The cost of one’s action: When Mohnish Parmar’s innocent idol-worship backfired

[sensible-indian]

Not working for me

Youtube video not playing or you don't see anything problematic with his action?

[Old guy]

The same logic can be said for Ajmal too. Everyone was using his 2009 test results. Umpires had full rights to call him whenever they wanted and none did. NOT EVEN the county ones. We know how that turned out in the end. See the video above. Ojha's bend and extension is definitely on the gray side. Calling his action dodgy is a perfectly reasonable statement.

There is difference between test result and not being reported at all Result happen after some human feels you are dodgy...test only happens after that and once you get tested it proves that atleast there is perception that he chucks but when you are not even called out or waned then everything else is baseless

[Old guy]

Youtube video not playing or you don't see anything problematic?

Not avalible for me in India

[kira]

The same logic can be said for Ajmal too. Everyone was using his 2009 test results. Umpires had full rights to call him whenever they wanted and none did. NOT EVEN the county ones. We know how that turned out in the end. See the video above. Ojha's bend and extension is definitely on the gray side. Calling his action dodgy is a perfectly reasonable statement.

Would you stop comparing him with ajmal....there is a difference in ajmal and ohja...don't you get it....ajmal was chucking 40 degrees for crying out loud....it was so obvious that shane watson even reported it to the umpire in a match...the Indian team also reported him....nothing of that sort has happened with ohja

[kira]

Not avalible for me in India

just open it in new tab on youtube....it will work

[Old guy]

just open it in new tab on youtube....it will work

I am on ipad :(

[sensible-indian]

There is difference between test result and not being reported at all Result happen after some human feels you are dodgy...test only happens after that and once you get tested it proves that atleast there is perception that he chucks but when you are not even called out or waned then everything else is baseless

Ojha's action doesn't involve so much bending and extension like Ajmal. So he was not reported in the old rules (as only bowlers with the worst actions got reported). Forget about technicalities about whether he was reported or not. See his video (maybe via proxy or something) and you will see what I am talking about. In the new rules, his action will be under much bigger scrutiny.

[sensible-indian]

Would you stop comparing him with ajmal....there is a difference in ajmal and ohja...don't you get it....ajmal was chucking 40 degrees for crying out loud....it was so obvious that shane watson even reported it to the umpire in a match...the Indian team also reported him....nothing of that sort has happened with ohja

I am NOT comparing him with Ajmal. Why are you misinterpreting my post? I said the logic being used is what many used to talk about Ajmal. Ojha's HAS NOT been reported till now which shows he is better than them. That does not mean he is safe. His bend and extension is definitely NOT perfectly fine. Only testing can tell us.

[Old guy]

Ojha's action doesn't involve so much bending and extension like Ajmal. So he was not reported in the old rules (as only bowlers with the worst actions got reported). Forget about technicalities about whether he was reported or not. See his video (maybe via proxy or something) and you will see what I am talking about. In the new rules, his action will be under much bigger scrutiny.

Rules are exactly he same as before it's just umpires are asked to report more and I have seen his action lot in test and never thought it was illegal and if it's one of ball then it's not enough to ban some one . I have seen some flex but nothing close to any of bowler recently banned and I think outside of bedi and some forums no one even talks about ojha when discussing about chucking

[kira]

I am NOT comparing him with Ajmal. Why are you misinterpreting my post? I said the logic being used is what many used to talk about Ajmal. Ojha's HAS NOT been reported till now which shows he is better than them. That does not mean he is safe. His bend and extension is definitely NOT perfectly fine. Only testing can tell us.

And I am saying logic used for Ajmal can't be used for other bowlers....Ajmal was blatant while others are marginal....Ojha may or may not be fine....but until he has been reported you can't call his action dodgy....ajmal was reported in 2009 itself so a totally different logic was used there. I could understand your argument if ohja was reported in the past....but apart of some internet warriors , no one has raised a question on his action...so it is unfair on your part to call it dodgy

[BlueBee]

Clearer than Murali

[Old guy]

I am NOT comparing him with Ajmal. Why are you misinterpreting my post? I said the logic being used is what many used to talk about Ajmal. Ojha's HAS NOT been reported till now which shows he is better than them. That does not mean he is safe. His bend and extension is definitely NOT perfectly fine. Only testing can tell us.

Lol...that goes for anyone bud but way it works is .l if you even chuck a bit in domestic cricket you get reported and get tested and this system works since many players have been banned and asked to change action And I think you are confusing Ajmal case with this...in one case many people felt he bucked and he was tested and cleared and in other no one feels ojha chuks while playing in same county tournament and against same team which has biggest problem with chuckers Yeah he can be asked to check but I think system is intentionally made this way that you need umpire to spot illegal ball first and only after that you can be asked for checking otherwise every bowler will be tested.. If it's possible to test everyone,go for it ...but you saying ojha is dodgy is fact or obvious is not really as obvious otherwise he would have been spotted by umpires already or at East some one some where in his career atleast once and no bedi does not counts...he still probably does not knows how this law works :giggle:

[sensible-indian]

Rules are exactly he same as before it's just umpires are asked to report more and I have seen his action lot in test and never thought it was illegal and if it's one of ball then it's not enough to ban some one . I have seen some flex but nothing close to any of bowler recently banned and I think outside of bedi and some forums no one even talks about ojha when discussing about chucking

Rules are same. Its implementation of them that has changed. Yes Ojha is safer than most but see his action and I can only say one thing - He needs to be tested and prove his action. Now I know that's not in his hands but just saying. Just because most people don't talk about him won't help him one bit in the testing lab. Did anyone except Sena to clock 40 degrees (the first bowler to clock that)? Even the ones who called him a chucker didn't expect that much.

