Funny, Us Indian Fans

[Dhondy]

Interesting debate, here, when there really should be none.

Not the sort of statement you would be making to your class on an emotive issue, Prof, surely? So no debate, eh? The issue is all sealed and decided, is it? QED? Or shall we call it the brotherhood of the Profs?:D

I agree with the professor here. When all attempts at diplomacy failed, we had to pull the stops. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it is the grace that we have shown over the years trying to abide by the "process" that let it get this far. It is that grace that got the Australian captain and his boys take us for granted.

The sort of grace we showed in getting Mike Denness removed as match referee, and get a scheduled Test declared unofficial? Ha ha ha, I like that! Nothing official about it.

It is time we fought muck with muck, and it worked. The result is there for all to see. If one cannot see the difference between the systematic umpiring biases (not incompetence, mind you) in Sydney, and the few errors in Perth, then one's whistling past the graveyard.

And where's your scientific bias-meter, may I ask? What's to stop every team out there from alleging bias when decisions go against them? Ageing eyes and ears will make mistakes, perhaps many of them, and judgements will be influenced by the seedings of the two sides in battle. As decisions have to be made, and not delegated except in certain circumstances, there will be those that will be the result of guesswork. Pray tell me, how did you make the intuitive leap from guesswork to bias? If indeed, there is bias here at play, it is a protopathic bias, and on your part, not the umpire's. You are protesting because India lost. Your perspective is colored by the unfavourable outcome that your side has suffered, and hence you see associations that in fact did not lead to the outcome. The outcome, in this case, the Australian win, was predicted by the resilience of the Australian side and the ineptness of your own under pressure, and the "biases" that you allege had little or no bearing on the eventual result.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[King]

It wasn't just the Indians that felt the umpiring in the last test match was dismal but every neutral (even the Aussies) felt the last test match was a farce overseen by the umpires. Doesn't matter how much noise was made about it then but there is no hiding for the two umpires concerned in the last test match. They stuffed the test match and altered the course of the test match not one but many times. It is rare to see such dismal standards on a single day but they carried on screwing up the test match session by session.

[Dhondy]

Doc, being a man of stats and logic I thought you would understand the concept of spread ,distribution and such .... if Bucky (& that other jerk) was truly a equal oppurtunity incompetent git as per your theory .... there would have been quite a few instances of him mugging the Aussies in the manner and style at display in Sydney. I dare you to dig up ONE single instance. Failing which you need to kindly shut up. And yes in real life as in other than sport ... courts have held that a trend which indicates favors to one single party over a time period amounts to bias ... considering how we have not invented a mind reading machine to get into Bucknors mind and see how the fack it works.

All bullshyte coming from your paranoid mind, I am afraid. I am not the one that needs to shut up. Which bit of the top dog getting the marginals did you not understand? Go and look at all the spreads you want to. Not as if they will get you to see anything beyond your nose, bloated with self-indignant veins.

[talksport]

Pray tell me How the F***K Hussey is not out, before people use him in the arguments Hit him on the back pad, ( implying even if 50/50 decisions goes against batsmen ) and no inside edge , ball going in the path of middle stump.... And yes has anybody seen Hawk Eye or are you guys taking Aussie commentators word who are upset by Husseys disappointment

[Dhondy]

BTW, congrats on being the best statsman. You beat me by only 100 points.:D I thought it'd be closer to a 1000.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[The Outsider]

Pray tell me How the F***K Hussey is not out, before people use him in the arguments Hit him on the back pad, ( implying even if 50/50 decisions goes against batsmen ) and no inside edge , ball going in the path of middle stump.... And yes has anybody seen Hawk Eye or are you guys taking Aussie commentators word who are upset by Husseys disappointment

I don't think they showed a Hawkeye of it and only after watching many replays did the commentators start saying it was high. Initial reaction was out from the commentary team.

[aussiefan]

agree with original post....to highlight this, the ashes campaign which we lost, and will always mean more to some aussies than this one, was decided on a wrong call...c'est la vie as the french suggest...... or as one of our more famous criminals ned kelly said, before he was hanged, "such is life"....we move on to the next match.... criminal :giggle: = convict :haha:

[The Outsider]

agree with original post....to highlight this, the ashes campaign which we lost, and will always mean more to some aussies than this one, was decided on a wrong call...c'est la vie as the french suggest...... or as one of our more famous criminals ned kelly said, before he was hanged, "such is life"....we move on to the next match.... criminal :giggle: = convict :haha:

Talk about delusion at it's very best. The Kappa dismissal was found to be not out after many many replays. It does not enter the same ballpark of the howlers at Sydney as far as umpiring decisions go. And Sydney was not just about umpiring mistakes. It was about a procedural breakdown which I have highlighted at many places.

