Do you think we declared early

[novpj]

Its quite possible that we will have to bat again and we could have avoided this situation by scoring more in the 1st innigs. I thought our declaration was premature then because if the pitch still seemed good making us believe that we need more time to get the Pakis out then we should have made more runs when it had not deteriorated as much. Its not like we had taken a long time to score our runs and another 100 runs in the first innings with a heavy roller on thirs morning would have worked well.

[sm332]

Its quite possible that we will have to bat again and we could have avoided this situation by scoring more in the 1st innigs. I thought our declaration was premature then because if the pitch still seemed good making us believe that we need more time to get the Pakis out then we should have made more runs when it had not deteriorated as much. Its not like we had taken a long time to score our runs and another 100 runs in the first innings with a heavy roller on thirs morning would have worked well.

hindsight is always 20-20 ... when we had them at 150-5 it certainly didnt seem that we declared early. There is still a lot of time to put this game away

[The Outsider]

We declared at the right time. Got 15 overs in at Pakistan, removed one of their openers and had them 150/5. The older, softer ball did not grip on the surface and Misbah and Akmal batted very sensibly. Except for that dropped catch by Munaf, don't think India did much wrong. The surface hasn't crumbled as expected and batting is still not too difficult once the ball loses it's hardness.

[Rohip]

We declared at the right time but we didnt go on the attack at the right time. After 102 overs we were sitting pretty at 430/4 with a RR of 4.2. That was the time to take the game to them and to batter them out of the match. Instead over the next 47 overs we made 152 runs at a pathetic 3.2 runs an over. If we'd accelerated even to something like 5.2 runs an over then we'd have scored 244 runs in the same time. Even if we had stayed at 4.2 runs an over we'd have scored 197 runs. It's typical India to slow down the run rate when we are in a commanding position and take the pressure off the other team. It was only after the 149th over that we scored 34 in 23 balls and declared!! We only accelerated for 4 overs, that is where we went wrong not the timing of the declaration!

[Sachinism]

i dont think india had set a plan on when to declare dhoni should have been looking to score quick instead of defending everything maybe the batsmen were told they would bat more overs, so they took it easy

[Dhondy]

We declared at the right time but we didnt go on the attack at the right time. After 102 overs we were sitting pretty at 430/4 with a RR of 4.2. That was the time to take the game to them and to batter them out of the match. Instead over the next 47 overs we made 152 runs at a pathetic 3.2 runs an over. If we'd accelerated even to something like 5.2 runs an over then we'd have scored 244 runs in the same time. Even if we had stayed at 4.2 runs an over we'd have scored 197 runs. It's typical India to slow down the run rate when we are in a commanding position and take the pressure off the other team. It was only after the 149th over that we scored 34 in 23 balls and declared!! We only accelerated for 4 overs, that is where we went wrong not the timing of the declaration!

Excellent point, and exactly my thoughts.

[Predator_05]

We declared at the right time but we didnt go on the attack at the right time. After 102 overs we were sitting pretty at 430/4 with a RR of 4.2. That was the time to take the game to them and to batter them out of the match. Instead over the next 47 overs we made 152 runs at a pathetic 3.2 runs an over. If we'd accelerated even to something like 5.2 runs an over then we'd have scored 244 runs in the same time. Even if we had stayed at 4.2 runs an over we'd have scored 197 runs. It's typical India to slow down the run rate when we are in a commanding position and take the pressure off the other team.

You can't just score at 4.2 throughout a test innings, you have bat out time as well. Otherwise the opposition are left with more time to recover and can stage a fight-back. ,,,and no, India didn't declare early.

[Dooks]

Its quite possible that we will have to bat again and we could have avoided this situation by scoring more in the 1st innigs. I thought our declaration was premature then because if the pitch still seemed good making us believe that we need more time to get the Pakis out then we should have made more runs when it had not deteriorated as much. Its not like we had taken a long time to score our runs and another 100 runs in the first innings with a heavy roller on thirs morning would have worked well.

Yup. I think we declared too early. We should have batted for 5 days and bat them out of the game. :D

[Donny]

No. Too late. About 575 would've been ideal.

[Ram]

No. Too late. About 575 would've been ideal.

How is 616 "too late" ? More importantly, how is 575 "ideal" ? And to add on, Ind were 574/5 in 146 overs, and 616/5 in 152 overs. Thats a difference of 6 overs. How could that have become "late" ?

[Holysmoke]

How is 616 "too late" ? More importantly, how is 575 "ideal" ? And to add on, Ind were 574/5 in 146 overs, and 616/5 in 152 overs. Thats a difference of 8 overs. How could that have become "late" ?

6 overs

[Ram]

6 overs

Thanks for pointing out the error.

[Captain of Bhangra]

I think we declared at the correct time with a decent enough score... Then, 150-5 was beyond our wildest dreams, but what happened after was a disgrace, and in that light, one can be fooled into thinking the declaration was not timed correctly...

