Should Kaif be recalled in Test team ?

[talksport]

Shwetabh' date=' I really do want to give proper replies to your post, but I would rather wait till some other day.[/quote'] But you reply to my post

[Ram]

But you reply to my post

Apologies, I seem to have missed your post till now.

I thing you are missing.... The fact Sachin/Laxman/Dravid are great Test Batsmen is Hard Work.... The effort they put in nets/practice is insurmountable. They think about the game all the time. Yuvraj on the other hand with all the talent and rubbing off with greats is wasting it and I think thats the point Dhondy/Shweta are making :D

Ok, here goes then. I would like to ask you, how on earth could you make a statement along the lines of " Yuvraj is wasting his talent" ? And how could you know Dravid/Sachin work any harder than Yuvraj in the nets ? You are making sweeping statements, based on information you could never be privy to, to begin with. Strange.

[Ram]

See' date=' Yuvraj is not a bad player but he will never become a test player by touring around the world, playing in the nets, and carrying drinks. He needs to spend a good season in domestic cricket to become a test batsman. Till then he is going to keep on failing because he has no clue as to what balls to leave and what to play in test matches. A domestic season will also improve his game against spin.[/quote'] Proff, but havent we seen enough of players like Sehwag, Ganguly, Pathan, coming back from being dropped, that a players' performance in FC cricket is hardly a measure of potential in international cricket ?

[Ram]

>>>>>And with regards to references of Yuvraj being the poster boy' date=' giving celebrity interviews and stuff, I can only laugh. What do you expect a 26 year old with [b']dashing looks to do ? Ewwww Sriram eewwwwwwwwww! Agree with Swetabh completely .

Beets, I am not the type you may make me out to be. :D

[The Outsider]

Proff' date=' but havent we seen enough of players like Sehwag, Ganguly, Pathan, coming back from being dropped, that a players' performance in FC cricket is hardly a measure of potential in international cricket ?[/quote'] I am not talking or asking Yuvraj to pile on the runs in domestic cricket. He has two huge problems as a test batsman : 1. He is unsure of what balls to leave and which ones to play. That will work fine against the likes of Sami and Arafat who dish out garbage and you can keep on playing your strokes on a flat pitch. Whenever there will be something in the pitch or he will come against the quality of Lee and Clark who will keep on probing in the corridor of uncertainty he will nick one sooner of later because of his tendency to play a defensive jab at everything, unsure of his off stump. 2. Spinners are a completely different proposition in test matches than ODIs. You cannot get away with just having the sweep shot in tests against spinners. He needs to develop number 1 in county cricket and number 2 in domestic cricket. He is not going to learn these things by batting in the nets even under the eye of some of the greatest batsmen.

[Guest Hiten.]

Yea' date= keep taking pot-shots at Yuvraj all of you. He will end up as one India's most prolific test match batsman, mark my words. He proved the world wrong, when most had given up on him in 2003/2004. He came back to become the world's best one-day batsman in the last 30 months. He will show his mettle in tests too. This guy is a rare talent, one which needs to be celebrated, not ridiculed. Dont forget, its just a matter of time before the likes of Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman are gone for good from the test team too. That day, I am sure you will all be secretly praying that Yuvraj comes good for us. Now, he seems a liability because of how strong our batting is, soon, he will seem like an invaluable asset. Of course he has failed on the many chances that were given to him, but is that reason enough to ridicule him like this ? After all, this guy has the architect of most of our triumphs in one-day cricket in the last 3 years, Did all those performances come out of thin air ? I have seen enough of Yuvraj to be convinced he can succeed in test cricket, under the most testing condition and the best of bowling. He re-invented himself in one-day cricket, he will do the same in test cricket too. And comparing Kaif to Yuvraj is the biggest insult one could bestow on Yuvraj. Kaif is a pathetic batsman, who rarely won matches for India on his own, which is quite understandable really. He is such a limited batsman to begin with. All he did was to run-around,taking some spectacular catches and doing the odd supporting role when he was batting. No wonder, younger, much more talented batsman have taken his spot from the team. Yuvraj is a Gem, he will end up as one of India's best ever batsman and that day, I will come back and quote all your posts ridiculing him. Lets see where you hide faces then.