[Bumper]

1) Many of the bizzare decisions at Sydney cannot be brushed aside as mere top dog bias. The Symonds howler (edge off Ishant) & Dravid's in the 2nd innings could be attributed to top dog biases. But what about Benson not invoking the 3rd umpire or Bucknor not asking Ganguly to stay back (like he did for Pietersen) or Bucknor not deferring Symond's stumping to a third umpire or even the third umpire ruling it in favor of Symonds when the Ch 9 commentators all thought it was out ? These are not your everyday umpiring errors that can be called 'marginals' going in favor of the bullies. And even if we entertain this 'bully bias' theory, isnt that unfair to the lesser teams ? How are lesser teams supposed to compete then ? If an umpire cannot guarantee even that much maturity/competence, then may be he isnt good enough to officiate at the test level. It is one thing to succumb to pressure, due to aggressive appealing (as it worked against Tendulkar in the 1st inns) and an entirely another to rule the marginal decisions in favor of the top team. The former is a natural human error, the latter is not. 2) As for why India did not complian against Bucknor prior to the series, on what basis would India do that against an ICC umpire ? The Sydney test was the perfect opportunity to get rid of him. If we had done nothing about him then, by the time the test series is over, everything would be forgotten & it'd be deja vu again, come next test series. 3) According to your own 'high stakes poker', 'winner takes all' analogy, how does it matter how we flex our muscles, as long as it guarantees us a win. We dont have to be graceful in winning or losing, should we ? Whatever we did, however we did, it worked! The pressure we put on the umpires meant Rauf & Bowden were honest, fair and most importantly consistent for both teams. The pressure we put on the Aussie players made them behave on the field. I dont reckon India would have won had Bucknor officiated this test match. He'd have ruled several marginals (that Rauf denied) in Aussie's favor. It all happened for the good.

[Dhondy]

What part of that fits into the fair play model ?

Arre bhai, what fairplay? Why are you so impossibly utopian? Last night I told myself not to be disappointed if India lost, because I was convinced that they would get a few vital decisions going their way. As it turned out, we got them ones. Put it in a diary. It ain't happening again in this series. Umpires in Australia are under huge pressure to give decisions in favour of the home team. Dar, Koertzen, Bowden, Bucknor, have all been swayed by their aggressive and cocksure appealing and the roar from the crowd. Why do you think Australia have a near perfect record at the MCG? This is a side that has 30% more points than their closest rivals. They make their own breaks. When India do as well, we'll get some coming our way as well.

[talksport]

I dont buy TOP DOG GETTING MARGINALS argument.... Home Teams getting marginals holds true in American sports and Football, because of Crowd Pressure. Also there are flaws in your argument... like India suddenly becoming a Top dog today because they are leading in the Test..... Tell me Why wasnt India a top dog on last day of Sydney 2003-04 or even a top dog on first day of Sydney 2007-08 when Australia were 5 down with just over 100 runs... A more plausible explanation is from a match fixing angle With so much money riding in Betting industry , TOP DOGS or FAVOURITES winning is in general good for Book Makers .....

[Dhondy]

I dont buy TOP DOG GETTING MARGINALS argument.... Home Teams getting marginals holds true in American sports and Football, because of Crowd Pressure. Also there are flaws in your argument... like India suddenly becoming a Top dog today because they are leading in the Test..... Tell me Why wasnt India a top dog on last day of Sydney 2003-04 or even a top dog on first day of Sydney 2007-08 when Australia were 5 down with just over 100 runs... A more plausible explanation is from a match fixing angle With so much money riding in Betting industry , TOP DOGS or FAVOURITES winning is in general good for Book Makers .....

Try spelling P-a-t-e-l to explain 2004. And sorry, who's fixing what? I didn't quite get that.

[Guest dada_rocks]

(1) Sachin wrongly given (2) Dhoni wrongly given (3) Ponting not given couple of times this is what one calles evenly distributed umpiring howlers.. not what trasnpired in sydney where just two centurios on their side each got four and three lives.. POnting got couple.. then they cheated two by claiming false catch.. then dravid gets howler so does dhoni and rp singh in second inning scoreline was sthg 11-2.. thsi is called thuggery not umpiring error

[The Outsider]

We were top dogs yesterday and under dogs at Sydney when Australia were 100 odd for 5. That's got to be the weirdest logic I have seen.

[talksport]

Try spelling P-a-t-e-l to explain 2004.

OK, Thanks. Try spelling S*W*I*N*G , S*P*I*N for to explain Perth. Thought your OP is about umpires and top dogs...did not realize it was a TROLL

[Dhondy]

OK, Thanks. Try spelling S*W*I*N*G , S*P*I*N for to explain Perth. Thought your OP is about umpires and top dogs...did not realize it was a TROLL

Oh fack off with your one-liners, bud. You won't get any loose change here.

[Dhondy]

We were top dogs yesterday and under dogs at Sydney when Australia were 100 odd for 5. That's got to be the weirdest logic I have seen.

Are you being deliberately naive or what? You have never heard of this concept through three decades of living, I take it?

[Rajiv]

Dhondy, whats up. I have never seen you so vociferous and attacking; very unlike your nature. From a simple logic that we lost due to bad decisions at Sydney and here we won fair and square ( IND: TENDULKAR, DHONI GIVEN OUT - AUS: HARRY POTTER, SYMONDS, MARGINAL HUSSEY ) So where's the problem Did the OTT celebrations tick you off