SachDan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Sachin and Umpires testified that they never heard any thing racist being said by Bhajji... Procter just took the words of Bunny,Pup-the cheat and all muscle-no brain Mathew... There was no Video or Audio evidence for him to take such a big decision. When Sachin was accused of ball tampering,we were all after just one man...Mike Dennes. Now nowhere is Procter being crucified....Why?????????? It was entirely his decision. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 TV umpire who was also aussie should be crucified as well. After shockingly giving symond not out on tv evidence when clearly was OUT. BLATANT CHEATING Bruce Oxenford CHEAT Link to comment
Rajan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Procter satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that Bhajji meant to offend Symonds http://icc-cricket.yahoo.com/media-release/2008/january/media-release20080107-7.html ICC Media release: ============================= This takes the cake: "I am satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that Harbhajan Singh directed that word at Andrew Symonds and also that he meant it to offend on the basis of Symonds’ race or ethnic origin,” said Mr Procter. in the absence of independednt video or audio evidence, Mr.Referee is satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt and more importantly, Harbhajan MEANT to offend on the bais of Symonds race or ethnic origin.Just incredible to understand how he can be so certain? by the way, I had watched Hayden crossing over and even coming in to the discussion with Harbhajan when he was talking to Symonds. But I have not seen Mr.Honesty Personified- Clarke any where around. how does the Referee arrive at this conclusive proof, did he watch the full video recording of the session in question? how come SB, MB and SRT miss out on hearing something which was heard clearly by Hayden and Clarke? what was the instant reaction of the 3 players when they heard "the" word? i am not sure some one who is as aggressive as Symonds, who takes offence to Harbhajan tapping Lee on his bottom, will just walk away of he is " racially" absued!!! and what exactly did Symonds tell Harbhajan about tapping Lee on the back? was Procter influenced by Malcolm Speed's criticism for letting Yuvi off with out any punishment? Link to comment
aussiefan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 on another forum someone mentions being able to lip read bhajji's mouth and claims he says something close to "monkey"... i have not seen this, am not saying it's true but would love to see any footage of this so called/claimed scene.... we've seen some great videos here on this site, can anyone find this too? I am looking for it as we speak. ps, why if monkey is not offensive in india, was it "allegedly" directed only ( or reported by aussie team ) at Symonds? because of the colour of his skin?> Link to comment
beetle Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 BCCI should complain of racism because this is ...... Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 wow someone was able to lip read something that no one including Channel 9 was able to do Link to comment
CC1981 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 why if monkey is not offensive in india, was it "allegedly" directed only ( or reported by aussie team ) at Symonds? because of the colour of his skin?>It IS an offensive term- it means pratt/a$$hole/trouble/jacka$$ etc..however, it is NOT a racist term. How hard is that for you to grasp ? As for why it was directed- for one, that Bhajji said this is NOT a proven case. And when Symonds got called a monkey by the crowd in India, he richly deserved it because he most definitely was *THE* pratt of the series, with Sreesanth a close second. For two, even if Bhajji said it- he CANNOT be accused of racism- he can be accused of being an idiot and not knowing how it'd be taken in Australia- because a man's idea of slurs/analogies do not just change in a 15 hour flight- Bhajji's concept of what he intends by calling someone a 'monkey' is still relevant to the Indian cultural definition, not the Aussie/western cultural one. It is just THAT simple. PS: Lip-reading is CRAP. Take it from someone who is fluent in multiple languages (which i don't think YOU can claim), if you can lip-read any but a 'few' specific words, you are a liar of the highest order. As far as i am concerned, this is a cr@p decision, because Ponting + Symonds have no credibility over that of Tendulkar. And i've already exposed the fallacy in your '2 Aussies vs 1 Indian' illogic, so don't even go there. Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 on another forum someone mentions being able to lip read bhajji's mouth and claims he says something close to "monkey"... i have not seen this, am not saying it's true but would love to see any footage of this so called/claimed scene.... we've seen some great videos here on this site, can anyone find this too? I am looking for it as we speak. ps, why if monkey is not offensive in india, was it "allegedly" directed only ( or reported by aussie team ) at Symonds? because of the colour of his skin?> where is the proof ? where is the witness ? It is just symonds word against Bhajji's ... If he said it then he must be punished but where is the proof or a witness ... Link to comment
