Once we were warriors - A must watch

[King]

I have been watching some cricket archives of India from the 70s and 80s and realised the Indian players were no frills cricket warriors with even without much need ammunition of fast bowling. That prompted me to search the stats and come up with the list of times India has been able to produce more 300 runs in the last inning. Get ready to be surprised, the over 300 score in the 4th inning of a test match did not frequently occur in the days of much vaunted batting line up of Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Laxman and Ganguly but more in the 70s and the 80s. The Saffie test series decider, the last test match against Pakistan in India , the Karachi test match last year, the test match against England last year at home comes to mind if I think about the current batting line up. Before anything check out the videos, they tell a great story of mentally sturdy men that were positive beyond the current crop of cricketers. The reason they knocked off more than 300 runs in the last inning was not because they were more talented but because they were tough men. The following couple of videos give insight to the thinking of such men. As for flaring tempers and sledging you will see some of the best ever in these videos. You could say cricketers from the 80s had pretty bad temper but they truly played to win though. They wanted to win and that's about it. It seems the tied test match was played in peak summer with temperatures in the 40s and high humidity. We also know the now legend of a knock double hundred by Deano. :

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Check out the score cards of over 300 runs score by India in the 4th inning since 1970s : 1970s 1976 vs West Indies (In West Indies) - 406 runs scored by India in the last inning and Won by 6 wickets http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1975-76/IND_IN_WI/IND_WI_T3_07-12APR1976.html Gavaskar, Vishwanath and Amarnath scored 102, 85 and 112 respectively in the chase. Mohinder Amarnath and Madan Lal opened the bowling for India. 3 spinners played for India 1977 vs Australia (In Australia) - 324 runs scored by India in the 4th inning and lost by 16 runs http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1977-78/IND_IN_AUS/IND_AUS_T1_02-06DEC1977.html Gavaskar scored 113, Mohinder Amarnath 47, Vishwanath 35 and Kirmani 55. Mohinder Amarnath and Madan Lal opened the bowling for India. 3 spinners played for India 1978 vs Australia (In Australia) - 445 runs scored Lost by 47 runs http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1977-78/IND_IN_AUS/IND_AUS_T5_28JAN-03FEB1978.html Amarnath 86, Vishwanath 73, Vengsarkar78 and Kirmani 51 Ghavri and Amarnath were the only fast bowlers. 1979 vs England (In England) - 429 runs scored and game ended in draw http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1979/IND_IN_ENG/IND_ENG_T4_30AUG-04SEP1979.html Gavaskar 221, Chauhan 80 and Vengsarkar 52. Ghavri and Kapil Dev were the only fast bowlers 1979 vs Pakistan (In India) - 364 runs scored and game ended in draw http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1979-80/PAK_IN_IND/PAK_IND_T2_04-09DEC1979.html Vengsarkar 146, Yashpal Sharma 60 and Vishwanath 34. Kapil, Ghavri and Binny were the fast bowlers. 1980s 1986 vs Australia (In India) - 347 runs scored and the game ended in a tie http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1980S/1986-87/AUS_IN_IND/AUS_IND_T1_18-22SEP1986.html Gavaskar 90, Amarnath 51, Azhar 42 and Shastri 48. Kapil Dev and Chetan Sharma were the two opening bowlers. 1989 vs Pakistan in Pakistan - 303 runs scored and game ended in a draw http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1980S/1989-90/IND_IN_PAK/IND_PAK_T1_15-20NOV1989.html Sidhu 81 and Manjraker 113. 1990s 1990 vs England in England - 343 runs scored and game ended in a draw http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1990/IND_IN_ENG/IND_ENG_T2_09-14AUG1990.html Manjraker 50, Tendulkar 119 and Prabhakar 67. 1992 vs Australia in Australia - 333 runs scored and lost by 38 runs http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1991-92/IND_IN_AUS/IND_AUS_T4_25-29JAN1992.html Azhar 106, Prabhakar 64 and Manjraker 45. 2000s 2002 vs England in England - 397 runs scored and lost by 170 runs http://nz.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2002/IND_IN_ENG/SCORECARDS/IND_ENG_T1_25-29JUL2002.html Agarkar 109, Rahul Dravid 63 and Laxman 74.

