SRT the energizer bunny

[Lurker]

Yes I disagree .. which is why I presented those stats .... the obvious assumption was that in a long innings if you have scored at more than Run a ball it usually means that a player has scored at all times ... especailly in the middle over periods ... unless you are saying that most of the big scores were all compiled within the 15 over period ... And remember untill very recently power play was untill 15 overs only and not 20 overs.

I am not sure whats there to disagree. Viv has better average than SRT. Viv has better SR than SRT. Whats here even to compare? Viv's SR is 90 plus when only Kapil managed that, SRT's SR is 85 when every other batsman averages such a SR. No comparison, Viv was deadlier.

[dial_100]

Lets see ... he played against the Aussies while Lille and Thommo were there together for a grand sum of 12 innings ... and in those innings either Lille or Thommo rarely got beat like how Akhtar and Blee get thulped ... meaning they rarely ever went over 6 rpo .. Lilles worst figues were 10/54 and thommo 10/60 Next up is Hadlee ... he played against WI a grand total of 7 times ... and in those 7 matches Hadlee's worst figures where 10/46 Iam fairly sure that Waz did not play substantial amount of ODIs against Viv ... but when you are determined to not let the facts get in your way I guess nothing matters ... bottom line is Viv thulped the crap out of the second string bowlers of his time ... and name list is something like this : Chatfield snedden Bracewell Ray bright Greg Chappell (lol) Lawson etc etc ... Enough said

Excellent post BB...by giving their worse bowling figures you have proved what Viv dada has done to those bowlers. Look at what SRT has done to many bowlers, McG, Akto, Yonus, Akram, Warne, Ambros. Check their worse against SRT you will know the difference. And who said Viv didn't play Zim and Bongo teams back then. He certainly had SL, ENG and Ind to bang all over. Now we have Zim and Bongadesh.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Lurker]

we are talking as opener ONLY ... where he has played bulk of his ODI cricket ... in that position there is absolutely no match ... SRT As opener has a Avg of 48.25 at a SR of almost 90 ... and has done that for almost twice the amount of time VIV did ..

So you are saying as an opener SRT is the best batsman in LOI. I say who is disagreeing with the fact here? To my best memory Viv never even opened so there is not even a comparison there. But if you are suggesting overall SRT was deadlier than Viv then it is simply not true. I would rate Viv ahead of SRT in overall explosiveness, specially since he could accelerate at the start or towards the end. xxx

[Bongosamaj]

we are talking as opener ONLY ... where he has played bulk of his ODI cricket ... in that position there is absolutely no match ... SRT As opener has a Avg of 48.25 at a SR of almost 90 ... ..

Yup. Which is why SRT = best opener in ODI cricket's history and IVAR = best BATSMAN in ODI cricket's history. Rather simple and not mutually exclusive either.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Predator_05]

Yup. Which is why SRT = best opener in ODI cricket's history and IVAR = best BATSMAN in ODI cricket's history. Rather simple and not mutually exclusive either.

Yep - Tendulkar is the best opener in the history of ODI cricket (by some distance) and also the best bat of his generation. I have seen him play alongside other great ODI batsmen, and the peer consensus is also there to supplement the numbers - that is good enough for me. Don't really care about the "best batsman ever" debate 'cos comparing players from different eras is often a futile exercise

[Gaurav]

Yep - Tendulkar is the best opener in the history of ODI cricket (by some distance) and also the best bat of his generation. I have seen him play alongside other great ODI batsmen' date= and the peer consensus is also there to supplement the numbers - that is good enough for me. Don't really care about the "best batsman ever" debate 'cos comparing players from different eras is often a futile exercise

