham. It is all a matter of timing anyway. All four of them were the best all-rounder at different times. Some of these got better with age and some of these, notably Imran, tend to be looked at in a much better light today than they were when they actually played. Here is an article in 1986 when India beat England in England. Kapil was considered at the time to be the best all-rounder in the game, Indian cricket captain Kapil Dev confirms his credentials as the best all-rounder http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indian-cricket-captain-kapil-dev-confirms-his-credentials-as-the-best-all-rounder/1/348616.html

[Marut]

Kapil vs Botham easy choice... Kapil all the way . reasons .... 1. much longevity than Botham in both forms of the game. 2.easily the better one day player both in batting and bowling 3. slightly better test bowler considering the indian conditions and the little support he got 4.slightly better test batsman. of course this may raise a few eye brows considering that both were aggressive batsmen with Botham having 14 100s to Kapil's 8 and Botham having slightly better bat avg: .but Kapil's str: rate was a mammoth >80 against Botham's 60.Kapil took on the great Windies bowlers while Botham flopped. if we consider >75 test scores Kapil has 15 such scores against Botham's 16 even though they differed in no: of 100s by 6.and in these 15 >75 scores he averaged 131.5 at a mammoth str: rate of 96.45 . for Botham the respective figures are 140.78 and 76.45 respectively. only a difference of 9.28 in avg: but difference of 20 w.r.t str: rate in favour of Kapil. that means Botham took 184.15 balls to score 140.78 runs where as Kapil took only 136.34 balls to score 131.5 runs.and what not 4 of these came against rampant West Indies against Botham's '1 such score in home condition'.that all shows how effective a batsman was Kapil to score all these runs in the company of tail enders at a rapid pace. 5. Kapil was the better over all fielder. he could field any where. take catches just like the one he took in the 83 world cup to dismiss Viv.he was brilliant in the slips too.Botham was a specialist in the slips. 6. better captain by a fair distance.lead from the front in the 83 world cup .produced that brilliant 175 not out at a very critical stage of the tournament. he was the batsman of the tournament with a 60.6 avg: and 108.99 str: rate.he took 12 wkts too at 20.41 avg:.took the all important catch of Vivl. and he was easily the best all rounder in the 1992 world cup too for that matter , though past his prime.he led India to series victory in England and some notable performances too with a comparatively weaker team at his disposal. so Kapil wins for me by a fair distance.this is not even a contest

Kapil had equal or more potential than Botham with the bat, but Botham achieved more with the bat. Botham single handedly contributed to wins with bat and/or ball, but Kapil Dev's bowling brought him most of the wins he was involved in. Botham as a batsman clearly achieved more on the field compared to Kapil. In a test match, that extra strike rate of Kapil Dev down the order does not mean much, when the averages are not different.

[putrevus]

ok ... i respect your opinion.but can you point out any mistakes in what i said?

I am the biggest Kaps fan but if you ever watched both Botham and Kaps, you have give Botham the edge if you are honest. Botham could score 100 and then turn around to take 10 or more wickets like he in golden jublee test that too away from home. Botham had his advantages he was from much more professional side in 1980s and had experience playing in county cricket which was real quality in those days. Kaps was too raw and did not have that polish which Botham possessed especially in batting. But Botham relied more on his talent than hard work that's why he faded away fast. But at their peak Botham was better.

[gazza]

kapil had his moments and was a great all rounder but at the end of it who has more to show? botham has a better bowling average, better batting average, more 10fers, more 5fers, same amount of 4fers, more tons (by a lot), a few short on the 50s but that's because he was much better at converting than kapil, better highest score, similar amount of runs, more catches, more 6s, better strike rate (bowling), better best match bowling figures. kapil has more wickets but that's only because he played quite a few more matches.

