Gujrat Ka Sach - Part 2

[Ram]

We are getting somwehere so he did sthg ( better than bharat-ratna mass murderer rajeev gandhi I guess) in ur view it was not enough' date=' well that's opinion now u know why despite this opniinoted rants of 6 years no court entertains u guys.. I believe it was enough and proof is in pudding weindina have habit of killing thousands over none-issue like goddess statue passed neaer the mosque and in a country like this if he checked the riot to the extent where desptie a provcation like godhara head-count was withitn 1000 then I give him job well done khitab.. It cud have bene a lot worse if not acted swiftly.. U guys can keep arguing he cud have done still better job and that point is well taken. Everyone wants zero death but taking into consideration indian milieu and Gujraat mileu[b'] in my view he did his best..

There was no discussion on February 27, 2002 at the meeting held at Chief Minister Narendra Modi's house to counter the communal backlash anticipated after the Godhra incident," Pandey said,"

He did best, absolutely !

[Guest dada_rocks]

DR is highlighting the Hindu deaths in the riots as though they are miracles ! What do you expect ? The Guj govt to have made public announcements that " only muslims will be killed in police firing ? " And again , when there is a riot and two mobs clash, and police firing happens, people from both sides die... unless of course the hindus were given orange jackets ! :haha:

No sir again u gave the seven facts a miss.. Majority of hindu death was due to police firing.... Obviously those who are aggrssive needs to be fired at hence more hindu died in police firing.. later on muslim counter-attack happend and they too died in police firing As far as what Gujraat police wud have done if wanted to aid rioters; well ask ur messiha Rajeev gandhi he will let u know how it's done.. They cud have slept over all this like Delhi police under rajeev bharat-ratna Gandhi's watch..:hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

He did best' date=' absolutely ![/quote'] So one commissiner of police didn;t get the direct brief do u even have idea how many of those rside in one state.. Moreover saain-baba 's service was not available next time he will better his past response thanks to MM:hysterical:

[Ram]

No sir again u gave the seven facts a miss.. Majority of hindu death was due to police firing.... Obviously those who are aggrssive needs to be fired at hence more hindu died in police firing.. later on muslim counter-attack happend and they too died in police firing As far as what Gujraat police wud have done if wanted to aid rioters; well ask ur messiha Rajeev gandhi he will let u know how it's done.. They cud have slept over all this like Delhi police under rajeev bharat-ratna Gandhi's watch..:hysterical:

How do you know that ? "fact 7" says,

n answer to the Parliament questions, the UPA Home Minister gave the figures of casualties during Gujarat riots. There were Muslims killed 790, Hindus killed 254, wounded 2500 in all missing 223. Thus this proves the lies that what happened in Gujarat was a one-sided affair for every three Muslims who died in Gujarat, one Hindu was also killed.

It never says they were killed by police firing.. they could have been killed by muslim rioters.

[Ram]

So one commissiner of police didn;t get the direct brief do u even have idea how many of those rside in one state.. Moreover saain-baba 's service was not available next time he will better his past response thanks to MM:hysterical:

If you dont give importance to what the police commissioner of a city has to say, who else will you attach importance ? The tax commissioner ?:haha:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Hahaha... When it should have been done on march Feb 27th itself ? Shoot at sight orders given to him ? The Guj police ? You mean the same Guj police that cordoned off muslim areas so that they cant escape from attacking hindu rioters ? :haha: All you have is a bunch of govt orders and some court rulings, we have shown comprehensive proof from several police officials in Guj on how the govt was complicit in the riots.

Baseless rant can't be verified.. BTW who they sud have fired at on 27th ..sai-baba if have u figured out ways to find who is about to riot even before they do, it;s great news :hysterical: Keep chewing on these someday u will see the light.. The Hindu", the leading-most South India daily reported on 1st March 2002 : "The Chief Minister Modi frantically asked for the Army units to be called in." On 2nd March 2002 'The Hindu' reported : "Unlike February 28 when one community was entirely at the receiving end, the minority backlash on 1st March has further worsened the situation .......... and the Army staged a flag march in Ahemedabad on 1 st March 2002 at 9.00 A.M." Fact 1: That SHOOT AT SIGHT ORDERS had been given by the Government on 28th itself. Very day riot broke out Fact 2: On the 28th February itself 10 Hindus had been shot dead and 16 Hindus had been wounded by POLICE BULLETS. Fact 3: On the next day i.e., 1st March an additional 24 Hindus were shot dead and 40 Hindus wounded by POLICE BULLETS.

