The myth that Younis Khan is a GREAT Test batsman.....

[Dil Dil India]

Given his horrific ODI career(I won't call it form - form doesn't last 260 matches), it has become somewhat fashionable to trot out the line "he is a GREAT test batsman but a poor ODI batsman"...but the question is, is he really a great batsman in the true sense of the word? First off, he's clearly a very good batsman. No one who scores that many runs can be crap. Now that that little disclaimer is out of the way...let's have a look at his test 100s and other numbers. 15 of his 28 centuries have come vs India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe. Yes, 15. Now I know some people will point out that he faced SL attacks that had Murali but let's remember SL and Pak (and also India vs Pak) played each other mostly on dead pitches where 700 vs 600 was the norm. This is the record away from the subcontinent(excluding Zimbabwe): 26 matches, 48 innings, 1886 runs@41.00 with 4 centuries. ("FTB" Sehwag had more tons outside the SC, Kohli got 4 tons in Aus in a single series :hysterical:!) And before someone claims he played very little outside the SC - blame his fishing trips for that! He missed tours to Aus and NZ because he had to go fishing We must remember that only 3 Asian batsmen average 50+ using the aforementioned criteria(and they all reside on this side of the border) so an average of 41 is still decent. However what it does show is that he's not what he is made out to be in Tests. His poor ODI showing is - wait for it- actually inflating his test credentials! In fact this is his overall record(i.e including UAE bashing and home games) vs Australia, England, SA, NZ and WI : 51 matches, 96 innings, 45.59 average and 13 tons. Not horrible but it does suggest he's inflated his numbers against a combination of rubbish pitches and crap attacks.

[sweetaskandy]

Ave of 46 v those sides is excellent. Also are India and us minnows to exclude returns v us? He is a top class batsman, man. Dont take I/P rivalry to stupid ends.

[Guldozer]

Ave of 46 v those sides is excellent. Also are India and us minnows to exclude returns v us? He is a top class batsman, man. Dont take I/P rivalry to stupid ends.

Agreed. Those stats are brilliant for someone who isn't considered to be an ATG as of yet. In fact, if anything, he is only underrated by the majority.

[HippoSucks]

He is definitely a good Test batsman, but far from being an ATG in my eyes.

[Dil Dil India]

He is definitely a good Test batsman' date=' but far from being an ATG in my eyes.[/quote'] Yes agree. @SweetasKandy - which was my initial point. He's a very good test batsman but far from being an ATG. I suppose I was merely basing my OP on the expectedly OTT views of fans from a certain country though. My bad.

[HippoSucks]

He averages 23 in West Indies, 43 in Australia, 32 in South Africa and 41 in Sri Lanka. Not bad at all, but worth being called an all time great? Definitely not.

[Bleed-Blue]

Great By Pakistani Standards Comparing to the Rest Of the Test Playing Nations I'd Say Very Good Imo He Is On Similar Level to Jayawardene

[sweetaskandy]

ATG means a genuine candidate for AT X1. Very few players are in that class. He is in the next rank - excellent player.

[sweetaskandy]

Only 2 Indians are ATGs, 2 Pakistanis and I'd say 2 of us: SRT, Gavaskar, Wasim, Imran, Murali, Sangakarra These are the only Asians who may honestly fight for AT X1 or AT X1 2.0 places.

[vvvslaxman]

He was one of the crunch players for them like Laxman for us. On that aspect he was better than Moyo.

[Dil Dil India]

Only 2 Indians are ATGs, 2 Pakistanis and I'd say 2 of us: SRT, Gavaskar, Wasim, Imran, Murali, Sangakarra These are the only Asians who may honestly fight for AT X1 or AT X1 2.0 places.

Dravid? Averages 50 plus away from the SC. What about Waqar? Sangakkara is very debatable. Personally his away record is still iffy for me(Kohli has as many centuries outside SC as Sanga already and Rahane is close to having as many 40 plus average series as Sanga outside SC..) but for the sake of the discussion if you are including him then no way you can't have Waqar or Dravid....pakistani fans would argue Miandad is better than Sanga :winky:

[sweetaskandy]

Regarding ATG's - by my understanding which is a strict one, about 10 WI and 10 Aussies qualify. A few Saffers, English, 1 Kiwi.

[sweetaskandy]

Dravid? Averages 50 plus away from the SC. What about Waqar? Sangakkara is very debatable. Personally his away record is still iffy for me(Kohli has as many centuries outside SC as Sanga already and Rahane is close to having as many 40 plus average series as Sanga outside SC..) but for the sake of the discussion if you are including him then no way you can't have Waqar or Dravid....pakistani fans would argue Miandad is better than Sanga :winky:

Honestly Dravid is excellent but not ATG on my terms. Would you honestly pick him for the AT World Test x1 or 2nd X1? No - too many #3's are before him. Waqar - maybe, I did consider adding him. Prime Waqar was an animal. His S/R was pure Hollywood. Waqar may make someone's honest cut for a fast bowling slot but I'd probably not select him. Still I can accept him. 350 plus wickets at 23 (?) with S/R of 43 or something is amazing.

[sweetaskandy]

Miandad, Dravid, even Jayawardene, Inzamam and the like are era greats for me, maybe national AT X1 calibre but not in line to fight for AT World X1 or 2nd X1.

[Dil Dil India]

Miandad' date=' Dravid, even Jayawardene, Inzamam and the like are era greats for me, maybe national AT X1 calibre but not in line to fight for AT World X1 or 2nd X1.[/quote'] Fair enough that's your view;I have the exact same views about Sangakkara. Just different opinions, no biggie.