[Marut]

kapil had his moments and was a great all rounder but at the end of it who has more to show? botham has a better bowling average' date=' better batting average, more 10fers, more 5fers, same amount of 4fers, more tons (by a lot), a few short on the 50s but that's because he was much better at converting than kapil, better highest score, similar amount of runs, more catches, more 6s, better strike rate (bowling), better best match bowling figures. kapil has more wickets but that's only because he played quite a few more matches.[/quote'] Kapil achieved more in bowling. While comparing their averages and strike rates, note that Botham's home advantage was phenomenal, he was bowling on English wickets that have a lot of swing on offer. Kapil bowled 65% of his matches in the sub continent. Secondly, Kapil reserved his best bowling for the best team of his era, the WI. Botham averaged a mere 40 in the WI and 28 in Australia, while the corresponding figures for Kapil are 23 and 25, which are awesome bowling against strong opposition. For some reason, Kapil did not raise his game against weaker sides like he did against stronger batting sides, especially while playing away, his average of 39 in friendly English conditions being a case in point. Kapil also averaged an extraordinary 26.49 in 65 matches in India, and these are results to be proud of for a subcontinental bowler. Kapil was overall a much superior bowler compared to Botham, and if we take into account the ODIs also, Kapil leaves Botham far behind.

[rtmohanlal]

Kapil had equal or more potential than Botham with the bat' date=' but Botham achieved more with the bat. Botham single handedly contributed to wins with bat and/or ball, but Kapil Dev's bowling brought him most of the wins he was involved in. Botham as a batsman clearly achieved more on the field compared to Kapil. In a test match, that extra strike rate of Kapil Dev down the order does not mean much, when the averages are not different.[/quote'] if Botham achieved more with the bat... then why is his str: rate lagging behind by 20.2 from that of Kapil despite the fact that he had only a mere +2.5 advantage in bat avg: ?we have to keep in mind that this 20.2 is not that minute, infact it is very huge...i feel that scoring in the company of tail enders is much difficult in that tail enders being not that capable with the bat one has to score almost all the runs by himself which Kapil did commendably.and there is more chance of running out of partners as well.infact a middle order bat is more at advantage here because he has decent more technically sound batsmen at the other end who can share the workload with him.if there was a huge difference in their bat avg: then we could have said Botham was the better bat.now what about their performance against the best team of the time, WI with the bat? what about their one day batting? what about the longevity achieved by Kapil in both these aspects? w.r.t no: of 100s yes there was a difference of 6 between them. but their >75 scores were 15 and 16 respectively means keeping aside the statistical attraction of '`100' there was nothing substantially better for Botham in this regard . infact as i said Kapil was better here too because in these 15 >75 scores he averaged 131.5 at a mammoth str: rate of 96.45 . for Botham the respective figures are 140.78 and 76.45 respectively. only a difference of 9.28 in avg: but difference of 20 w.r.t str: rate in favour of Kapil. that means Botham took 184.15 balls to score 140.78 runs where as Kapil took only 136.34 balls to score 131.5 runs.here we can see how quickly Kapil could turn things around.and not forget he has 4 such scores against Windies.and if we go thru these 15 scores we can see that a lot of them were come from behind inns that were capable of altering the result of the match just like his 129 at Port Elizabeth vs SAF.some of them indeed altered the result of the match like his 109 vs AUS in the tiled test.more over Botham had only 36 +50 scores against Kapil's 35.here too not much of a difference. so from the above said crystal clear evidences i have no doubt in my mind that Kapil was the better bat atleast by a small margin

[rtmohanlal]

I am the biggest Kaps fan but if you ever watched both Botham and Kaps, you have give Botham the edge if you are honest. Botham could score 100 and then turn around to take 10 or more wickets like he in golden jublee test that too away from home. Botham had his advantages he was from much more professional side in 1980s and had experience playing in county cricket which was real quality in those days. Kaps was too raw and did not have that polish which Botham possessed especially in batting. But Botham relied more on his talent than hard work that's why he faded away fast. But at their peak Botham was better.