[Lurker]

What a cracker of a game that was! As good a test match as you would ever see. And specially if you are a Kapil Dev fan you can not help but sit back and enjoy his greatness. Kapil single-handedly pulled India back from the brink and Maninder is quite correct when he says, "Kapil's innings made this match". Coming to your point Ravi yes Indian batsmen of 80's were no less, if not better than the current crop. It is almost impossible to imagine what a Sunny could have done with a better bat or how ferocious would Kapil's hit with a heavier equipment. But what they lacked in modern equipments they more than made it with their mental aggression. Watch how Ravi Shastri eggs on Chennai crowd. Tall and commanding in his own way today's Indian batsmen look puny around him. I mean honestly which modern Indian batsman can you envisage doing that - SRT, Dravid, VVS? Nah. Again this is not a shot at today's batsmen just a thought that players of 70-80s were as good, if not better than what we have today. xxx

[King]

Absolutely Lurker. Moreover they had no helmets in the early part of the 70s and that made their job that much tougher. As for bowling attack it was as good as it could get in the 70s and the 80s. I think the current crop of Indian batters are way too over hyped. Yes these folks have thousands of runs to show but not enough mental strength. I can only name one or two at the most that go on fighting in the face of adversity. That Ravi Shastri clip where he says he walked from the other end to avoid talking to Kapil Dev is a good one. He thought about winning the game not drawing. Similarly the attitude of Gavaskar, Srikanth, Kapil Dev and Amarnath rubbed off on the lesser ones like Yadav or More. Now you have the likes of Tendulkars, Dravids shutting the shop straight away and hoping their best to draw a test match. Invariably every time they did that, India ended up losing. When the senior most aren't positive enough about the chances what do you expect the new entrants to do? After having browsed through some old videos I'm convinced the current crop of players are all razzmatazz but lack that mental strength that was evident in the 70s and the 80s players. Even a technically right slowish opener like Sunil Gavaskar used to go for it when it required India to knock off over 300 runs in the 4th inning of a test match. I remember seeing plenty of videos where Gavaskar in the ODIs went after the bowling towards the end of his career. The foremost in the minds of India’s current experienced players is to put some score that will force the selectors not to drop them. Right now most of the batters barring one or two in India are on survival mode. Winning is usually side lined when such survival mode button is pressed.

[Lurker]

That Ravi Shastri clip where he says he walked from the other end to avoid talking to Kapil Dev is a good one. He thought about winning the game not drawing. Similarly the attitude of Gavaskar, Srikanth, Kapil Dev and Amarnath rubbed off on the lesser ones like Yadav or More. Now you have the likes of Tendulkars, Dravids shutting the shop straight away and hoping their best to draw a test match. Invariably every time they did that, India ended up losing. When the senior most aren't positive enough about the chances what do you expect the new entrants to do? After having browsed through some old videos I'm convinced the current crop of players are all razzmatazz but lack that mental strength that was evident in the 70s and the 80s players. Even a technically right slowish opener like Sunil Gavaskar used to go for it when it required India to knock off over 300 runs in the 4th inning of a test match.

Yeah I also loved that part where Ravi Shashtri consciously avoids Kapil Dev as the latter makes his way back to the pavillion. Basically tells you the mental state of this man and how seriously he wanted to win. And he did fight right to the wires Ravi Shashtri did. Even though wickets kept falling he kept hitting back. Now seriously when was the last time we saw it from this over-hyped current lot?

I remember seeing plenty of videos where Gavaskar in the ODIs went after the bowling towards the end of his career. The foremost in the minds of India’s current experienced players is to put some score that will force the selectors not to drop them. Right now most of the batters barring one or two in India are on survival mode. Winning is usually side lined when such survival mode button is pressed.

Here is a good example Ravi. How often have you heard this argument about Mohammed Kaif, "Oh he comes at number 6,7 and is desired to start hitting straight away, how can he do that?". This argument is given by experts as well as Kaif himself to suggest there are reasons why he cant score at a brisk rate. No wonder his career SR is in low 70's. What he(Kaif) and most experts conviently forget is that Kapil Dev would come down at exact same spot, play with longish grounds, with less fielding restrictions and still score in mid to late 90's(in terms of SR). Of course Kaif has a slightly better average but how many matches has he won by his batting for us? I do not want to sound like an old hag talking about "oh our time was great" but anyway you look at it the modern crop does not look any better than 80's greats, in fact probably they are worse. Also it is interesting to remember that 80's team was superb when it came to fielding as well, there were only handful of players you had to "hide" in the field. xxx

[King]

Chetan Sharma warning T.Zoherer he will stick his bat where sun doesn't shine and Tim bending asking Sharma to do that was hilarious :hysterical: I have to agree with you the 80s team was awesome in ODIs too. I've seen so many games won by the middle order. Even Sunny in the middle order or opening was explosive towards the end of his career. I think everyone knew what their roles were. Whatever they lacked in talent they had it in mental strength and ability to back themselves every other time. The current Indian team is way too timid for my liking and 9 out of the 11 don't even rate themselves anymore I think.