Unfortunately your words are not enough to help India win and strengthen our middle order. Its like saying give a chance to new born baby as the astrological numbers suggest that he has a bright and prosperous future in cricket. I, for one have absolutely no doubt about Yuvraj's immense talent that he carries. But carrying a talent and delivering a talent is two different things. Yuvraj has done nothing to get a callback to our test line up. Kaif has struggled in the early period of Indian FC cricket but now he is piling runs in FC cricket. How can he be ignored for his deeds that too over Yuvraj who can hardly play spinners even if his life was depended on.

And with regards to references of Yuvraj being the poster boy, giving celebrity interviews and stuff, I can only laugh. What do you expect a 26 year old with dashing looks to do ? Go around in Saffron preaching the merits of a abstinence ? And just to make put things place, Yuvraj has, without doubt, been one of the most non-controversial cricketers, given his popularity and profile. Can anyone here point out a single major controversy he has been involved in ? Even when the selectors over-looked him for Dhoni when they appointed the new ODI captain, he didnt utter a syllable in protest.

Sachin Tendulkar has been in the sport for 20 years, have you ever seen him make such unnecessary comments ? Yuvraj singh did not utter a syllable in protest but he used his father to convey his messages.

[Bumper]

Yuvraj is not as bad a batsman as he is performing at the moment. Its not enough to have talent alone. The guy shows pi$$ poor application. Where is the hunger, where is the drive ? Failing in your first series, in Australia, is the norm for even great Indian cricketers (Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble, Laxman etc). But failing abjectly without showing even an inclination for a fight, is utterly disappointing. He cant complain after this series, that he has been unfairly sidelined. He will have to wait for one of our middle order bats to retire.

[Ram]

I am not talking or asking Yuvraj to pile on the runs in domestic cricket. He has two huge problems as a test batsman : 1. He is unsure of what balls to leave and which ones to play. That will work fine against the likes of Sami and Arafat who dish out garbage and you can keep on playing your strokes on a flat pitch. Whenever there will be something in the pitch or he will come against the quality of Lee and Clark who will keep on probing in the corridor of uncertainty he will nick one sooner of later because of his tendency to play a defensive jab at everything, unsure of his off stump. 2. Spinners are a completely different proposition in test matches than ODIs. You cannot get away with just having the sweep shot in tests against spinners. He needs to develop number 1 in county cricket and number 2 in domestic cricket. He is not going to learn these things by batting in the nets even under the eye of some of the greatest batsmen.

Proff, with regards to point no1, Would you call Sehwag a "good leaver of balls outside off-stump" ? And talking of technique, did Sadagoppan Ramesh have a technique any better than Yuvraj ? But didnt he, at one stage in his career, average in the mid-40s as an opener ? What i feel is that Yuvraj's problems are more mental than anything else, as far as his performance in test cricket is concerned. He is just putting too much pressure on himself, he needs to work a bit on his mental aspect of things, the bits and pieces will fall into places after that. As regards to point no2, I am willing to more credit to Yuvraj's ability to play spin, compared to you guys. I just think he hasnt been around long enough for us to know, how well he is capable of playing spin. Its much like the Ponting V Bhajji thing. Ponting hasnt been around for long enough to show he is a good player of spin in the past, but didnt he make a century with the same Bhajji bowling 45 overs at him ?

[talksport]

Apologies, I seem to have missed your post till now. Ok, here goes then. I would like to ask you, how on earth could you make a statement along the lines of " Yuvraj is wasting his talent" ? And how could you know Dravid/Sachin work any harder than Yuvraj in the nets ? You are making sweeping statements, based on information you could never be privy to, to begin with. Strange.