[Bumper]

We declared at the right time but we didnt go on the attack at the right time. After 102 overs we were sitting pretty at 430/4 with a RR of 4.2. That was the time to take the game to them and to batter them out of the match. Instead over the next 47 overs we made 152 runs at a pathetic 3.2 runs an over. If we'd accelerated even to something like 5.2 runs an over then we'd have scored 244 runs in the same time. Even if we had stayed at 4.2 runs an over we'd have scored 197 runs. It's typical India to slow down the run rate when we are in a commanding position and take the pressure off the other team. It was only after the 149th over that we scored 34 in 23 balls and declared!! We only accelerated for 4 overs, that is where we went wrong not the timing of the declaration!

Very correct! India took their foot off the pedal after Ganguly's dismissal. Till then, Ganguly & Laxman were scoring at 4.5 rpo. Both played with soft hands, rotated the strike brilliantly, scored the odd boundary, which got more regular, as the bowlers got tired. They had an answer for each ploy Pakistan employed (Danish's leg stump line, Shoaib's slower ones, Seamers operating with field spread out to choke the boundaries, to name a few) Enter Dhoni. The stage was perfectly setup for him. Instead of launching an assault on the bowling, he completely killed the momentum. Quite an unusual innings from Dhoni, of all people. His innings meant that we finished 50 runs short of where we should have. The timing of the declaration was right. India wanted to bowl atleast 15 overs to their tiring openers. But our target (which I hoped would be 675), was cut short.

[fineleg]

I think we declared at the correct time with a decent enough score... Then, 150-5 was beyond our wildest dreams, but what happened after was a disgrace, and in that light, one can be fooled into thinking the declaration was not timed correctly...

CoB, Absolutely. But whattodo...this sort of thing has been repeated many times.

[Ram]

Its just very easy to speak in hindsight. If 2 days before the match, if someone would have told us that India would 616/5 in 152 overs at a RR of 4.05, we would all have said " Wow, that would be awesome if that comes true". Now, the same fans are bashing the team for "slowing down" after Ganguly fell. Even though Dhoni and Laxman seemed slow , they put 80 runs in 23 overs, which is excellent for test cricket. Why the fans see passages of play in isolation and decide to either praise or bash the cricket team is beyond my comprehension. This is not a movie to write a script and enact it. Its a match and there are uncertainties, changing tempos, oscillating momentum. We should understand that.

[Donny]

How is 616 "too late" ? More importantly, how is 575 "ideal" ? And to add on, Ind were 574/5 in 146 overs, and 616/5 in 152 overs. Thats a difference of 8 overs. How could that have become "late" ?

1. On an obvious batting paradise, India needed all the time it could get to get Pakistan out twice. At around 525, they should've hit the quick 50 - not at 574. One batsman (VVS) was well in and the incoming batsman (MSD) is well known for his ability to score quickly. What did they do ? VVS used up 37 balls to go from 86 to 100 and MSD took 46 balls to score 10. 2. 575 is ideal because even India couldn't lose a Test from there.

[Bumper]

Its just very easy to speak in hindsight. If 2 days before the match, if someone would have told us that India would 616/5 in 152 overs at a RR of 4.05, we would all have said " Wow, that would be awesome if that comes true". Now, the same fans are bashing the team for "slowing down" after Ganguly fell. Even though Dhoni and Laxman seemed slow , they put 80 runs in 23 overs, which is excellent for test cricket. Why the fans see passages of play in isolation and decide to either praise or bash the cricket team is beyond my comprehension. This is not a movie to write a script and enact it. Its a match and there are uncertainties, changing tempos, oscillating momentum. We should understand that.

What is hindsightful about Dhoni's innings of 50 off 95 balls (three of his boundaries coming in the last over). ? Effectively prior to the last over, Dhoni scored 38 off 90 balls. Thats a SR of 42.22. Compare that with his average strike rate (72.21) as test bat. It tells you it is a sub par performance from Dhoni, when scoring quickly was the ONLY thing expected of him.

[Mr. Wicket]

2. 575 is ideal because even India couldn't lose a Test from there.

It's test cricket, Donny. Never discount what a team is capable of, especially one like Pakistan. Heck, in the last four years we've seen two tests lost after first innings scores over 550. 575's safe in most cases, but this is an age where teams can still win against big scores by just going out and responding with a similarly large or larger score while the pitch is run-friendly.

[Ram]

1. On an obvious batting paradise, India needed all the time it could get to get Pakistan out twice. At around 525, they should've hit the quick 50 - not at 574. One batsman (VVS) was well in and the incoming batsman (MSD) is well known for his ability to score quickly. What did they do ? VVS used up 37 balls to go from 86 to 100 and MSD took 46 balls to score 10.

I have pointed out that India didnt lose more than 6-7 overs in extending their innings till 616 and also the fact that the pair ultimately put on 80 runs at 3.7 RPO which is excellent for test cricket. Have you totally ignored these stats ?

2. 575 is ideal because even India couldn't lose a Test from there.

There was something called Laxman century. The management couldnt declare then, leaving him stranded in the 90s