[The Outsider]

Some very well written words, Lurker and Ravi. One of my favourite test matches. Oh, what I would give for a longer highlights/ball to ball recording of that Kapil knock. I was just venturing into teenage at that time and those were the sort of events which can send you into an inspirational frenzy at that age. I would try to create fictional match situations in my mind playing an innings like Kapil and tried to repeat that innings in my cricket matches, without much success I might add.

[The Outsider]

An unsung hero of the test besides the ones like Jones, Gavaskar, Kapil, and Matthews who received their fair share of plaudits was Shastri. Made 60 odd in the first innings in addition to the absolutely vital 48* in the last and also bowled very economically on the 4th day along with Maninder.

[Dhondy]

Not surprising that two names recur like a metronome in that list- Gavaskar and Jimmy Amarnath. Those are once in a generation cricketers. I'd rate Sunny ahead of Sachin, and Jimmy ahead of just about anybody in the Indian team today in terms of sheer mental cussedness.

[The Outsider]

On the main subject of the thread, I agree we had characters like Gavaskar and Amarnath who were incredibly tough cookies but there could be one more point for those 300+ scores in the last innings : Batting, in general, has become more aggressive. To score in the 4th innings requires the kind of doggedness and technique where strokeplay needs to be shunned for caution at times. My guess is that this trend would be there for all teams and not just India.

[Gambit]

Good videos Ravi. Thanks for sharing. Put them on youtube.

[King]

That sentence by Kapil Dev defines to me the kind of cricketers they were He says "The way I played my cricket no way I put the shutter down and said ok relax we want to draw the game, NO". As for Shastri he was egging on the crowd to back them and he used it against the Aussies so effectively. Many times you could see the Aussies were pretty much losing it. After scoring 500+ in the first inning and setting a target of 350 they had to go through this. Compare the current cricketers with the likes of Kapil Dev, Shastri, Gavaskar, Amarnath and the rest. The current one always talk about "Pressure". I don't reckon people expect any more miracles than what they used to in the 70s or 80s but the players these days speak about pressure as if they are spanked in the bottom 100 times after every inning. If there is huge expectations and crowd presence the players should use it to their advantage not the other way around. Don't you feel like a super human when there are over 50,000 people behind you? I think it should inspire the cricketers to do better not the other way around.

[King]

Good videos Ravi. Thanks for sharing. Put them on youtube.

I'll upload it soon Gambo.

[King]

Not surprising that two names recur like a metronome in that list- Gavaskar and Jimmy Amarnath. Those are once in a generation cricketers. I'd rate Sunny ahead of Sachin, and Jimmy ahead of just about anybody in the Indian team today in terms of sheer mental cussedness.

I rate Sunil Gavaskar as the best Indian batter too. He had to face the new ball all the time and when there really was a need to chip in as in the above innings I've mentioned, he really made the bowlers pay. People complain he was slow at times but coming up against new ball always almost meant he had to play some of the best bowlers of his times. The better bowlers usually are given the new ball. Secondly he had to bat on pitches without having a clue how it was going to behave when India had to bat first. Invariably during his times India lacked the fast bowling abilities so even on a green tops India were forced to bat first. If India lost the toss on such pitches invariably they were put to bat considering the rest of the cricket nations had decent enough fast bowlers in their ranks. On a 4th or 5th day pitch when India really needed to go for the win this was one guy they always looked up to. A decent start would mean a decent go at the target. It is not surprising his name figures prominently in the best of the Indian chases ever. After his retirement we haven't seen one Indian opening bat chip in with a hundred chasing over 300 runs. That tells a story doesn't it? Amarnath, Rahul Dravid, Laxman, Kapil Dev, GR Vishwanath and even Ravi Shastri fall into this gutsy category. If you will make the most gutsy Indian XI of all times the above names will be the first ones that will be jotted down and will make the top 7 to bat in the second inning.