Test Players, they are Sachin, Dravid and Laxman. Sachins Hard work on Batting is well documented ....He prepares himself for every series.Bowling machines before Pakistan Tour to counter Shoib/Sami or Getting Leg Spinners to counter Warne etc. Dravid never out of form in test cricket...and deserved his chance in the first place to get into Test Team by excellent Ranji Records ..When he is dropped recently went back and scored a double in Ranji. He also plays county cricket be it a small club like scotland ( ok, there is pleasure as well) when he gets time. Laxman : 9 in 9 in First Class Cricket when dropped, fought back into team. Rarely misses a chances to play in County/Lashings/Ranji. Also I know for sure Laxman prepared for 2003 Australia series by practisng on cement tracks for hours with wet Tennis Balls to get used to bounce of Australia in Hyderabad. He is always seen in nets n Gymkhana. Recently after England Test tour promptly played County cricket last year. Mind you , they are all talented as yuvraj. Yuvraj on the other hand rarely gets a chance or takes a chance to reflect his form or batting

[Ram]

Unfortunately your words are not enough to help India win and strengthen our middle order. Its like saying give a chance to new born baby as the astrological numbers suggest that he has a bright and prosperous future in cricket. I, for one have absolutely no doubt about Yuvraj's immense talent that he carries. But carrying a talent and delivering a talent is two different things. Yuvraj has done nothing to get a callback to our test line up. Kaif has struggled in the early period of Indian FC cricket but now he is piling runs in FC cricket. How can he be ignored for his deeds that too over Yuvraj who can hardly play spinners even if his life was depended on.

BB, i have answered most of your points, at various stages in this thread.

Sachin Tendulkar has been in the sport for 20 years, have you ever seen him make such unnecessary comments ? Yuvraj singh did not utter a syllable in protest but he used his father to convey his messages.

Come on BB, that Yograj is a mental, we all know that.

[Guest Hiten.]

on the same note... why drop bhajji he had tremendous series vs Aus in 01/02 get my point ?

[The Outsider]

Proff, with regards to point no1, Would you call Sehwag a "good leaver of balls outside off-stump" ? And talking of technique, did Sadagoppan Ramesh have a technique any better than Yuvraj ? But didnt he, at one stage in his career, average in the mid-40s as an opener ? What i feel is that Yuvraj's problems are more mental than anything else, as far as his performance in test cricket is concerned. He is just putting too much pressure on himself, he needs to work a bit on his mental aspect of things, the bits and pieces will fall into places after that.

Sehwag and Yuvraj are not even in the same league. And for all the criticism Sehwag gets, he has an extremely still head while executing his shots. Wright, in his book, has also mentioned that Sehwag's technique as far as keeping a still head is concerned is supreme. Sorry, but if you are putting benchmarks as Ramesh to make your case I don't know what to say. He was never tested enough to find out if he was good enough or not.

As regards to point no2, I am willing to more credit to Yuvraj's ability to play more, compared to you guys. I just think he hasnt been around long enough for us to know, how well he is capable of playing spin. Its much like the Ponting V Bhajji thing. Ponting hasnt been around for long enough to show he is a good player of spin in the past, but didnt he make a century with the same Bhajji bowling 45 overs at him ?

On a flat track with Harbhajan dishing out garbage, yes Ponting scored a hundred. When he does that on turners in India we'll see what he is made of. Yuvraj in his present avatar will never make it as a test batsman, you heard it here first.

[Bumper]

What do you guys think of Jaffar ? The guy never fails on flat tracks. But pit him in English, Saffie or Aussie conditions & watch him fail everytime. We cannot give up on players because they are FTBs. Its important to have players who can score on flat tracks too. And IMO, success/failure against Australia should be used to judge the player's class as opposed to making a decision on keeping/dropping him. Yuvraj or Dhoni will still kill average bowlers in subcontinental conditions. They will be useful players in such conditions.

