What HTH would you rather have? Pakistan's 85-66 advantage over India in all formats or India's 11-2 HTH advantage in ICC tournaments?

[HippoSucks]

So?  

It tells - Ind played a lot more tests than Pakistan. It may have lost series by huge margins and won series by smaller margins translating in to a relatively unfavorable W/L.  To illustrate:

Team X

Series A: 1-4, Series B: 2-1, Series 3: 1-0 = W/L = 4/5 = 0.8 .... But Won 2 series and lost one

Team Y

Series A: 1-2, Series B: 3-1, Series 3: 0-1= W/L = 4/4 = 1  .... But Won 1 series and lost two 

 

More importantly: Ind was number 1 for 15 months in the 70s and 6 months in the '80-'81 period. Additionally, Ind won two marque ODI tournaments in that period. So overall, it is India! 

 

 

 

 

Pakistan also could have lost series by large margins or won series by small margins. That might affect India more since they played more tests, but not enough to reduce the W/L ratio by half. 

Rankings aren't that important. They depend on the strength of the other teams which always fluctuates. For example, Australia, despite having Joe Burns as the openers, are ranked #1 right now. 

I am talking about tests only. 

[zen]

Pakistan also could have lost series by large margins or won series by small margins. That might affect India more since they played more tests, but not enough to reduce the W/L ratio by half. 

Rankings aren't that important. They depend on the strength of the other teams which always fluctuates. For example, Australia, despite having Joe Burns as the openers, are ranked #1 right now. 

I am talking about tests only. 

From 50s-mid 80s (the period discussed) Pak had the best W/L ratio at home. Pakistan at home .... And that is the big reason for its relatively better W/L ratio

People know how Pak won at home   ..... What is interesting is that Pak only lost 1 test at home in the 70s-mid 80s period Link 

 

Hopefully, you are not naive enough to take that^ W/L ratio at its face value and therefore the overall W/L ratio on which you are making your points 

/discussion

 

Looking at various factors including overall, Ind is the better side in the period discussed 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2016 by rett

[HippoSucks]

From 50s-mid 80s (the period discussed) Pak had the best W/L ratio at home. Pakistan at home .... And that is the big reason for its relatively better W/L ratio

People know how Pak won at home   ..... What is interesting is that Pak only lost 1 test at home in the 70s-mid 80s period Link 

 

Hopefully, you are not naive enough to take that^ W/L ratio at its face value and therefore the overall W/L ratio on which you are making your points 

/discussion

 

Looking at various factors including overall, Ind is the better side in the period discussed 

 

 

 

Biased home umpiring was occurring in other countries as well, although perhaps less prominently. There wasn't that much difference in umpiring standards to make their home W/L ratio that much better than the other teams. 

Pakistan is also ahead of India in terms of W/L ratio away from home, although not by a very large margin. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;spanmax1=1+Jan+1985;spanmin1=1+Jan+1950;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;spanmax1=1+Jan+1985;spanmin1=1+Jan+1950;spanval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team 

Pakistan were clearly better in tests from 1950 to 1985. Overall, I would say Pakistan are slightly ahead of India as a test team. Statistically Pakistan is much better, but based on the quality of players produced, there is not a large difference. 

[zen]

Biased home umpiring was occurring in other countries as well, although perhaps less prominently. There wasn't that much difference in umpiring standards to make their home W/L ratio that much better than the other teams. 

Pakistan is also ahead of India in terms of W/L ratio away from home, although not by a very large margin. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;spanmax1=1+Jan+1985;spanmin1=1+Jan+1950;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;spanmax1=1+Jan+1985;spanmin1=1+Jan+1950;spanval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team 

Pakistan were clearly better in tests from 1950 to 1985. Overall, I would say Pakistan are slightly ahead of India as a test team. Statistically Pakistan is much better, but based on the quality of players produced, there is not a large difference. 

I know all those stats .... Away record only tells that one team lost 1-3 while the other lost 1-4. And those losses would also depend up on when and which countries the two teams toured. Pak has won two overseas series and that too in NZ ('72 and '78). While Ind has won in NZ ('67), WI ('70) and Eng ('71)

1960-1975

^ Pak has just 3 Test wins in 16 years! 

From 1976 to 1984, Pak's W/L ratio improves dramatically - Link, Thanks to its home record of 16/1 due to umpiring, bottle caps, etc. 

In the discussed period:

• Ind was #1 in rankings twice
• Won more series abroad in more countries
• Has fantastic ODI achievements ('83 World Cup and '85 World Series) in that period

But you are entitled to your opinion if it hurts to imagine that Ind was a better side (and overall in all formats) in that period 

Edited March 3, 2016 by rett