zen Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: Gilly always said that his runs are bonus. SO he had the license to play the way he wanted all through his career. Pant has to be given that kind of freedom. He played for a line up that looked like below. I don't see Gilly (or Flower, Stewart, etc.) batting at #7 if he were playing for our current team. And batting at 6, one does not need to change his game or play w/o freedom .... Even at #7, Pant is playing as a WK AR, who is expected to score runs. Or we would be playing Saha, who is a better WK View overall figures [change view] Primary team Australia Start of match date between 1 Jan 1999 and 1 Jan 2009 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 10 of 10 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s RT Ponting 1999-2008 105 178 24 9488 257 61.61 15600 60.82 35 36 9 1077 56 MEK Hussey 2005-2008 33 56 8 2834 182 59.04 5724 49.51 9 13 4 305 17 ML Hayden 2000-2008 95 170 14 8294 380 53.16 13604 60.96 29 29 10 1009 81 SR Waugh 1999-2004 58 85 12 3818 199 52.30 7589 50.30 15 11 6 451 14 DR Martyn 2000-2006 60 97 13 4089 165 48.67 7838 52.16 13 20 6 485 9 MJ Clarke 2004-2008 43 68 8 2884 151 48.06 5501 52.42 9 12 2 307 16 AC Gilchrist 1999-2008 96 137 20 5570 204* 47.60 6796 81.95 17 26 14 677 100 JL Langer 1999-2007 90 157 11 6804 250 46.60 11964 56.87 21 24 7 844 38 SM Katich 2001-2008 34 58 5 2281 157 43.03 4612 49.45 6 12 2 269 4 ME Waugh 1999-2002 43 68 7 2334 121 38.26 4482 52.07 5 14 8 276 9 Edited January 4, 2019 by zen Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, zen said: He played for a line up that looked like below. I don't see Gilly (or Flower, Stewart, etc.) batting at #7 if he were playing for our current team. And batting at 6, one does not need to change his game or play w/o freedom .... Even at #7, Pant is playing as a WK AR, who is expected to score runs. Or we would be playing Saha, who is a better WK View overall figures [change view] Primary team Australia Start of match date between 1 Jan 1999 and 1 Jan 2009 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 10 of 10 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s RT Ponting 1999-2008 105 178 24 9488 257 61.61 15600 60.82 35 36 9 1077 56 MEK Hussey 2005-2008 33 56 8 2834 182 59.04 5724 49.51 9 13 4 305 17 ML Hayden 2000-2008 95 170 14 8294 380 53.16 13604 60.96 29 29 10 1009 81 SR Waugh 1999-2004 58 85 12 3818 199 52.30 7589 50.30 15 11 6 451 14 DR Martyn 2000-2006 60 97 13 4089 165 48.67 7838 52.16 13 20 6 485 9 MJ Clarke 2004-2008 43 68 8 2884 151 48.06 5501 52.42 9 12 2 307 16 AC Gilchrist 1999-2008 96 137 20 5570 204* 47.60 6796 81.95 17 26 14 677 100 JL Langer 1999-2007 90 157 11 6804 250 46.60 11964 56.87 21 24 7 844 38 SM Katich 2001-2008 34 58 5 2281 157 43.03 4612 49.45 6 12 2 269 4 ME Waugh 1999-2002 43 68 7 2334 121 38.26 4482 52.07 5 14 8 276 9 Prior to this series nobody had this idea remotely. After one series we float this idea. There were many convincing reasons given for promoting Ashwin to 6 as well. Jadeja can make the same case averaging 60 in first class and 31 at test level. Pant hasn't yet proved long enough that he is as good as a specialist batsman to play at 6. We merely go by this first year performance. If his keeping has to really improve, treat him as a keeper first. Link to comment
zen Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, vvvslaxman said: Prior to this series nobody had this idea remotely. After one series we float this idea. There were many convincing reasons given for promoting Ashwin to 6 as well. Jadeja can make the same case averaging 60 in first class and 31 at test level. Pant hasn't yet proved long enough that he is as good as a specialist batsman to play at 6. We merely go by this first year performance. If his keeping has to really improve, treat him as a keeper first. Not apples to apples as they are primarily bowlers, who can bat .... Pant is more like a batsman who can keep (relative to specialists such as Saha, who can bat too like Ashwin and Jadeja). As mentioned in OP, now Pant appears to have adjusted to the learning curve of playing test cricket. Moving up to #6 (or even higher in future as a pure batsman) is a natural path of progression for him .... Additionally, we are touring WI and playing SA and BD at home in 2019 .... all of these have created the perfect opportunity for him Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, zen said: Not apples to apples as they are primarily bowlers, who can bat .... Pant is more like a batsman who can keep (relative to specialists such as Saha, who can bat too like Ashwin and Jadeja). As mentioned in OP, now Pant appears to have adjusted to the learning curve of playing test cricket. Moving up to #6 (or even higher in future as a pure batsman) is a natural path of progression for him .... Additionally, we are touring WI and playing SA and BD at home in 2019 .... all of these have created the perfect opportunity for him No he should be treated as a keeper first and treat his runs as bonus. Saha is done. dusted. He is 34. Pant is here to stay as a keeper. We have ruined so many players by focusing on their batting credentials. There is no guarantee Pant will continue producing 100s, 50s. Moving from 7 to 6 a spot belongs to specialist bat is way way too early. Link to comment
zen Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: No he should be treated as a keeper first and treat his runs as bonus. Saha is done. dusted. He is 34. Pant is here to stay as a keeper. We have ruined so many players by focusing on their batting credentials. There is no guarantee Pant will continue producing 100s, 50s. Moving from 7 to 6 a spot belongs to specialist bat is way way too early. As aforementioned he is being played for his ability to bat too vs keep only. Saha has not retired as a WK, he is Ind’s best. When Ind is batting, Pant is not keeping, is he? This is not about guaranteeing 100s or 50s, which some else playing at 6 or 7 cannot too (and has not even measured up to Pant). But Pant being the best option and moving up is a natural path of progression for him Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, zen said: As aforementioned he is being played for his ability to bat too vs keep only. Saha has not retired as a WK, he is Ind’s best. When Ind is batting, Pant is not keeping, is he? This is not about guaranteeing 100s or 50s, which some else playing at 6 or 7 cannot too (and has not even measured up to Pant). But Pant being the best option and moving up is a natural path of progression for him Saha was better. Not THE BEST. Let us keep in perspective he dropped catches too. Pant + Pandya >>>>>> Pant + Saha Link to comment
zen Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: Saha was better. Not THE BEST. Let us keep in perspective he dropped catches too. Pant + Pandya >>>>>> Pant + Saha I like Saha, but I feel that Pant can be more impactful. Which is one of the reasons that I want Pant to be more effective as a batsman. As a WK, he would face challenges and it takes time to improve. Batting comes naturally to him and getting big runs would improve his standing Link to comment
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