Spot on! It's painful when our own lot drag down a really awesome player.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bongosamaj]

jo man mei aaya bak diya .... silly kids

Thats you, not us. You are the one who does dodgy stat analysis without proper understanding of statistics and then argues like a moron without an iota of understanding in statistics- this is despite you LYING about your numerous 'degrees' . How hard is it to understand that IVAR > SRT ? Lets see the vital stats comparison here: 1. Overall average : IVAR 2. Overall strike rate : IVAR 3. Quality of opposition : IVAR ( He didn't score cheap runs against Kenya,Bangladesh,Namibia,bermuda,Zimbabe etc) 4. Quality of bowling faced : IVAR (narrowly) 5. Toughness of pitches batted on : IVAR (easily) 6. Hardness of runs scored : IVAR ( no helmets, no 14 over PP rule) 7. Relative to their contemporaries : IVAR ( NOBODY gets close to 47ave + 90 st/r in the 70s-80s era, there are some who are close to 45average + 85 strike rate in today's era) 8. Longetivity : SRT 9. Average away from home : IVAR 10. Runs in finals of ODIs : IVAR Its fairly easy to say IVAR = best ODI batsman EVER. SRT = best ODI opener, 2nd best ODI batsman ever. Take off the jingoistic glasses where your own insecurities make you make up stories about 4 university degrees in 4 different fields and twist stats to try and put an Indian in the top to make up for YOUR inadequacies. Its fairly simple- all NEUTRALS (ie, non desi, non caribbean) fans agree- IVAR > SRT.

[THX_1138]

Thats you, not us. You are the one who does dodgy stat analysis without proper understanding of statistics and then argues like a moron without an iota of understanding in statistics- this is despite you LYING about your numerous 'degrees' . How hard is it to understand that IVAR > SRT ? Lets see the vital stats comparison here: 1. Overall average : IVAR 2. Overall strike rate : IVAR 3. Quality of opposition : IVAR ( He didn't score cheap runs against Kenya,Bangladesh,Namibia,bermuda,Zimbabe etc) 4. Quality of bowling faced : IVAR (narrowly) 5. Toughness of pitches batted on : IVAR (easily) 6. Hardness of runs scored : IVAR ( no helmets, no 14 over PP rule) 7. Relative to their contemporaries : IVAR ( NOBODY gets close to 47ave + 90 st/r in the 70s-80s era, there are some who are close to 45average + 85 strike rate in today's era) 8. Longetivity : SRT 9. Average away from home : IVAR 10. Runs in finals of ODIs : IVAR Its fairly easy to say IVAR = best ODI batsman EVER. SRT = best ODI opener, 2nd best ODI batsman ever. Take off the jingoistic glasses where your own insecurities make you make up stories about 4 university degrees in 4 different fields and twist stats to try and put an Indian in the top to make up for YOUR inadequacies. Its fairly simple- all NEUTRALS (ie, non desi, non caribbean) fans agree- IVAR > SRT.

interesting observations there... pray tell which orifice did they emmerge from?

[Bongosamaj]

interesting observations there... pray tell which orifice did they emmerge from?

What is your problem with my observations ? Viv played only 1 innings vs Zimbabwe and less than 10 innings vs Sri Lanka. Rest ALL of his innings were against the top teams of his era. Tendy has fattened his accounts fair bit compared to Viv, bashing club-level bowling provided by the likes of Kenya,Namibia,Zimbabwe,Bangladesh,etc. Toughness of pitch- its a no-brainer. EVERYONE, including numerous crickinfo articles agree that pitches today are the EASIEST to bat on in ODIs. Evidence also lies in the FACT that run-rates in the 70s and 80s were nowhere close to six per over or even over five per over as it is now the average. And hardness of runs- its fairly categoric that Viv didn't have the luxury to batting with field restrictions making the task of batsmen easier.

[bharat297]

Even though I am a Sachin fan , I am also a big fan of Viv ... its hard to compare the 2 batsman. Viv was no doubt the more explosive of the 2 batsman. Richards was more intimidating and aggressive. However Sachin was aggressive too (still is), Sachin i feel has a bigger appetite for runs, and Sachin has been able to adapt his game to different scenarios. Remember with average and strike rate. Yes Viv is ahead in both (not by a lot though), but the question is ... had Viv played 400 (he has played 187) ODIs would he have been able to maintain those high stats? Dont get me wrong, I am not saying he couldnt or anything, its just something you have to consider before comparing the 2 properly.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bongosamaj]

Not when you are comparing Sachin as an opener ... his avg is better than Vivs and has a same SR and best thing is its over a much larger no.of innings (187 vs 280ish) and the no.of runs is almost doubled.