w.r.t peak period, i admit it was a statistical highlight for an allrounder and Botham deserves special marks for that in this comparison exercise.but we must not forget some facts here.this peak period was only for about 4 years which is only a small share of his entire career.this period does not contain any performance against Windies.the Packer series also had a slightly positive effect on this peak period. now w.r.t this 100 runs & 10 wkts matter, if we keep aside these statistical no:s aside , Kapil has also such all round performances. i shall point out some of them. 7 4 84 PAK = 11 wkts + 84 runs 5 3 41,89 ENG= 8 wkts + 130 runs 5 73 pAK 3 126* WI 3 100* WI only that these lagged slightly in those statistical highlights like 100 runs and 5 wkts etc.i am not saying that Botham was not the better in this regard, but it was just that Kapil also had brilliant all round performances. as for the integrity of the data i put forward here , all these can be obtained from cricinfo.you can check

[rtmohanlal]

Kapil achieved more in bowling. While comparing their averages and strike rates, note that Botham's home advantage was phenomenal, he was bowling on English wickets that have a lot of swing on offer. Kapil bowled 65% of his matches in the sub continent. Secondly, Kapil reserved his best bowling for the best team of his era, the WI. Botham averaged a mere 40 in the WI and 28 in Australia, while the corresponding figures for Kapil are 23 and 25, which are awesome bowling against strong opposition. For some reason, Kapil did not raise his game against weaker sides like he did against stronger batting sides, especially while playing away, his average of 39 in friendly English conditions being a case in point. Kapil also averaged an extraordinary 26.49 in 65 matches in India, and these are results to be proud of for a subcontinental bowler. Kapil was overall a much superior bowler compared to Botham, and if we take into account the ODIs also, Kapil leaves Botham far behind.

add to all this he was virtually the lone str: bowler in Indian team especially in abroad conditions. Botham had a slightly better partner in Bob Willis.

[Pakistan]

Ian Botham is greatest all rounder of Fab4, he was true all rounder in every sense, he could bowl , bat like top order batsmen and could walk into any side of his era as batsman.He was one of greatest slip fielders. Kaps was very much in Ian botham mold but he was not as consistent with bat as Botham. Imran was bowler who could bat and Hadlee was a tailender who could bat. In regards to their bowling abilities Hadlee was head and shoulders above all the four no question about it, he just could make the ball talk, The way he moved the ball around even in India was a sight in itself.He took so many wickets with regular swing. Botham was a very underrated bowler but he was very fine bowler he also had very good bowlers in his team to lessen his burden. Imran like Hadlee had so much time to hone his skills and always had good bowlers as support cast but the thing which goes against Imran he was just okay bowler for his first 30 tests . Boom suddenly he picked up the pace and was almost unplayable that too on Pakistan pitches.It just shows if reverse swing did not happen he would have been just okay bowler. How Imran got that reverse swing is very much open to debate since he never could replicate that reverse swing in India if done legitimately why could not he replicate that in India where in 1987 he looked lost as bowler. Kaps outbowled Imran in 1978 in India by a mile and even without reverse swing and biased umpiring he took 24 wickets to Imran's 40. Both Hadlee and Imran came from privileged back grounds had lot of connections in their boards so even though they had not tasted success right away they had many chances to prove their skills. Kaps and Botham were hit straight away and went on to become very young captains. In short Test batting Botham>Kaps>Imran>Hadlee Test Bowling Hadlee>Imran>Botham & Kaps Odi Batting it is no contest Kaps is hands down best. Kaps with his SR and ability to lift his team from certain defeat has no peers. Odi bowling Hadlee>kaps & Imran > Botham.

He was Man of the Series in test series so he could not have been that bad.

if Amir alone was the one to make such remark then it could be discarded as a fake allegation. but then what about he himself admitting to it and 8 others thinking in the same lines?