[sensible-indian]

And I am saying logic used for Ajmal can't be used for other bowlers....Ajmal was blatant while others are marginal....Ojha may or may not be fine....but until he has been reported you can't call his action dodgy....ajmal was reported in 2009 itself so a totally different logic was used there. I could understand your argument if ohja was reported in the past....but apart of some internet warriors , no one has raised a question on his action...so it is unfair on your part to call it dodgy

For the nth time, dodgy does NOT mean illegal. Dodgy means more scrutiny is needed. Watching his videos, its very clear, his action isn't perfectly fine.

[sensible-indian]

Lol...that goes for anyone bud but way it works is .l if you even chuck a bit in domestic cricket you get reported and get tested and this system works since many players have been banned and asked to change action And I think you are confusing Ajmal case with this...in one case many people felt he bucked and he was tested and cleared and in other no one feels ojha chuks while playing in same county tournament and against same team which has biggest problem with chuckers Yeah he can be asked to check but I think system is intentionally made this way that you need umpire to spot illegal ball first and only after that you can be asked for checking otherwise every bowler will be tested.. If it's possible to test everyone,go for it ...but you saying ojha is dodgy is fact or obvious is not really as obvious otherwise he would have been spotted by umpires already or at East some one some where in his career atleast once and no bedi does not counts...he still probably does not knows how this law works :giggle:

Why are we even discussing this? I know the rules. I know the process of how bowlers have to get reported. We are talking about the ideal case. Dodgy means more scrutiny is needed. It doesn't mean illegal.

[Old guy]

Rules are same. Its implementation of them that has changed. Yes Ojha is safer than most but see his action and I can only say one thing - He needs to be tested and prove his action. Now I know that's not in his hands but just saying. Just because most people don't talk about him won't help him one bit in the testing lab. Did anyone except Sena to clock 40 degrees (the first bowler to clock that)? Even the ones who called him a chucker didn't expect that much.

You do not get to decide...umpires do And his action is not obviously dodgy if it was he would have been tested already .. This "obvious" part if it was true then he would have been atleast called for testing once or atleast come into so e lime light And 40 degrees on quicker deliveries is hard to see ..after all it's flexing and on TV you just cannot measure angle but people have been spot on about who are chucking ...the angle is irrelevant and I. Ajmal it was obvious he was bending it over 30 degrees but it was not obvious what he was straining it too .. So if you asked me what angle Ajmal is bending I would have said it's over 30 or even more but I still would not have been sure about actual chucking :winky: With ojha I do not even feel he bends more than 20 degrees ...does it makes sense ?

[Old guy]

Why are we even discussing this? I know the rules. I know the process of how bowlers have to get reported. We are talking about ideal case. Dodgy means more scrutiny is needed. It doesn't mean illegal.

No dodgy means you are bad enough that you get checked anything less than it is clean ...now what you feel dodgy might be different but I am going with rules and it's important to keep this in context because what you are suggesting is system where everyone gets checked. Trust me you have to be consistent you either test all of them or guys who are spotted to be dodgy ..it is very important to be very consistent with this stuff as you will set a precedent where every time someone I media feels that guy is dodgy that guy would need to be tested and it will happen again and again as Ajmal showed you can be legal at one time and illegal at another ...do you really want that to happen ?

[sensible-indian]

You do not get to decide...umpires do And his action is not obviously dodgy if it was he would have been tested already .. This "obvious" part if it was true then he would have been atleast called for testing once or atleast come into so e lime light And 40 degrees on quicker deliveries is hard to see ..after all it's flexing and on TV you just cannot measure angle but people have been spot on about who are chucking ...the angle is irrelevant and I. Ajmal it was obvious he was bending it over 30 degrees but it was not obvious what he was straining it too .. So if you asked me what angle Ajmal is bending I would have said it's over 30 or even more but I still would not have been sure about actual chucking :winky: With ojha I do not even feel he bends more than 20 degrees ...does it makes sense ?

If 2 students fail, both are called failures. Even the 39 marks guy and the 5 marks guy. You say Ojha won't even bend more than 20 degrees. So there is possibility of him doing 15-20 (maybe in his effort balls). The VERY FACT that we have this doubt makes it dodgy (in others words scrutiny is needed). When a bowler is considered clean, people have NO DOUBTS that he would NOT exceed beyond 15. If you have doubts, then yes its dodgy.

[sensible-indian]

No dodgy means you are bad enough that you get checked anything less than it is clean ...now what you feel dodgy might be different but I am going with rules and it's important to keep this in context because what you are suggesting is system where everyone gets checked. Trust me you have to be consistent you either test all of them or guys who are spotted to be dodgy ..it is very important to be very consistent with this stuff as you will set a precedent where every time someone I media feels that guy is dodgy that guy would need to be tested and it will happen again and again as Ajmal showed you can be legal at one time and illegal at another ...do you really want that to happen ?

Dodgy means it needs scrutiny. That's all. Bud, you assumed that I called Ojha a chucker cos you thought by dodgy I meant he is hopelessly bad. That's not the case.

[Old guy]

If 2 students fail, both are called failures. Even the 39 marks guy and the 5 marks guy. You say Ojha won't even bend more than 20 degrees. So there is possibility of him doing 15-20 (maybe in his effort balls). The VERY FACT that we have this doubt makes it dodgy (in others words scrutiny is needed). When a bowler is considered clean, people have NO DOUBTS that he would exceed beyond 15. If you have doubts, then yes its dodgy.

Dude bending your arm is legal but flexing it is not Of you start at 20 degrees and finish at 15 that beans flex was 5 degrees no ?