The last group game: Ind vs WI pre-match talk

[daryl1985]

Will bringing Raina into the team not put more pressure on Yuvraj Singh's bowling. Yusuf Pathan's bowling may not be great but i think it is probably more reliable than Raina's.

[Sachin=GOD]

Will bringing Raina into the team not put more pressure on Yuvraj Singh's bowling. Yusuf Pathan's bowling may not be great but i think it is probably more reliable than Raina's.

Will keeping Yusuf in the team not put more pressure on Yuvraj, Dhoni and Kohli's batting?

[zen]

The last group game: Ind vs WI pre-match talk So far it has been interesting journey for team Ind: - A workout against BD, Ire and Ned - A close call against Eng (over confidence. thinking that when you put a 320+ score, the opposition will give up sooner or later and you win automatically) - A loss against SA where SA had to play its best cricket (out of its skin) to beat a shabby Ind :P I felt that the energy level and passion in the last game was high. I guess that the guys realized that they had to make up for that dismal showing in the death overs when batting. Moving forward, what's needed is to get the consistency up and have more guys perform in a game rather than having a few good performances getting India through. Once we have more guys performing at their optimal level in a game, Ind would only get stronger Let's look at the venues for Ind for the KO games: A'bad, Mohali and Mumbai. From what we have seen so far the pitches are going to be flat at these venues. So from that context, it will be interesting to see how the surface at Chennai would be. I hope the curator dishes out a surface that would be closer to what's expected to be at A'bad. Things Ind need to sort out before the QF (I am taking it that we have qualified as our NRR is pretty decent and would take a very bad game to change that): 1. Get the 3rd seamer's position sorted out. B/w Sree and Nehra 2. If the top 4 are going to play 40 overs amongst them then may be it's not bad to consider 5th bowler but since Yuvi is bowling well, along w/ decent support from Pathan, player 4 bowlers is not a bad option either. Hoping that Sehwag will be able to roll his arms too later on in the tourney 3. Play w/ more common sense Against WI, I would also like to see how our bowling line up fares w/o Zak. I would rest him. Also get Ashwin in for Bhajji .... Tendulkar has given us good start in imp games so would also like to see how we fare if he gets a good one early on. Sehwag needs to be reminded what he said abt batting longer .... Basically, would want to use the game against WI to pull some of the others out of their comfort zones by giving them additional responsibilities and play w/ the knowledge that Ten and Zak are not playing to bail them out. Thus they have to come up w/ their A game. My recommendation for the 11: - Sehwag - GG - Kohli - Raina - Yusuf - Yuvi - Dhoni - Ashwin - Sree - Nehra - Munaf (or Chawla depending upon the conditions) If Ind manage to put up a good show w/ that line up. Rest assured that things will improve a lot when Ten and Zak get back for KO. If not then we know that the work for Ten and Zak has been cut out for this WC. Good Luck Ind :isalute:

[Chandan]

So far it has been interesting journey for team Ind: My recommendation for the 11: - Sehwag - GG - Kohli - Raina - Yusuf - Yuvi - Dhoni - Ashwin - Sree - Nehra - Munaf (or Chawla depending upon the conditions) If Ind manage to put up a good show w/ that line up. Rest assured that things will improve a lot when Ten and Zak get back for KO. If not then we know that the work for Ten and Zak has been cut out for this WC. Good Luck Ind :isalute:

No thanks. I'll not want to disrupt the great rhythm of our best bowler and batsman!

[zen]

No thanks. I'll not want to disrupt the great rhythm of our best bowler and batsman!

Quality players don't lose their rhythm after already playing 5 games and by not playing in one. Tendulkar could well go for a low score and/or get a low one at A'bad despite playing at Chennai. The problem for Ind is that others have to put their hands up and Team also sort out a few things (the big picture) But everyone has an opinion, you could be right, who knows!

