Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time.

[The_Black_Prince]

Yep...........I never saw Sunny in pressure situations poop bigtime like Sachin. Nor did anyone ever had grounds to ask him "why don't you retire ?" Yet, Sachin finds himself in both situations. Like Mcgrath, Warne and Langer the other day, Sachin should have been leaving the game with everyone asking the question "Why are you leaving now ?" Instead, many are asking Sachin " Why are you staying and stinking up the joint ?" That is a sure sign that you have over-stayed your welcome. I hope Sachin has the good sense to step down before his test average takes a big hit..............I would hate to see it drop below 50. But, in the pantheon of great Indian batsmen, I have Gavaskar.........and even Rahul before him.

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. BTW, I am not surprised Rahul declared on him when he was dawdling his way to 190 in Pakistan ! If it was Lara, it woulda been all guns go after he passed 100........4's and 6s' galore !! Instead, Sachin was scratchin around like an old fowl! What did he think.........the test match was being played over 20 days ?? Maaan.........I woulda do the same thing that Rahul did

[beetle]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. agree with you there.... even if he makes 10 more centuries.....

[yoda]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. test match 4th innings averages: Ponting: 59.57 Sunny: 58.25 Dravid: 49.37 Lara: 35.12 SRT: 34.28 pretty much tells the story.

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. During the last 5 years, Sachin's test average has dropped approx. 3.5 points. During the same period, Lara's test average has risen approx. 2.5 points. That's a span of 6 test match average points.........a big gap. Ponting's average over the last 3 years has also gone up 3 points. That's should be a very worrying sign for Sachin and India. There is no point continuing if there is no gas in the tank. That would just be blocking someone like Kartik who merits a place in the side. And when some people say they will consider Sachin just a mortal, my question is what kind of mortal - A No. 3 or 4 Mortal......or a No. 7 or 8 Mortal ??? In other words, do we expect from him to produce like a No. 4 batsman or a No. 7/8 batsman ?? If No.4, then I am sure that there are young players who can at least give you 30-35 plus average at No 4. In summary, a decision has to be made on Sachin very soon. It could be as soon as post World Cup.

[Lurker]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all tim

But, in the pantheon of great Indian batsmen, I have Gavaskar.........and even Rahul before him.

Thats your personal opinion and I appreciate that but Sachin was better than both these batsmen. In fact he was better than any other batsman of his time. Period. I know you would throw his last few years performance and you have a fair point there. In an ideal world had Sachin retired around 2003 WC the world would have been in awe of him. He had just been declared the MOS in WC and his Test average was about 58 and he was undisputed best batsman in the world. But there is a catch - he was only 30 at this time and which great batsman retires before 34-35??? There is only one other batsman that can be compared with Sachin and that is the fabulous Lara. But you have to bear two things in mind - 1) Sachin is clearly the better bat in One dayers, even today I dare say. 2) Lara's career has seen more flip flops than Sachin's. His late burst has coincided with Sachin's downfall. At the time when they were both in their prime(mid 90's to early 2000's - a full 10 years by the way) Lara's average came down from a very healthy 58 to under 50 while for Sachin it went from 51 to 58 - you see the trend? By most accounts Sachin was considered the best bat of this era. Coming to Dravid and SG comparison. They are both great batsmen and have served India but they never were considered the best batsmen in the world by their peers(or fans). One of the best yes. But Gavaskar always had to contend with Richards, Dravid had to contend with many more. Sachin was quite unique in that many bowlers would consider him the best bat they bowled to - plus SG, Dravid could never scare a bowler like SRT does(or rather did). Today of course its a different story. xxx

[Anakin]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time.

BTW, I am not surprised Rahul declared on him when he was dawdling his way to 190 in Pakistan ! If it was Lara, it woulda been all guns go after he passed 100........4's and 6s' galore !! Instead, Sachin was scratchin around like an old fowl! What did he think.........the test match was being played over 20 days ?? Maaan.........I woulda do the same thing that Rahul did

Did you even watch it

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. No.........but the reports of his batting were very painful to even read. I am not surprised that Rahul got fed-up.

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Lurker........all I have to tell you is that in pressure.....crunch situations..............Sachin is far down the list. He is eclipsed by Gavaskar, Dravid, Lara and Ponting in situations when their batting is most needed by their teams. Because of this, the quality of his runs is lower than those of the others. That is why he can never supplant the other 2 Indian batsmen as the greatest Indian bats.