Rajan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Quote: ps, why if monkey is not offensive in india, was it "allegedly" directed only ( or reported by aussie team ) at Symonds? because of the colour of his skin?> I read somewhere in another forum-SB favoured Andrew symonds right thru the test 1.Not giving him out when he snicked big time on 30 2.Not sending to 3rd umpire for stumping when he was on 140+ 3.not giving out first ball in second innings on a 50-50 shout 4. Giving out Dravid, when he clearly did not nick it, off symonds because, of racial favouritism or the colour of his skin " how is that? Link to comment
aussiefan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 hmmm, wont bother to get personal as others have. why did bcci initially deny monkey chants happened in india, claim symonds was lying, when photos arise say ok, yes it happened, arrest these guys etc and call for all racism to stop? then when in australia singh uses this word knowing full well his own cricket board has admitted this is racism, or would play as racism in australia? either he is an idiot or is racist or both....which is it? desi, i am not saying there is proof but it has been decided by match umpire that he did do this....you would have to ask procter not me. and if indian side put in half as much effort into their circket as they did about this whole incident, no one would ever beat them. i am looking for this clipo, i am not saying it is proof, i said quite clearly that somewhere else someone said they viewed it. Link to comment
CC1981 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 why did bcci initially deny monkey chants happened in india, claim symonds was lying, when photos arise say ok, yes it happened, arrest these guys etc and call for all racism to stop? Because BCCI has a long history of direction-less politicking and kissing up to the ICC ever since Dalmiya was ousted ? desi, i am not saying there is proof but it has been decided by match umpire that he did do this....you would have to ask procter not me. Like i said before, i find it ironic that a black umpire totally favoured the ONLY black (and fellow half-jamaican) player in the match, that a white saffie from apartheid era took the word of a white captain and yet it is a brown man who's paying the penalty for 'racism', of which there is not ONE SHRED of evidence. But then again,hey, they are in Australia afterall- it is to be expected, given that Australia is one of THE most racist nations on the planet. and if indian side put in half as much effort into their circket as they did about this whole incident, no one would ever beat them. Pretty hard to not get beaten when umpiring decisions go against you in 4:1 ratio. , i said quite clearly that somewhere else someone said they viewed it. And i said quite clearly that lip-reading is cr@p.. Link to comment
Rajan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I am of the humble opinion that "the tape" or any recording of the "alleged mentioning" does not exist. I am sure if it was available, by now, it would have been all over in all aussie press/websites/tv channels..... everywhere. Every minute of the session in questions must have already been analysed by Channel 9 or sky sports or other editors. they would have run "slow mo"of all camera angles of the moments when Harbhajan and Andrew symonds were in discussion, a hundred times. TV channels specialise in these kind of scoops. Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 thats the whole point , what made the ref decide that ... thats what all Indians are wondering , why did he take word of ponting and not Sachin what happened in India ? I dont know what happened in the first few games .. I was in Aus just like u so I cant say anything on that PS: This is all ugly and not required ....eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Link to comment
aussiefan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 re: india incident....if you have fox, watch an aussie goes bolly series ( started tonight on fox 8 channel ).....aussie supporter follows aussie team this year in india at games, odi's etc....it gets very heated when indian crowd specifically calls out symonds as monkey etc...supporter goes into bat against 40000 indian supporters in stadium...live footage showing all this. links here on actual incident and denial ( not a river in egypt ) by bcci http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/315481.html http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/316202.html photo Link to comment
Rajan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Aussie Fan, what is the link between that incident of fans chanting and Harbhajan incident here? do u mean that , since BCCI tried to sweep this under the carpet and so Harbhajan is lying, does it mean the whole indian team is lying? That is generalisation at its worst. Link to comment
