arkay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Indian reaction: Dileep Premchandran (Aussies Jealousy) Indian reaction: Monkey and the Mother http://timesonline.typepad.com/the_doosra/2008/01/the-monkey-and.html Andrew Symonds at the Harbhajan Singh appeal hearing (Reuters)Justice John Hansen's judgment following Harbhajan Singh's appeal hearing in Adelaide runs to 22 pages and 8040 words. As is the case with most legal documents, it's not easy to read, but the salient points are there for anyone to come across. First, Hansen tries to establish what led to the incident between Harbhajan and Andrew Symonds. "It is clear that Mr Lee bowled an excellent yorker to Mr Singh who was fortunate to play the ball to fine leg," he writes. "As he passed Mr Lee while completing a single Mr Singh patted Mr Lee on the backside. Anyone observing this incident would take it to be a clear acknowledgement of 'well bowled'." An innocuous incident and certainly nothing to spark off a row that nearly resulted in the series being called off. Unfortunately though, it wasn't innocuous for one man. "However Mr Symonds took objection to this and at the end of the 116th over he approached Mr Singh telling him he had no friends among the Australians in foul and abusive language," says Hansen. "Mr Singh became angry and responded in kind. It was accepted by Mr Symonds that some of Mr Singh’s response was in his native language." When questioned by VR Manohar, counsel for Harbhajan, Symonds couldn't assert with any certainty what was said. "I put it to you that apart from the other Indian abuses he said to you the words “teri maki [Your mother]â€? asks Manohar. "Possibly," says Symonds. "I don’t recall, I don’t speak that language." Hansen then examines the role of the witnesses or those that had claimed to have heard the exchange. He zeroes in on Sachin Tendulkar, batting with Harbhajan at the time. "Contrary to reports that Mr Tendulkar heard nothing, he told me he heard a heated exchange and wished to calm Mr Singh down," writes Hansen. "His evidence was that there was swearing between the two. It was initiated by Mr Symonds. That he did not hear the word “monkey†or “big monkey†but he did say he heard Mr Singh use a term in his native tongue “teri maki†which appears to be pronounced with a “nâ€. He said this is a term that sounds like “monkey†and could be misinterpreted for it." The Australians - Matthew Hayden, Michael Clarke and Symonds himself - keep mentioning "big monkey", but there appears to be collective amnesia when it comes to what else was said. Those are the facts of the matter. As you read through it, the spotlight slowly shifts away from Harbhajan and on to Symonds himself. He was the one that took umbrage, after an incident that Lee himself thought nothing of. There were unsubstantiated rumours too that Symonds used a homophobic slur while initially abusing Harbhajan. That forces us to take a look at the Code of Conduct. While no civilised human being would approve of racial abuse, are other kinds acceptable on the field of play or anywhere else? Why should homophobic slurs be kosher when racist ones are not? Is referring to an opponent's wife as a two-dollar hooker less offensive than calling someone a monkey? The friction between Symonds and Harbhajan dated back to the one-day tour of India in October, one that Symonds started with a chapter right out of How to Win Friends and Influence People. "The feeling has come from the carry-on that surrounded India’s Twenty20 world Cup win," he said in a column that Sydney's Daily Telegraph titled We Won't Take a Backward Step. "When we got here, it was just everywhere. Our blokes thought it was over the top. Some of the things their players have been given and the way they are treated, it’s like they are rock stars and princes. The Indian government gave them a heap of money. Yuvraj Singh got a Porsche. Blokes are getting houses and blocks of land." Many that read the article would find it both pathetic and amusing at the same time, not to mention tinged with envy. The celebrations were undoubtedly over the top, hijacked by jingoistic elements in the media and on the streets, but it also had to be remembered that India's improbable win had come just six months after the national team bombed out of the World Cup in the opening round. So what if Yuvraj got a Porsche and others got houses? New Zealand's All Blacks are feted like rock stars, as are Brazil's footballers and Canada's ice hockey players. Did Symonds have an issue with all of them as well? Hansen also refers to a deal made between the two during that tour when they agreed not to provoke each other on the field. He goes on to say: "It makes sense to me and it would be more likely that it was a two way agreement that they would not speak on the field and this was initially breached by Mr Symonds’ provocative abuse." The trigger for that abuse? A friendly pat on the back[side]. When Manohar asked him if he objected to the pat on the back, Symonds replied: "Did I have an objection to it – my objection was that a Test match is no place to be friendly with an opposition player, is my objection.†The last word should go to Hansen, who refers to the Symonds remark: "If that is his view I hope it is not one shared by all international cricketers. It would be a sad day for cricket if it is." Amen. Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 We may not be as successful a team as Australia but there is no doubt that we have played the game in much better spirit. When have you seen a sachin or a Dravid or Kumble do anything dramatic when handed a wrong decision.? When have our players routinely sledged the opposition without provocation? Infact the Indian team has been much ridiculed for being 'nice'. What the Aussies have done deserves ample criticism. You would have a reason to complain if Bhajji was found guilty and still the BCCI and the fans supported him. Has that happened? No' date=' then why do you think the team should be ridiculed?