[Ultimate_Game]

Don't agree with OP's team. Windies game is a must-win as it has serious implications for us... 1. We gotta beat at least one major Test playing team before the quarters. If we lose to Windies as well what confidence will Team India have before the knockouts? 2. If India beats Windies they should finish 2nd in the group and should most probably face kiwis in the quarters which is much better than facing Aussies or Lankans. 3. We need to have the team settled and the team combination nailed down for the quarters. We can't chop and change just before the knockout games. Our best XI has to play the game against Windies. With these considerations in mind I would have the following team play against the windies... Sehwag Tendulkar Gambhir Kohli Yuvraj Dhoni Pathan Harbhajan Ashwin Zaheer Sreesanth I am bringing in Sreesanth as he at least looked like taking wkts against B'desh with the new ball and was extremely unlucky in the first 3 overs to get so many edges fly to the boundary (3 at least) before losing the plot. He definitely needs a chance as he can be a great addition to the team if he gets his outswing going and is accurate. Plus we already know what Munaf or Nehra brings to the table and if Sree disappoints again we can bring in one of the two (preferably Munaf) for the quarters without unsettling the combination too much.

[zen]

Don't agree with OP's team. Windies game is a must-win as it has serious implications for us... 1. We gotta beat at least one major Test playing team before the quarters. If we lose to Windies as well what confidence will Team India have before the knockouts? 2. If India beats Windies they should finish 2nd in the group and should most probably face kiwis in the quarters which is much better than facing Aussies or Lankans. 3. We need to have the team settled and the team combination nailed down for the quarters. We can't chop and change just before the knockout games. Our best XI has to play the game against Windies.

I don't know what theory you have used there for coming out with the idea that Ind has to beat at least one major test playing nation (and then to imply that WI is one. If that's the case we did win against BD) KO should be seen as a different competition. You also need a different frame of mind to play the KOs. Every match you play could possibly be your last, the pressure level is totally different. For point #2 you basic assumption appears to be that Ind can only win if Zak and Ten around. If you think that others are not good enough to beat WI then you shouldn't keep much hope from India. Also when you begin to chose your oppononet for KO, you know you are not confident. Appears as if you are picking the team to give yourself the confidence (as a fan) rather than look at the big picture that could actually help Ind out in the KO games. You cannot win the world cup by banking only on Ten and Zak. If you can't do that against WI, forgot abt winning 3 back to back KO games :winky:

[Ultimate_Game]

I don't know what theory you have used there for coming out with the idea that Ind has to beat at least one major test playing nation (and then to imply that WI is one. If that's the case we did win against BD) KO should be seen as a different competition. You also need a different frame of mind to play the KOs. Every match you play could possibly be your last, the pressure level is totally different. For point #2 you basic assumption appears to be that Ind can only win if Zak and Ten around. If you think that others are not good enough to beat WI then you shouldn't keep much hope from India. Also when you begin to chose your oppononet for KO, you know you are not confident. Appears as if you are picking the team to give yourself the confidence (as a fan) rather than look at the big picture that could actually help Ind out in the KO games. You cannot win the world cup by banking only on Ten and Zak. If you can't do that against WI, forgot abt winning 3 back to back KO games :winky:

I thought my logic and reasoning was pretty simple. I would assume that Indian team would want to get into knockouts with a winning frame of mind and a settled team with a match against kiwis to boot instead of facing Aus or SL. What does it have anything do with "confidence as a fan"? TBH don't even really understand what it means.

[zen]

I thought my logic and reasoning was pretty simple. I would assume that Indian team would want to get into knockouts with a winning frame of mind and a settled team with a match against kiwis to boot instead of facing Aus or SL. What does it have anything do with "confidence as a fan"? TBH don't even really understand what it means.