aussiefan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Rajan, i do not mean that at all. i bring this to the fore, because obviously Symonds was/is/should be upset at being compared to the most basic of primates, which is a racist taunt in the western world, ie usa, uk, aus etc....solely on his skin colour... since it was raised and addressed when team was in india, indian team should be aware of connotations and it should not be used by fans/team etc.....if it was not calling anyone liars and not generalising.just wish that issues of cultural sensitivities were displayed by australians and indians. I have a lot of respect of indian team and supporters. this is cricket at its worst. Link to comment
Rajan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Rajan, i do not mean that at all. i bring this to the fore, because obviously Symonds was/is/should be upset at being compared to the most basic of primates, which is a racist taunt in the western world, ie usa, uk, aus etc....solely on his skin colour... since it was raised and addressed when team was in india, indian team should be aware of connotations and it should not be used by fans/team etc.....if it was not calling anyone liars and not generalising.just wish that issues of cultural sensitivities were displayed by australians and indians. I have a lot of respect of indian team and supporters. this is cricket at its worst. Agreed. But, Harbhajan is repeating like a "bhajan" that he did not utter "that"word! that confounds me. We have not heard the last word on this. Let us wait and watch how it unfolds finally. Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 re: india incident....if you have fox, watch an aussie goes bolly series ( started tonight on fox 8 channel ).....aussie supporter follows aussie team this year in india at games, odi's etc....it gets very heated when indian crowd specifically calls out symonds as monkey etc...supporter goes into bat against 40000 indian supporters in stadium...live footage showing all this. links here on actual incident and denial ( not a river in egypt ) by bcci http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/315481.html http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/316202.html photo I have seen those clippings ... but I was referring to why they didn’t accept it in the beginning. As someone suggested to you that they could lip read and see Bhajji calling symonds a monkey, same way some Indians say that at first it was not directed at him and they were "chanting" something else but since Symonds complained about it people started calling him a monkey in the subsequent games. Now the above is just a theory, I don’t have a proof neither do I want to say BCCI acted and were able to bring it under control nor do I agree that if Bhajji called symonds Monkey then he shouldn’t be banned ... hell he should be .. For me give him as many games as ICC can but have a proof , just don’t go out and say " I am convinced cuz Symo & ponting said so“ I have met Gilli and hayden in person, what if I say they called me a monkey , will you believe me ... ??? :hatsoff: Link to comment
varun Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 re: india incident....if you have fox, watch an aussie goes bolly series ( started tonight on fox 8 channel ).....aussie supporter follows aussie team this year in india at games, odi's etc....it gets very heated when indian crowd specifically calls out symonds as monkey etc...supporter goes into bat against 40000 indian supporters in stadium...live footage showing all this. links here on actual incident and denial ( not a river in egypt ) by bcci http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/315481.html http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/316202.html photo That picture that you attached is quite revealing actually in a couple of ways: 1. I see only 2 people there out of around 15-20 doing those monkey imitations. 2. Both of them (judging by their clothing) are from relatively rich families, and remind me of the standard Indian spoilt brats. I've encountered the above types in India, and they are no different than some of the hooligans you'd find at a soccer match in england, or at a cricket match in Australia (albeit much less aggressive though not less offensive) This sort of behaviour should be controlled, and as far as I can remember both these guys along with few others were arrested by the Police later on. Although I do concede that they should've been evicted right there and then from the stadium. That's more down to awareness of the police as to what is correct behaviour and what isn't. For example, the cops know that anyone who throws anything into the stadium is to be evicted, and they follow this policy religiously ever since such incidents happened (I've personally seen how strict they are in the Delhi stadium). Now that this monkey incident happened, you can be sure that the cops will be instructed to do the same. This isn't "insensitivity" on the part of BCCI/Cops that these hooligans weren't kicked out to begin with, but more to do with "ignorance". Link to comment
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