[Lurker]

Amarnath, Rahul Dravid, Laxman, Kapil Dev, GR Vishwanath and even Ravi Shastri fall into this gutsy category. If you will make the most gutsy Indian XI of all times the above names will be the first ones that will be jotted down and will make the top 7 to bat in the second inning.

Ravi. If you talk of a selection of gutsy innings, the kind where the bowlers have a go right at you, often interested in hurting you than knocking down the wickets then I doubt any of the current crops of players shall make the list at all. I mean can we think of any single innings where a Rahul Dravid or a VVS or even a SRT was felled by a bouncer and then came back with a super solid innings? Forget in the same innings, I will even take the same series. But you would be hard pressed to find them. On the other hand you can pick half a dozen of Mohinder Amarnath innings just like that, where he was felled on the wicket, came back and then scored vital runs. But it was not only Mohinder Amarnath. Take the example of Yashpal Sharma. The diminutive middle order batsman of the 80's. He had a torrid time against Bob Willis in England and the latter had bounced him, hit him on the bed and then cussed at him(a 13 letter word including the word mother). Yashpal never forget that and in 1983 WC semis against England he ensured India won with a solid innings. During the chase he batted with Amarnath and Amarnath kept calming him and Yashpal famously told Jimmy, "This chap had abused me..I will show him who is the boss" and then hit him for a six. Amarnath gave up after that! And who did Yashpal Sharma replace in Indian side? Possibly Sandeep Patil. The same heartthrob strokeplayer that was once felled by a ferocious bouncer by Lenny Pascoe in 1982 after he had scored 65. Patil's response was to come back in the next test and score 174 against an attack that included Dennis Lillee and Pascoe! Of course Patil is also the player who scoed 6 fours against Bob Willis in an over. Gotta love those hardasses! xxxx

[King]

I mean can we think of any single innings where a Rahul Dravid or a VVS or even a SRT was felled by a bouncer and then came back with a super solid innings? Forget in the same innings, I will even take the same series. But you would be hard pressed to find them. On the other hand you can pick half a dozen of Mohinder Amarnath innings just like that, where he was felled on the wicket, came back and then scored vital runs.

I can't quite remember LAxman getting hit simply because he doesn't get hit :tounge_smile: Rahul Dravid has been hit few times and has gone on to score a hundred. He was smashed in the jaw against West Indies in the 2000-01 series by a Dillon bouncer.

He is the anchorman VIJAY LOKAPALLY THE waves lash the shore violently. It is high tide. But the horizon is peaceful as it presents a pretty picture with the sun seeking leave. We sit on the rocks, reflecting on his exceptional Test hundred at Bourda. Rahul Dravid is soaking in the atmosphere, at ease with himself. The breeze carries a pleasant chill and the weather is perfect to relax. He can afford this rare luxury.