[Guest dada_rocks]

If you dont give importance to what the police commissioner of a city has to say' date=' who else will you attach importance ? The tax commissioner ?:haha:[/quote'] Sain-baba there are seeral cities and several police commissioners one didn't get the direct brief I guess he had his own sense in place.... Koi baby nahin hai jo bataya jaye had he gottne any directive to not act then i wud have bought that as an argument for guilt.. Ask urself this question if he had to abet riot why wouldhe call army give police firing order.. He cud have very well done a Rajeevgandhi on GUjraat

[sandtest]

Perhaps, NRIs here need to do more research and get first hand account of situation during any riot from the people who live in India and have witnessed riots, before passing their value judgements, through some anglicized western HRW reports. I have personally experineced the Mumbai riots of 92, when we were living in Muslim dominated area in Jogeshwari and have shift to further towards Goeregaon once the riots started. First day of the riots are based on the emotion after some shocking incidents and people from all walks of life get involved. After second day onwards "Gunda elements" take over and it is free for all. There is nothing much police can do when people are emotionally charged during riots and policfe is outnumbered....and what media is forgetiing is basic FACT that HINDUs are also sufferres, but unfortunately it's only Muslims "presented" as victims.

[sandtest]

Media has spinned the riots in Gujarat by using many psy-ops words like "pogrom", "genocide", "holocaust" and "ethinc cleansing" and what not!! If there is ethnic cleansing in Gujarat, how is it that the percentage of muslims in Gujarat is steadily increasing and is now over 12% . At the time of independence it was probably around 9%. Contrast with pakistan which is adjacent to Gujarat. In 1947 even after the Partition migrations there were 15% hindus in Pakistan (or rougly 5 million). Today that number is down to 1 to 2 million and the percentage is around 1%. What happened to the rest ??? I think it is a fair guess that there was extensive ethnic cleansing in pakistan. In India also there is ethnic cleansing. But the ones who are being cleansed are Hindus not Muslims.

[fineleg]

If you dont give importance to what the police commissioner of a city has to say' date=' who else will you attach importance ? The tax commissioner ?:haha:[/quote'] Brilliant digging up facts by mm and shwetabh Tremendous work to expose the lies that have been propagated by the brigade :thumbs_up:

[kumble_rocks]

Jesus ! DR , Now you know the fact that in this age of technological advancements , a simple click of the mouse can fetch you all sorts of information .. it's just that most posters here including yours truly don't have the same passion (CC excluding) to debate like yourself and some others here . That could explain why your Gujarat ka sach thread was orphaned for so long . But your repeatedly baiting proved counter productive for you, alas. Admit it that Gujarat ka sach - 2 thread is damning and fitting reply to your part 1 thread. The way I see it , you are trying to wiggle out from uncomfortable facts ... And your modus operandi is criticize the posters and engage us in a mental gymnastics by invoking congress , tipu , timbuktu and what not ..

[Ram]

DR wont acknowledge that Modi committed a himalayan blunder in not discussing law and order in the meeting he had with the police commissioner on the 27th of Feb, saying things like Modi was a "new CM" and he had to "visit the victims".. I suppose there is simply no point discussing this matter with him. And whenever any one of us point out the Guj govt's duplicity in the riots, they point out the role of Rajiv Gandhi in the 84 riots. it seems, for them, the standard should be based on the worst and not the best. Who cares what Cong did/didnt do during the 84 riots ? The debate is not about that. I openly call any third party judge, who has absolutely nothing to do with modi , to go through the thread and pronounce a judgment on who is right and who is wrong. The modi camp, has till now, conveniently avoided key questions that form the basis for the debate.

[Ram]

Baseless rant can't be verified.. BTW who they sud have fired at on 27th ..sai-baba if have u figured out ways to find who is about to riot even before they do, it;s great news :hysterical: Keep chewing on these someday u will see the light.. The Hindu", the leading-most South India daily reported on 1st March 2002 : "The Chief Minister Modi frantically asked for the Army units to be called in." On 2nd March 2002 'The Hindu' reported : "Unlike February 28 when one community was entirely at the receiving end, the minority backlash on 1st March has further worsened the situation .......... and the Army staged a flag march in Ahemedabad on 1 st March 2002 at 9.00 A.M." Fact 1: That SHOOT AT SIGHT ORDERS had been given by the Government on 28th itself. Very day riot broke out Fact 2: On the 28th February itself 10 Hindus had been shot dead and 16 Hindus had been wounded by POLICE BULLETS. Fact 3: On the next day i.e., 1st March an additional 24 Hindus were shot dead and 40 Hindus wounded by POLICE BULLETS.