I sincerely hope that team Ind doesn't think that way, i.e. 1. A loss against WI = loss of confidence 2. Resting Ten & Zak = unsettled line up 3. Playing against NZ = some kind of a shot in the arm or a walk in the park at A'bad The key to Ind doing well is how others player do well, one of the best ways is to give them the responsibility to try to fill in the shoes of Ten and Zak, knowing that they would be back when the real deal is on. If they deliver (and they should if they claim to be as good as they are and think that they deserve to win the WC), it should given them even more confidence going into the KO knowing that even if Ten and Zak have an off-day against stronger teams, they have it in them to pull the game for Ind. .... As I said, it's not how Tendulkar or Zak plays that is going to decide how Ind do (if that were the case we would have won against Eng and SA) but it's how others do as well If everyone in the team was shaping up well, I would go for your settled look option but not when we need this game to up the performance and confidence level of the rest, esp when how Ind fares depends upon how the 9 other players in the team do. The game against WI should also be an exercise to see that

[b555]

resting tendulkar and zak ? lol .. if we lose this match ,g od forbid we may not make it to quarters so this is like a must win for us .. so we will be going full on yusuf or raina i hope will be taken care of and nehra will be off and may be ashwin will be brought in .. i seriously hope that happens

[Ultimate_Game]

I sincerely hope that team Ind doesn't think that way, i.e. 1. A loss against WI = loss of confidence 2. Resting Ten & Zak = unsettled line up 3. Playing against NZ = some kind of a shot in the arm or a walk in the park at A'bad The key to Ind doing well is how others player do well, one of the best ways is to give them the responsibility to try to fill in the shoes of Ten and Zak, knowing that they would be back when the real deal is on. If they deliver (and they should if they claim to be as good as they are and think that they deserve to win the WC), it should given them even more confidence going into the KO knowing that even if Ten and Zak have an off-day against stronger teams, they have it in them to pull the game for Ind. .... As I said, it's not how Tendulkar or Zak plays that is going to decide how Ind do (if that were the case we would have won against Eng and SA) but it's how others do as well If everyone in the team was shaping up well, I would go for your settled look option but not when we need this game to up the performance and confidence level of the rest, esp when how Ind fares depends upon how the 9 other players in the team do. The game against WI is also an exercise to see that

A loss against windies is bound to dent their confidence before must-win games. I mean how could they believe they can beat the likes of Lankans and Aussies when they failed to beat Eng, SA and Windies? Also, wouldn't it make more sense to go for the win against windies if the win pits you against kiwis? Are you saying that playing Aus or SL is the same thing as playing NZ in a knockout game? As I mentioned in one of my earlier post, playing NZ doesn't mean we will definitely win BUT it gives us a much better chance than facing Aus or SL in the quarters. The time is now gone to try and test fringe players - we should have done so till Game 4. Now the team has to play their best combination in the last game before the knockouts. The good thing is that we play on Mar 20th and it would be clear who our likely opponents are if we finish 2nd in the group. If kiwis are that opponent, India has to go all out for the win against windies. And why would you need to "rest" anyone at this point. Wouldn't an 8 day break between SA and windies game be a good enough rest? Don't you think a 2 week break between games would be too much of a gap to suddenly show up and perform in a knockout game?

[zen]

A loss against windies is bound to dent their confidence before must-win games. I mean how could they believe they can beat the likes of Lankans and Aussies when they failed to beat Eng, SA and Windies? Also, wouldn't it make more sense to go for the win against windies if the win pits you against kiwis? Are you saying that playing Aus or SL is the same thing as playing NZ in a knockout game? As I mentioned in one of my earlier post, playing NZ doesn't mean we will definitely win BUT it gives us a much better chance than facing Aus or SL in the quarters. The time is now gone to try and test fringe players - we should have done so till Game 4. Now the team has to play their best combination in the last game before the knockouts. The good thing is that we play on Mar 20th and it would be clear who our likely opponents are if we finish 2nd in the group. If kiwis are that opponent, India has to go all out for the win against windies. And why would you need to "rest" anyone at this point. Wouldn't an 8 day break between SA and windies game be a good enough rest? Don't you think a 2 week break between games would be too much of a gap to suddenly show up and perform in a knockout game?