V. V. KRISHNAN

In this team of stroke players, Dravid is the anchorman. One who believes in hanging in. It is not that he curbs himself. His game is to grind the attack and he does not pretend either. He does not try some shots because he cannot play them confidently. "There's no point in trying to play shots like Laxman or Sachin or Sourav. There a good chance that I'll get out." The swelling on his left jaw is a reminder of that dreadful moment at Bourda when Mervyn Dillon hurt his pride. The ball crashed into the grill of the helmet and Dravid sank. This incident threatened the Indian camp as much as the man who suffered the blow. And then he rose. His self-pride driving him to pick up his bat and gloves and carry on. The team prayed to a man because Dravid's presence in the middle alone can prevent disaster at that moment. He knew it too. He felt groggy, jaded and then was worried for his jaw. He held the key to this Test, and the series. But Dravid did not relent and simply put a new helmet on, took guard and produced an innings which spoke for the man's resilience and honour. He was very honest when discussing that incident. "It was a misjudgements (ducking into the bouncer). We all make errors. It was the first time in my career that I was hit on the helmet. I think I'm entitled to make a few mistakes. This was one. The ball wasn't short enough to duck." Dravid has just finished reading Wings Of Fire, the superb autobiography of A. P. J. Abdul Kalam. He gushes "its a great book. I enjoyed reading it immensely and it's a big source of motivation for anyone who reads it. We were Soldiers Once, And Young is the title of the new book that he is reading. "It's about the Vietnam war," Dravid informs. His interests are diverse and vision singular. Nothing can shake his resolve and that is his forte. His batting has evolved on this strong self-belief that he was born to serve Indian cricket for long, and with distinction. For Dravid it meant a lot to be counted. "As a senior player, I've certain responsibilities to carry." So, this knock at Bourda was one emphatic demonstration of the man's progress as a batsman when faced with a situation. I would say it was a strong statement confirming his commitment to the team. Dravid has his priorities right. He does not aim to bat like others. And rightly so. People want to watch Tendulkar or Lara because they are entertaining and dominating. But Dravid admitted "I cant bat like them. I know I won't be successful if I tried to ape them. Let us accept that it's better to bat according to your limitations." He has made a promise to himself that he shall not imitate anyone. "It's important that you bat in a manner which is comfortable to you. Don't bat like others simply because someone says or writes or comments that you should. You have to look at yourself first." Dravid did not rate the 144 not out at Bourda as his best. "The 190 (at Hamilton against New Zealand) was better because I felt in control all the way. I was in good touch throughout the innings and hardly made any mistakes. In terms of results, the 180 at Eden Gardens was special. The 95 at Lord's (on debut) was memorable because it was a great start to my career and a huge boost." But what about the Bourda act? "This one was special too because I've always valued scoring in the West Indies. I've always looked at the positive aspects of all my innings. There is a lesson always in failures." His batting has evolved quite steadily in the last one year. He agreed that he had learnt a lot from the time he played that innings at Kolkata. It taught him to understand his game a lot better. "I think I've a tighter all-round game now and better defence. It has certainly made me tougher mentally." Dravid's game has never been about robust shots. He does not hit the ball hard but likes to use the pace and bounce to get his shots going. He enjoys his batting. "Actually my motivation comes from my batting, from scoring runs. Nothing inspires me more than playing for my country. It's a great honour. We carry the hopes of millions of people and need to set examples for youngsters to emulate. That's where my motivation comes from." Is technique an obsession for him? Dravid was quick "it's not. For me good technique comes from devotion and it is worth only if it helps you get runs. When I'm in the middle my job is not to concentrate just on my technique but on ways to get runs." Another pleasant aspect of having someone like Dravid is his ability to infuse confidence among his partners. "I like to work in tandem because it gives me lot of satisfaction to see that my partner also gets runs. It doesn't matter who scores more. With Laxman I've enjoyed some partnerships. Sachin and Sourav have been great. Sachin is such a fantastic player. He's such a good runner between the wickets. Laxman and Sourav sort of complement my style. What is common among us is the desire to score runs and ensure that the team gets a big total." Dravid made a valid point when he spoke of concentration after reaching a century. "Generally a lot of batsmen get out after getting a century. But I've consciously tried to avoid such mistakes. I've tried to build on my hundreds. It's best to get going after a hundred because you have been there enough to judge the situation. Why throw away your wicket just because you have reached a hundred. Dravid, 29, has at times been accused of not being able to dominate; of curbing his strokes, much in contrast to his potential. It cannot be deliberate. It happens because Dravid is that kind of player. Someone from the old school. But he conceded "it's one area I need to improve upon." In Tests, I think this opinion is unwarranted because Dravid needs to ensure that he occupies the crease for a long time and find the right balance of grafters and stroke makers. What then was style worth in his approach to batting? "Team doesn't want style. Team wants runs. And that is what I remember when I bat. Forget the style and look at the substance, look at what you have contributed." Just the philosophy that Steve Waugh has followed. No wonder Dravid admires Steve. "He may not be the prettiest but is willing to fight it out. That's what counts." It holds true for Dravid too!

Again in the 2002 series Rahul Dravid was smacked all over the body on that green top in Headingly but went on to make a fantastic 100. Rahul Dravid was also hit in the series against Australia that split his ear thanks but no thanks to a bouncer from Lee. Still he went on to dominate the bowlers in the rest of the series. I remember Sehwag being hit in Melbourne prior his terrific knock of 195. Although he was hit in the head he shrugged it away and went on to make a fantastic 100. Sehwag was also hit by Shoaib once in Pakistan but went on to smash him all over the park. I know Tendulkar was hit in the very first game he played but smashed the next ball for a four. Tendulkar was hit in the head by Shoaib in the Karachi test match that India lost and I think Tendulkar made about 50 or something before he got out. I think in the current test team Rahul Dravid and Sehwag seemed unperturbed despite getting hit by the bowlers.