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. BTW Lurk..........when I talk cricket you can assume I mean the real form of cricket - Test Cricket. I am not interested in ODI stats.

[Lurker]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time.

Lurker........all I have to tell you is that in pressure.....crunch situations..............Sachin is far down the list. He is eclipsed by Gavaskar, Dravid, Lara and Ponting in situations when their batting is most needed by their teams. Because of this, the quality of his runs is lower than those of the others. That is why he can never supplant the other 2 Indian batsmen as the greatest Indian bats.

Wrong analogy. Sorry. See batting in pressure situation is one criteria, not the criteria. I am not going to defend Sachin's performance under pressure because clearly he has not done as good as say Dravid or Lara but Sachin's greatness can also be explained that he would be the reason why India did not fall into pressure in the first place! To show you how faulty that analogy can be(batting under pressure) let me tell you that the greatest batsmen in 80's and 90's to bat under pressure were Alan Border, Javed Miandad and Steve Waugh, none of them were considered the best batsmen of their times. I hope you get my point now. xxx

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Not at all. But each was the best batsman of their country, no ??? Batting Under Pressure is the tie-breaker that cuts it for me. Sachin does not have the mental strength, sorry !

[Lurker]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time.

Batting Under Pressure is the tie-breaker that cuts it for me. Sachin does not have the mental strength, sorry !

Fair enough. I have not defended Sachin on that. He certainly has not been the best in that regard. My assertion is more about overall performance. Sachin beats SG and RD clearly in most areas though I have highest regards for both these gents. xxx

[Anakin]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time.

No.........but the reports of his batting were very painful to even read. I am not surprised that Rahul got fed-up.

Figures. IIRC he scored 47 off last 50 balls or something similar, it was an anchoring role when sehwag and another player batted freely, RR was quite high. Anyways, keep uttering baseless things, only proves the point.

[Anakin]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Lara hasn't done so supremely in "batting under pressure" either, although it's obvious SRT has done badly given his genius as a batsman. BTW that also shows how effective they can set up the match with better innings up front. Not a bad quality either.

[Predator_05]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Depends how you define "pressure". I'd say Tendulkar was under immense pressure throughout the '90's; when he WAS the Indian team - essentially a one-man army who the opposition would always target. Get Tendulkar, and the rest will cave in. Despite this; he still managed to score some big hundreds against the very best bowlers. Even as Indian captain - the responsibility didn't affect his batting, as he continued to lead by example and averaged well over 50. That's an incredible feat - whichever way you may choose to interpret it. Yeah, his 4th innings record is crap but then again India seldom found themselves chasing eminently gettable targets in the 4th innings - especially in overseas tests. I am with Lurker when he says that batting in the 4th innings is just ONE criteria, not THE criteria. Ultimately Tendulkar's stats stack up against anyone who has played the game - which is all that matters. In terms of sheer talent and ability - he is far superior to any other batsman the world, let alone India - has produced in the modern era. Gavaskar wasn't as technically adept as Tendulkar and played a more attritional game, Dravid isn't even worth comparing to Tendulkar - as he doesn't have half the talent. Only Lara is comparable to Tendulkar in terms of ability and pure batting skill...they both happen to be erratic geniuses; capable of being magnificent at times, but equally disappointing as well. So Tendulkar has been rubbish in the last two seasons; i'd agree there. In fact, i reckon he should be dropped from the Test team altogether. However i don't believe that his performances in these penultimate years of his will ever tarnish his legacy. He will still be remembered as one of the most gifted batsmen to have ever played the game; the kind who could bring crowds to stadiums in the hordes. Even Viv Richards averaged just 37 (compared to his overall average of 51) in his final 3 years - doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a legendary batsman. The same applies to Tendulkar.

[Anakin]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Good post there predator, although don't agree with dropping him from the test team right now.

[The_Black_Prince]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. No doubt, Predator..........no doubt ! But in terms of the value of his runs to India, he will sit behind Gavaskar and Dravid.

[Anakin]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Yeah his are selfish runs

[Gambit]

Re: Gavaskar will remain the No. 1 Indian batsman of all time. Interestingly, S Waugh averaged 25.5 and Border averaged 34.4 in the 4th innings.