Opener batting with field restriction is going to have a higher strike rate than a middle order bat with no field restrictions. DUH! This is why Gilly strikes faster than Symonds, anwar faster than Inzy, Gayle faster than Lara, etc etc. Like..DUH! and NO, Tendulkar's strike rate as opener is 87-88. Still short of 90-91 of Viv's despite Tendy batting in an era of faster run scoring. In ODIs, its Viv, then Tendulkar.

[Bongosamaj]

had Viv played 400 (he has played 187) ODIs would he have been able to maintain those high stats? Dont get me wrong, I am not saying he couldnt or anything, its just something you have to consider before comparing the 2 properly.

Dude, its not like Viv played 6-7 years, played 150 odd ODIs and retired. he played for 17 years and for 13 years, he was averaging over 50 in ODIs! That clearly shows that Viv maintained his performance over a very long period of time- it certainly isnt HIS fault that ODIs wernt that common back then but if someone averages 50+ for 13 yrs, there is no questioning the idea that had he played more ODIs in that period, he'd have kept up his average, just like SRT has.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bongosamaj]

The field restriction is limited to few overs (duh) and SRT has 86 50s and 41 hundreds

Field restrictions, until VERY RECENTLY ( and thus, for most of SRT's career) was till 14 overs. Openers already complete their 50s by the 14th over more often than not, so yet another lie of your exposed.

pffft .... I present Hayden, Ganguly , Trescothick , Gibbs , Smith , Greenidge , Haynes etc .... who strike much less than the middle order you listed what now ?

Greenidge & Haynes are of a different era - they were very good strikers for their era. What you presented is a minority case. It is a FACT that openers have better strike rate on average than middle order bats!

wrong its 89% and his avg is 48.25 even with less no.of not outs over nearly 100 more innings .... SRT trumps Viv any which way you look at it ..

I just gave 8-9 reasons where IVAR categorically trumps SRT and you didnt bother challenging that. Look, entire cricket world knows IVAR> SRT in ODIs- only jingoistic indian fans wont see it that way. IVAR has better strike rate in an era where strike rates were LOWER than today. he has better average i an era where scoring runs were HARDER. he has a bigger gap with his peers ( st/r + average) than Tendy. He averaged 50+ in ODIs for most of his career, Tedny never averaged 50 in ODIs. Its IVAR all the way and only the jingoistic fool doesnt see it.

Ownage

you are certainly getting a lesson in it. IVAR > SRT in average IVAR > SRT in strike rate IVAR > SRT in contemporary comparisons IVAR > SRT in finals IVAR > SRT away from home Thats categoric- IVAR all the way over SRT. Too bad yet another jingoistic twist of yours has fallen flat on its face.

[bharat297]

Dude, its not like Viv played 6-7 years, played 150 odd ODIs and retired. he played for 17 years and for 13 years, he was averaging over 50 in ODIs! That clearly shows that Viv maintained his performance over a very long period of time- it certainly isnt HIS fault that ODIs wernt that common back then but if someone averages 50+ for 13 yrs, there is no questioning the idea that had he played more ODIs in that period, he'd have kept up his average, just like SRT has.

His average was 47, but anyway my point (and I didnt explain it well before ... sorry) was that with the magnitude of ODIs Sachin has played it is much more difficult to maintain a high average and strike rate so I rate an average of 44 with SR of 85 as good as an average of 47 with SR of 90. Remember also that Sachin had to often (more times than I can count) deal with batting collapses all round him, and this means that his natural free flowing game has to be reigned in a bit, which lowers the SR. If I had to choose between the 2 (and dont like doing this) I would say Sachin predominantly because of his ability to adapt his game in different situations.

[Bongosamaj]

Remember also that Sachin had to often (more times than I can count) deal with batting collapses all round him, and this means that his natural free flowing game has to be reigned in a bit, which lowers the SR.

Dude, Viv dealt with the ultimate batting collapse and produced the BEST innings in ODI history. Nuff said. There is only one King in ODIs and its Issac Vivian Alexander Richards.

If I had to choose between the 2 (and dont like doing this) I would say Sachin predominantly because of his ability to adapt his game in different situations.

Viv is just as adaptable, if not more, given Viv does better than Tendulkar away from home and in finals of ODI matches(thus showing his pressure-play is just as good, if not better).