Imran only admitted doing it in a county match. Lamb and Botham lost cases in British courts on these allegations. Other remarks are by bitter Indian players who kept losing to Pakistan in those days. As my Indian friend and fellow Liverpool supporter like to say reverse swing was cheating until English used it to win Ashes.

[rtmohanlal]

He was Man of the Series in test series so he could not have been that bad. Imran only admitted doing it in a county match. Lamb and Botham lost cases in British courts on these allegations. Other remarks are by bitter Indian players who kept losing to Pakistan in those days. As my Indian friend and fellow Liverpool supporter like to say reverse swing was cheating until English used it to win Ashes.

what ever you may say in defense of Imran, if all the matters i put forward in my topic are taken and analysed with all the events folded in relation to one another , there is every chance to believe that Imran frequently exceeded the limits in ball tampering.this is a matter of pure common sense.

[Sajid_Rana]

Imran averaged 50+ with the bat and under 20 with the ball for a whole decade. Beat that

[rtmohanlal]

Imran averaged 50+ with the bat and under 20 with the ball for a whole decade. Beat that

but if it is thru illegal means like ball tampering at the first case what is there to hype about it?

[Marut]

if Botham achieved more with the bat... then why is his str: rate lagging behind by 20.2 from that of Kapil despite the fact that he had only a mere +2.5 advantage in bat avg: ?we have to keep in mind that this 20.2 is not that minute, infact it is very huge...i feel that scoring in the company of tail enders is much difficult in that tail enders being not that capable with the bat one has to score almost all the runs by himself which Kapil did commendably.and there is more chance of running out of partners as well.infact a middle order bat is more at advantage here because he has decent more technically sound batsmen at the other end who can share the workload with him.if there was a huge difference in their bat avg: then we could have said Botham was the better bat.now what about their performance against the best team of the time, WI with the bat? what about their one day batting? what about the longevity achieved by Kapil in both these aspects? w.r.t no: of 100s yes there was a difference of 6 between them. but their >75 scores were 15 and 16 respectively means keeping aside the statistical attraction of '`100' there was nothing substantially better for Botham in this regard . infact as i said Kapil was better here too because in these 15 >75 scores he averaged 131.5 at a mammoth str: rate of 96.45 . for Botham the respective figures are 140.78 and 76.45 respectively. only a difference of 9.28 in avg: but difference of 20 w.r.t str: rate in favour of Kapil. that means Botham took 184.15 balls to score 140.78 runs where as Kapil took only 136.34 balls to score 131.5 runs.here we can see how quickly Kapil could turn things around.and not forget he has 4 such scores against Windies.and if we go thru these 15 scores we can see that a lot of them were come from behind inns that were capable of altering the result of the match just like his 129 at Port Elizabeth vs SAF.some of them indeed altered the result of the match like his 109 vs AUS in the tiled test.more over Botham had only 36 +50 scores against Kapil's 35.here too not much of a difference. so from the above said crystal clear evidences i have no doubt in my mind that Kapil was the better bat atleast by a small margin

In test cricket, these high strike rates down the order at an average of 30 rarely makes a big difference to the game. Sehwag's strike rates made a big difference because it was done at the top of the order with a high average of 50. Kapil's contributions in test matches were mostly cameos that did not impact the match results in a big way. You are merely trying to compare some numbers between Botham and Kapil here - but Botham won many matches with his batting compared to Kapil. At his peak, Botham was capable of scoring a 100 and also pick up a 5fer in the same match - that kind of skill is almost unparalleled in all of cricket. Very few players have done this feat, but Botham did that several times.

[Marut]

Imran averaged 50+ with the bat and under 20 with the ball for a whole decade. Beat that

50+ average is good - Gavaskar had that average for the same decade. But were Imran and Gavaskar were at the same level due to Imran's 50+ average? For that you have to check how many hundreds and fifties in there. I guess Imran's average is due to a lot of small scores and not outs. High batting average without match winning knocks and huge individual scores don't mean much.