[The Outsider]

What do you guys think of Jaffar ? The guy never fails on flat tracks. But pit him in English, Saffie or Aussie conditions & watch him fail everytime. We cannot give up on players because they are FTBs. Its important to have players who can score on flat tracks too. And IMO, success/failure against Australia should be used to judge the player's class as opposed to making a decision on keeping/dropping him. Yuvraj or Dhoni will still kill average bowlers in subcontinental conditions. They will be useful players in such conditions.

We don't have non FTB opener replacements except Chopra, who can be given another run. On the other hand we have a surfeit of middle order batsmen who can potentially be non FTBs and be worthy successors to our middle order, instead of pretenders like Yuvraj.

[Mr. Wicket]

My main concern with Kaif was his inability to make big scores. The hundred he made in the Windies in 2006 was his first in a 3-4 year span of first class cricket. Until then, he had been a solid, gritty batsman with a good technique, but not the hunger and temperament to build big hundreds. This season has changed that. He's producing big scores far more consistently than he ever has in his life. I'm hoping he's turned the corner as a batsman and changed from a guy capable of making good 40s and 50s to one who can deliver the big innings when needed to. He's earned a recall with the weight of runs this season. Push him up the pecking order, and if a place opens up, throw him in the XI ahead of Yuvraj.

[Dhondy]

What do you guys think of Jaffar ? The guy never fails on flat tracks. But pit him in English, Saffie or Aussie conditions & watch him fail everytime. We cannot give up on players because they are FTBs. Its important to have players who can score on flat tracks too. And IMO, success/failure against Australia should be used to judge the player's class as opposed to making a decision on keeping/dropping him. Yuvraj or Dhoni will still kill average bowlers in subcontinental conditions. They will be useful players in such conditions.

Bumps, Jaffer is a must in the subcontinent. He's just that type of batsman, riches under certain conditions, poverty in others. I'd select him against SA without any hesitation at all. On flat tracks, against all but the very best bowlers, he's capable of scoring a mountain of runs, and the one guy in the side capable of double hundreds.

[msb1991]

My main concern with Kaif was his inability to make big scores. The hundred he made in the Windies in 2006 was his first in a 3-4 year span of first class cricket. Until then, he had been a solid, gritty batsman with a good technique, but not the hunger and temperament to build big hundreds. This season has changed that. He's producing big scores far more consistently than he ever has in his life. I'm hoping he's turned the corner as a batsman and changed from a guy capable of making good 40s and 50s to one who can deliver the big innings when needed to. He's earned a recall with the weight of runs this season. Push him up the pecking order, and if a place opens up, throw him in the XI ahead of Yuvraj.

Surely Badrinath has done far more this year to earn a place in the Test team than Kaif. Badrinath scored runs consistently against Kenya, Zimbabwe and South Africa A, the former perhaps the same standard as the average domestic side and the latter two most certainly better than one.

[Dravid]

kaif to strengthn our middle order for tests? dravid, sachin, dada, vvs, dhoni, pathan were does kaif go? uselesss, couple of good knocks..and back to his ****...he is making runs in domestic..basically not that many good bowlers... remember 0,0,4,0,8,2,0,16,0,0??

[Predator_05]

Kaif is the MAN. Bring him back, ASAP. He shouldn't have been dropped in the first place.

[Mr. Wicket]

Surely Badrinath has done far more this year to earn a place in the Test team than Kaif. Badrinath scored runs consistently against Kenya' date=' Zimbabwe and South Africa A, the former perhaps the same standard as the average domestic side and the latter two most certainly better than one.[/quote'] Runs vs. Kenya and Zimbabwe should be taken with a grain of salt. Badrinath's season has been rather inconsistent this year - he's had a few notable failures in some of the higher profile games, or on more lively tracks which may work against him. Kaif's been far more consistent all season long, and looks to be in a fantastic groove as a batsman right now.