sensible-indian

Roko should be thrown out. But this is a big issue too. Denial won't solve the problem. Chalo, lost another save-able game due to a needless shot. 2 spinners are hardly the issue. They were barely used and as I speak... Irony is Lyon played a crucial role in the win.

Yes but let's acknowledge reality. It is a big issue. But right now, we have bigger fish to fry.

Remember our discussion @Nikhil_cric bhai? You mentioned I was unfairly expecting Pant to be as steady as Pujara & score like Pant. And I said the issue is more nuanced.

HORRIBLE quality of cricket tbf. Let this circus end soon.

What I loved about Rahane was that his captaincy was sooooo precise. He just knew when to give the ball to whom. And if things didnt work out, he would course correct... He had a deep understanding of the rhythm of the game which Rohit lacks. There are times when you have to stick with a bowler even though results arent there yet...and there are times when sticking on only worsens the situation. You can only make these changes if you understand the game on a deep level which is why MSD was such a monster captain in LOIs. And then theres field setting. (I felt Kohli and Rahane used to have pretty solid field sets for test cricket).

Its a miracle we are still in the series after the comedy captaincy by Rohit. This guy has no idea how to use bowlers, when to make bowling changes, how to set fields, etc. Imagine Rahane as the captain here. Poor Aussies would have had trauma by now lol.

How come Australia is struggling to beat this Indian side? I am blown away by the fact that we can STILL win the series from here (theoretically). Imagine if we win this series and Rohit is declared as the best captain by PR? India lost 1-4 in England in 2018 and we were wayyyyyyyy better there. Here we are 1-1 and we have been beyond pathetic. Stats lol.

Saha is so under-rated. Is he the greatest Indian wicket keeper? Where does he stand at the world level?

He isn't. The moment he got better with the bat, his bowling dipped. Now let's see if he can bounce back. Its very hard to make both work.

Exactly. On both counts. If Sundar transforms into a proper spinner who can hold, take wickets and bowl long spells - thats different but its crazy to expect that right now.

Exactly. Once Irfans bowling started failing, its easy to delude yourself into thinking you are a batsman. Very dangerous. Even Jaddu in the first half of his career was focused on bowling and then switched it up. Mind you, he is one of the few rare ARs who can be good at both. Jaddu had INSANE reps in the domestics with the bat even tho he looked horrible in the international circuit. Then the change came and there was no looking back.

So you are basically saying what I am saying.

Ali wasn't good - yes. But that doesn't mean he wasn't treated unfairly. Dude was made into a lone spinner and thrown brickbats when he failed. Can easily mess up the mindset. "Irfan was destroyed by Chappell by batting him at 3 when he was a bowler." Break it down further and see. When you expect a bowler to play like a batsman, the bowler sees himself as a bat and focuses on it. When chinks appear, confusion seeps in and if you aren't careful, you can fall by the wayside. Irfan was killed by wrong expectations and his inability to understand that bowling was his MAIN suit. Chappel was just the easy scapegoat. Very few players in the world are equally good at bowling & batting. For the rest, there is a strong and weak suit and if they aren't careful, it can unravel fast. No point lamenting after its done. Right now, there are some dangerous expectations being thrust on Sundar.

Capable yes. Will he? Time will tell. We are expecting Sundar to bowl like Ash/Jaddu and bat like Sundar (not saying you or Vijy are but that could end up being the perception and that's dangerous). A bit of an unfair ask imho.

Totally. I just hope people don't typecast Sundar and then throw him away once his bowling starts to crack (due to lack of experience). Irfan Pathan & Moeen Ali's test career got screwed over this way. They got confused what was their primary role and things went downhill. But I would also give Kuldeep a shot. Dude has the most incredible ceiling of them all. But such spinners need GREAT captains to thrive.

The problem is assuming Sundar is a proper spinner who will keep performing the same way. Who can pick wickets and control the run flow by bowling a hell a lot of overs like Lyon or Jaddu do. Once a wrong assumption is locked in, it leads to an erroneous path.

Need 1 proper spinner for 90% pitches in SENA. The others Sundar can be the lone spinner. The 4 pacer template is all eye wash. Extremely over-rated. Its fine for teams that dont have good spinners but 3 rock solid pacers plus 1 spinner plus Washi type AR gives us the best balance.

Adding to my previous reply Also the primary spinner also has to slog keeping the economy down. Even if he doesnt have enough wickets. Kuldeep may not be able to control the economy much but he has far higher wicket taking threat. So it works out. Different tools to get the job done. We gotta choose properly. Sundar plus Kuldeep is a great combo. A great starting point post Jaddus retirement.

Im saying exactly what you said. Thats literally my point. Sundar is a batting AR.

Yeah but apart from that test, it was boring.

I get you...sundar is a must for SENA... But not as a main spinner unless the pitch has nothing for spinners. Averages are just one metric. Wickets per game is a crucial metric for a primary spinner. Chiming in with 1-2 wickets when pacers are wreaking havoc is one thing... But that doesnt necessarily mean he can carry the load as a primary spinner who needs to bowl like a workhorse. We are expecting way too much from someone who is yet to do the hard yards. The consequences of these expectation is that he will get dropped when his bowling performances dips...when in reality, thats NOT his strong suit. Tanush Kotian also falls in the same category.

True. Unpredictability & drama wise: 2001 - blockbuster 2003 - blockbuster 2004 - blockbuster 2007 - blockbuster 2008 - boring cos India was too strong 2010 - same except the one game where Laxman snatched a win outta nowhere 2011 - boring as India was too weak 2013 - fun but Aus couldn't play spin 2014 - great series 2017 - blockbuster 2018 - fun cos India controlled from day 1 thanks to Pujara 2020 - blockbuster 2023 - blockbuster 2024 - interesting for sure even though quality of cricket is low from both sides (barring a few players)

He hasn't done the hard yards in domestics. Usually players revert to their mean in a long enough time span. Sure, might not happen with Washi who looks like a proper spinner for now... But time will tell if he will be one. Low sample set stats are not reliable.

Totally. Every BGT since 2017 has been box office. A customary FU to the phattu BCCI to create a patta in Ahmedabad to deny us a great series finale in 2023.

Eng pitches have troubled us wayyyy more than Aus pitches in the last 15 years. Eng swing is a huge problem. The ball swings for a long long time. NZ will become flat but only after being a green pitch for a day. And indian pitch being a whole different beast. So long road ahead.