Let me put it in this way: Your point hinges on the assumption that by resting (by resting I mean keeping them out of the game and reducing the chances of possible break down and thus not necessarily to give them rest out of over exposure)Ten and Zak, Ind will not win against WI (that idea in itself doesn't inspire much confidence to the rest). That's my main point of contention, i.e. if Ind can't win w/o these two then it is difficult for them to win 3 KO games in a row as to win a tourney like the WC, you need contribution from the entire team To get the entire team to contribute and give them the confidence level to win a game for Ind when Ten and Zak fail is to make them play w/o them. By playing the team w/o these two you are giving the others the responsibility to fill Ten and Zak's shoes and also showing confidence in their ability to deliver If the fans think that Ind can't even go in w/o Ten and Zak against a team like WI then it shows the confidence (how good they really think Ind is) the fans have in the team. Also shown in the way, you want them to play against NZ (Why would one hope for an easier opponent if you know you have what it takes to win the WC?)

[Ultimate_Game]

Let me put it in this way: Your point hinges on the assumption that by resting (by resting I mean keeping them out of the game and reducing the chances of possible break down and thus not necessarily to give them rest out of over exposure)Ten and Zak, Ind will not win against WI (that idea in itself doesn't inspire much confidence to the rest). That's my main point of contention, i.e. if Ind can't win w/o these two then it is difficult for them to win 3 KO games in a row as to win a tourney like the WC, you need contribution from the entire team To get the entire team to contribute and give them the confidence level to win a game for Ind when Ten and Zak fail is to make them play w/o them. By playing the team w/o these two you are giving the others the responsibility to fill Ten and Zak's shoes and also showing confidence in their ability to deliver If the fans think that Ind can't even go in w/o Ten and Zak against a team like WI then it shows the confidence (how good they really think Ind is) the fans have in the team. Also shown in the way, you want them to play against NZ (Why would one hope for an easier opponent if you know you have what it takes to win the WC?)

I didn't say India WILL lose, I said there is more chances of us losing the game if we don't play our best XI. And as I explained it's not about "against a team like WI", it's all about how important the game is. I think the game is important as we haven't beaten any major Test team (I don't consider B'desh a "major" Test team) so far and our confidence will be severely dented if we don't beat the windies, especially right after the 9/29 performance against SA. Why even take a chance when we can play our best XI and win the game? Also, it's not about just this game. As I have repeatedly mentioned, the outcome of the game depends on who we face in the quarters and a win for us will get us a comparatively weaker opponent. Isn't it reason enough to put our best foot forward to win the game? I see a lot riding on this game and a good win against windies will be the best way to get into the knockouts - with wins and confidence under our belt.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

just one change - ashwin for nehra on a turning track.

[zen]

I didn't say India WILL lose, I said there is more chances of us losing the game if we don't play our best XI. And as I explained it's not about "against a team like WI", it's all about how important the game is. I think the game is important as we haven't beaten any major Test team (I don't consider B'desh a "major" Test team) so far and our confidence will be severely dented if we don't beat the windies, especially right after the 9/29 performance against SA. Why even take a chance when we can play our best XI and win the game? Also, it's not about just this game. As I have repeatedly mentioned, the outcome of the game depends on who we face in the quarters and a win for us will get us a comparatively weaker opponent. Isn't it reason enough to put our best foot forward to win the game? I see a lot riding on this game and a good win against windies will be the best way to get into the knockouts - with wins and confidence under our belt.