[/quote'] Thats a classic answer a la mould of "defensive" mentality. Indian team has been ridiculed for being nice?? Which series have you been watching? And no I am not interested in Ind-Aus series in 1956. We are talking of 2007-08 series and lets stick to that. In the very last test(Adelaide), long after Sydney, there were situations when the umpire Billy Bowden had to speak with Indian players, notably Harbhajan Singh and Irfan Pathan, when they had an altercation with Ponting. I also remember clearly how Anil Kumble was asked by Billy to watch his players who were banging the ball on the ground. Yes you were saying something about spirit of the game and all. I have no issues with a Sachin, Kumble, Dravid(please read my earlier post carefully). But I have definite issues with the way Indian fans(as also BCCI) has behaved in this whole saga. It is almost as if nothing short of Harbhajan being allowed to go scott-free would have worked. Do you even remember how many posts were here at CF asking - Why has Indian team not cancelled the tour and come back home already? xxx Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 without doubt, india is the hub of world cricket. but it does not follow that we ask for unjust favour everytime things dont go our way. quote one instance when we did. i repeat, do not make random statements. Why is that line even used?? I fail to understand why educated people increasingly use that line, even tacidly. What has India being the hub of world cricket got to do with anything here? why should PM , President or whoever even get involved they realise its sport afterall and those who manage things will eventually get the issue sorted out in a just and fair manner. What game do you watch? Do I need to remind you what happens when India wins any major series/tournament? If its a game what happened when India beat Pakistan in early 2000s? What happened when India won the World Cup etc etc etc. As for head of state getting involved I am personally happy to see Aussies had the galls to take it head on. Props to Aussie Chancellor to say what he did, no such thing for Indian great. xxx Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 this proves that you are a retard. you formed an opinion based on whats said and written on messageboards' date=' where things are posted without any fear of consequences. you arent even worth replying to.[/quote'] 3 post and name calling.. :hysterical: Chalo good day to you too. Link to comment
veer Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Lurker.. where do you live now(just country will be fine) and when was the last time you were in India? and what part of India? Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Lurker.. where do you live now(just country will be fine) and when was the last time you were in India? and what part of India? Live in Phoenix currently Born and raised in Gaya Worked in Mumbai. Travelled all over India(and US). Any particular reason Veer? Link to comment
Mandrake Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thats a classic answer a la mould of "defensive" mentality. Indian team has been ridiculed for being nice?? Which series have you been watching? And no I am not interested in Ind-Aus series in 1956. We are talking of 2007-08 series and lets stick to that. In the very last test(Adelaide), long after Sydney, there were situations when the umpire Billy Bowden had to speak with Indian players, notably Harbhajan Singh and Irfan Pathan, when they had an altercation with Ponting. I also remember clearly how Anil Kumble was asked by Billy to watch his players who were banging the ball on the ground. Yes you were saying something about spirit of the game and all. I have no issues with a Sachin, Kumble, Dravid(please read my earlier post carefully). But I have definite issues with the way Indian fans(as also BCCI) has behaved in this whole saga. It is almost as if nothing short of Harbhajan being allowed to go scott-free would have worked. Do you even remember how many posts were here at CF asking - Why has Indian team not cancelled the tour and come back home already? xxx Lurker, I agree with you that we are not perfect and do make mistakes and in this case you would have a point if Bhajji was ruled to be guilty and the BCCI and fans supported him. The reason many on this board wanted the team to be back was more because of "Hitler" styled ruling by Proctor who was "convinced beyond reasonable doubt". Was that fair?? You seem to have assumed that BCCI's financial clout influenced the final verdict.I can't see how that is so. As for the news about "chartered plane" and all...its been rubbished by the management. Also, India could have put Hogg thru the same process if they wanted to but didn't. Its not that our players have never been fined for dissent or slow over rate....How many times have Aussies been fined for similar offense?? Link to comment
veer Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Live in Phoenix currently Born and raised in Gaya Worked in Mumbai. Travelled all over India(and US). Any particular reason Veer? soo last time kabhi gaye the India? reason I am asking is because you cant be serious if you dont see this huge change in India.. Link to comment