All you have to show is some useless court orders, while we have shown VERIFIED testimonies of the victims and the police of how the govt was complicit in the riots. A govt should be judged not on what it orders, but what it does on the ground, understand that. And why havent you not yet responded to my doubt over fact 7, where you claimed all hindu deaths were due to police firing ? when its quite clear that that isnt the case.

[Ram]

Jesus ! DR ' date=' Now you know the fact that in this age of technological advancements , [b']a simple click of the mouse can fetch you all sorts of information .. it's just that most posters here including yours truly don't enjoy the same passion (CC excluding) to debate like you and some others do here . That could explain why your Gujarat ka sach thread was orphaned for so long . But your repeatedly baiting proved counter productive for you, alas. Admit it that Gujarat ka sach - 2 thread is damning and fitting reply to your part 1 thread. The way I see it , you are trying to wiggle out from uncomfortable facts ... And your modus operandi is criticize the posters and engage us in a mental gymnastics by invoking congress , tipu , timbuktu and what not ..

That is the thing, BB is yet to provide answers for even a single question that i have raised. All he has given so far is some rhetorical questions in return, some irrelevant references to the supreme court, and even more irrelevant references to how i didnt engage with him in the Babri Masjid thread because i was quite siply not interested. To go with that, he has repeatedly try to make this a Him Vs Me thread. Unfortunately, i have been on this MB for long enough to see through those childish tactics. Still waiting for an answer from him on the OP. All i have is deafening silence. Even on the remotely relevant answers that he has given, they havent gone past a single line and are again, mostly questions borne out of my responses. And DR comes up and says Modi didnt not discuss law and order situation with the Guj police commissioner on the 27th of Feb, just a day before the riots, saying he was a "New CM and could have not have anticipated the riots". What can one say about such ridiculous reasoning ? No point debating anymore.. The Modi-is-my-hero fellows have been brutally exposed in this debate.

[fineleg]

Jesus ! DR ' date=' Now you know the fact that in this age of technological advancements , [b']a simple click of the mouse can fetch you all sorts of information .. it's just that most posters here including yours truly don't have the same passion (CC excluding) to debate like yourself and some others here . That could explain why your Gujarat ka sach thread was orphaned for so long . But your repeatedly baiting proved counter productive for you, alas. Admit it that Gujarat ka sach - 2 thread is damning and fitting reply to your part 1 thread. The way I see it , you are trying to wiggle out from uncomfortable facts ... And your modus operandi is criticize the posters and engage us in a mental gymnastics by invoking congress , tipu , timbuktu and what not ..

Kumble rocks, Nice summary, hats off :hatsoff:

[The Outsider]

If we choose to go down the "official" path of reports and court rulings then even the Godhra incident was because people were cooking in the railway compartment. And there is a huge "report" and "facts" to back that up as well.:hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

If we choose to go down the "official" path of reports and court rulings then even the Godhra incident was because people were cooking in the railway compartment. And there is a huge "report" and "facts" to back that up as well.:hysterical:

Which official part is that last time I checked the only official report is yet to come..:hysterical:.. Laloo's report has been dumped by hsi own UPA govt let us not even start how court view that toilet paper report.. give it another try :hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Brilliant digging up facts by mm and shwetabh Tremendous work to expose the lies that have been propagated by the brigade :thumbs_up:

Facts:hysterical: Same litany of he said she said.. still none of those seven points any of these people have dared to touch trying their best to drown those facst by pasting editorials after editorial which have been the modus operandi but rest assured I am not leting them off the hook will keep slapping those facst in their face..

[Guest dada_rocks]

How do you know that ? "fact 7" says, It never says they were killed by police firing.. they could have been killed by muslim rioters.

Banki ke facts check karo....

[Guest dada_rocks]

Jesus ! DR ' date=' Now you know the fact that in this age of technological advancements , [b']a simple click of the mouse can fetch you all sorts of information .. it's just that most posters here including yours truly don't have the same passion (CC excluding) to debate like yourself and some others here . That could explain why your Gujarat ka sach thread was orphaned for so long . But your repeatedly baiting proved counter productive for you, alas. Admit it that Gujarat ka sach - 2 thread is damning and fitting reply to your part 1 thread. The way I see it , you are trying to wiggle out from uncomfortable facts ... And your modus operandi is criticize the posters and engage us in a mental gymnastics by invoking congress , tipu , timbuktu and what not ..

That's why so far all u guys have got is editorial and some Muslim rights commisison BS where is the fact go ahead google as much as u want wud lilke those seven points to be refuted .. U guys are allergic to facts even now u have religiously skirted those facts .. Where is the fact which says Modi was abettor I am yet to find any to the contrary I have produced many go ahead muster cajones and face those seven facts..