I don't agree with your point on WI being a major test playing side. That brings rest of the points that you make down. Also this is abt the greater good (and not what is good or bad. I don't think any route we take could be that bad): - Can Ind win w/o contributions from Ten and Zak? If no, then what chance do we have to win 3 KO in a row. If yes, then what's the big deal abt giving others a go when we have to iron out a few things that I mentioned earlier. - Is winning the QF against a perceived weaker opponent the means to the end or do we still have to win 2 games against stronger opponents. If we still have to beat stronger opponents then what's the best game other than the last grp game against WI to sort out our combination. You surely don't want to experiment in the KOs or bring someone else in for someone due to injury on the day w/o that person being tried out properly. - Did the win against BD give Ind the confidence to take on Eng in the next game? If yes, then what was the result? Looking at the bigger picture, i.e. to win the WC: 1. Ind will need significant contribution from other folks. Ten and Zak will make you competitive but to close games, we need contributions from others. 2. We will have to play good cricket against any team that is thrown at us. What we control is how good we play our cricket. And the focus should be on that, i.e. playing to the best of our potential. By playing good cricket, if we get to play against easier opponent then so be it. But we should keep in mind that all KO games are 50:50. if playing easier opponent automatically meant better chances than Ind would never have won the 1983 WC. We should not get into the mentality of looking to get the easy way out. Nobody is out here to do us the favors. I guess, I have summed iup my opinion :nice:

[ludhianvi]

There is a 7-8 day gap between the last game at Nagpur and the one at Chennai. Surely,that's enough time to rest for the players and I would not want to rest any of the players and more importantly none of the players would want to rest the game either. Only tactical changes should be made like Manny suggested a spinner for a pacer. And considering this is Ashwin's home ground, he may finally get a game as well.

[ghost]

Captain cool said he would play Ashwin in Chennai but you never know Chawla may still be needing some more confidence :nervous:

:hysterical: Hmmm....."Captain Cool"..... maybe what people mistake for coolness, is simply indifference to opinion of others and plain and simple arrogance and mulishness .

[Ultimate_Game]

I don't agree with your point on WI being a major test playing side. That brings rest of the points that you make down.

Well they blasted B'desh for 58, beat minnows more comfortably than we did and have dangerous players like Gayle, Pollard and Roach in the team. They definitely are as dangerous, if not more, than the likes of Eng and NZ. As for the importance of Windies game, you can put up a poll asking how important the Windies game is to the Indian team and let's see what the results are. I have a hunch most ppl would side with me when I say that India should play their best combination and go for the win against windies instead of resting a few key players.

There is a 7-8 day gap between the last game at Nagpur and the one at Chennai. Surely,that's enough time to rest for the players and I would not want to rest any of the players and more importantly none of the players would want to rest the game either. Only tactical changes should be made like Manny suggested a spinner for a pacer. And considering this is Ashwin's home ground, he may finally get a game as well.

:two_thumbs_up: Agreed

[zen]

Well they blasted B'desh for 58, beat minnows more comfortably than we did and have dangerous players like Gayle, Pollard and Roach in the team. They definitely are as dangerous, if not more, than the likes of Eng and NZ. As for the importance of Windies game, you can put up a poll asking how important the Windies game is to the Indian team and let's see what the results are. I have a hunch most ppl would side with me when I say that India should play their best combination and go for the win against windies instead of resting a few key players.

I think the game against WI is very important, which is why I want to see how the team does w/o the services of Ten and Zak to give others the confidence to take the responsibility and deliver if Ten and Zak fail, which is likely to happen in one of the KOs. And by resting (not playing), Ten and Zak, the game against WI doesn't become less important from what the team wants to achieve. It's importance is only less when compared to the KO games :winky: I would say many would agree with you on playing the best combination too because many think we can't win w/o Ten and Zak, therefore also admitting in a way to themselves that Ind as a team isn't that good w/o these two. Ind to have a chance has to play Ten and Zak, no matter what :P .... I don't write based on what popular opinion is, but what would help in the longer run or is greater good to get the job done (win the WC).

[theanalyst]

I know that Khan has had injury concerns in the past but you've got a huge gap before your next game. Play your best team in every match.