coffee_rules Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thats a classic answer a la mould of "defensive" mentality. Indian team has been ridiculed for being nice?? You yourself have done it a lot of times recently w.r.t Sreesanth. When Ponting was giving out sound bytes before the Indian ODI series, and the seniors didn't respond to it, you were cross with them for 'not giving it back' to Ponting like how Sreesanth was mouthing off to the press. Now that they do, it's all a trashy sense of nationalism. Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 soo last time kabhi gaye the India? reason I am asking is because you cant be serious if you dont see this huge change in India.. Couple of years back I was there, try to go there every year, this time it was two. This huge change needs to be addressed(I have opened a thread in General section if you are interested). What I am looking for is what exactly do we mean by this new found confidence. Is it to say all things Indians are correct, a la cricket? Or is it the way Gen X is inventing/changing the face of India. Drop in that thread if you can. Link to comment
coffee_rules Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Pity he can't write it in Cricinfo or his bosses will roast him. Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Lurker, I agree with you that we are not perfect and do make mistakes and in this case you would have a point if Bhajji was ruled to be guilty and the BCCI and fans supported him. The reason many on this board wanted the team to be back was more because of "Hitler" styled ruling by Proctor who was "convinced beyond reasonable doubt". Was that fair?? Actually many fans wanted Indians to be back as soon as Sydney test was lost, much before Proctor ruling really. But yes after Procter's ruling it became even worse. Personally I had objected to Procter's ruling even then and I was only happy when BCCI appealed against it. However what followed was something I have issues with. You seem to have assumed that BCCI's financial clout influenced the final verdict.I can't see how that is so. As for the news about "chartered plane" and all...its been rubbished by the management. Also, India could have put Hogg thru the same process if they wanted to but didn't. There is no assumption here really. Most media, if not all, have confirmed this was done. Indian media as well as Australian media had confirmed it. This was an act that was done right after Sydney test too when Indian team had chose to stay back in Sydney and not go to Canberra as planned. Its not that our players have never been fined for dissent or slow over rate....How many times have Aussies been fined for similar offense?? I never charged any Indian player with those offences anyway, have I? xxx Link to comment
Sachinism Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 its all coming out aussies were just BSing doing anything to get bhaji convicted Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 That forces us to take a look at the Code of Conduct. While no civilised human being would approve of racial abuse, are other kinds acceptable on the field of play or anywhere else? Why should homophobic slurs be kosher when racist ones are not? Is referring to an opponent's wife as a two-dollar hooker less offensive than calling someone a monkey? That is the issue at bare here. And its not only a cricketing issue, it is in general an issue when it comes to abuses. Very recently right here we had two senior posters trading insults which started because one though he just replied back a sledging, while other thought it was vile and uncalled for. I have my sympathies with DP. When he writes against India he is deemed as a white boot licker when he writes articles like up above I am sure many non-Indians would dismiss it as an article by an Indian. Seems like the more advanced we become, the lesser our faith becomes these days. Link to comment
Lurker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 When Ponting was giving out sound bytes before the Indian ODI series, and the seniors didn't respond to it, you were cross with them for 'not giving it back' to Ponting like how Sreesanth was mouthing off to the press. Now that they do, it's all a trashy sense of nationalism. Yes I did and I also stood by Sreesanth when he was fined. But never defended him as 100% non-guilty party. I knew very well he was at fault but it came with his territory. As for seniors, where have I even mentioned them in a trashy sense of nationalism bhai? My criticism was towards fans and BCCI. I am not sure why you are pulling the seniors here. xxx Link to comment
Sachinism Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "We are very disappointed at what has appeared in the Australian media," Shah said. "Whatever has appeared in the Australian media is bulls**t. I will not agree with this. lolll awesome someone needs to take symonds to the cleaners scum mofo Link to comment
arkay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Pity he can't write it in Cricinfo or his bosses will roast him. I was surprised to see this article was written by Dileep. May be Cricinfo has a curfew not to write anything pro-Indian. Link to comment
suma25 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thats BS. It has little to do with Indian generations and more to do with the trashy sense of nationalism that has developed into Indian cricket fans today. agreed . this whole harbhajan singh fiasco being amtter of national honor as some of the media here put it is all bullshit. best was navjjyot singh siddhu appearing on every single news channel and announcing thats bharat desh ka shaan ka sawaal hain.. and on ndtv show he asked the audience aap mere saath hoon to taali bajaao and the audience clapped.....height was when the show host sonali chander was at her arrogant best. . I am like what the **** how come harbhajan fiasco become a matter of national honour maybe bhajji's honour not nation's honour Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 why is lurker against nationalistic indians? I have a few theories! Link to comment
sreej Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "Whatever has appeared in the Australian media is bulls**t. I will not agree with this. :haha::hysterical::giggle::hysterical::haha::hysterical::haha::giggle: Link to comment
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