Sachin should not open vs the Aussies anymore

[CC1981]

Here is why : Tendu vs the Aussies in last 17 ODIs: 405 runs @ 23.82, strike rate : 66.17, 2 fifties, 0 centuries. This stretches back from 2004- that is 4 years of zero centuries, very poor record vs the Aussies. It is clear that Tendu cannot open successfully against the Aussies anymore. His record shows that he is okay opening against other teams but against Aussies, his opening record has been dismal for FOUR years/15+ matches. Time to drop Tendu down the order vs the Aussies, i think.

[Mr. Wicket]

Question: Who SHOULD open instead of SRT? All very well saying 'SRT should move here' or 'SRT should not open' etc, but is there anyone capable of replacing him as an opener and doing better?

[sm332]

Question: Who SHOULD open instead of SRT? All very well saying 'SRT should move here' or 'SRT should not open' etc, but is there anyone capable of replacing him as an opener and doing better?

Why ask such unquestionable questions Salil? ... anyways Sachin has not done as well against Oz or in Oz period. That is well known, that we dont have another viable ODI opener is a separate problem, come to think of it we dont even have a proper replacement for someone like Viru who shouldnt be anywher enear the ODI team

[siddhu]

Here is why : Tendu vs the Aussies in last 17 ODIs: 405 runs @ 23.82, strike rate : 66.17, 2 fifties, 0 centuries. This stretches back from 2004- that is 4 years of zero centuries, very poor record vs the Aussies. It is clear that Tendu cannot open successfully against the Aussies anymore. His record shows that he is okay opening against other teams but against Aussies, his opening record has been dismal for FOUR years/15+ matches. Time to drop Tendu down the order vs the Aussies, i think.

Respectfully disagree. he is the best batsmen in the world let alone our team and you give most # of overs to your best batsman. Period.

[CC1981]

but is there anyone capable of replacing him as an opener and doing better?

Gambhir has been in excellent form and he is originally an opener, so i'd be open to bumping him up the order. For team India, so long as Gambhir does better than 23 average and 66 strike rate vs the Aussies, he is a better bargain opening than Sachin and honestly, i don't think its a very tall ask for a batsman in prime form.

[Sachinism]

Question: Who SHOULD open instead of SRT? All very well saying 'SRT should move here' or 'SRT should not open' etc, but is there anyone capable of replacing him as an opener and doing better?

Gautum has opened b4 and has done well Sehwag could be brought back into the side for Munaf Uthappa could be given another chance

[Mr. Wicket]

Why ask such unquestionable questions Salil?

Because it's the only logical follow up if you accept the initial argument that Sachin shouldn't open v. the Aussies. He's opening right now because of several factors - he's comfortable in the spot, has a fine record historically there, and just as pertinently, India has nobody else who can step up to open. If you move SRT to the middle order, you're left with the issue of whom to open with. And right now, I'd take Sachin over any of the alternatives to open in his place (Sehwag, Uthappa, Praveen, Gambhir and Karthik).

[CC1981]

Respectfully disagree. he is the best batsmen in the world let alone our team and you give most # of overs to your best batsman. Period.

He WAS best batsman in the world. On career terms, he is the best batsman in the world. But he is NOT the best batsman in the world- in any form of cricket- playing as he plays NOW or over the past several years. If someone is consistently failing against an opposition, it makes more sense to drop him/shuffle him down the order than keep persisting with a failing formula simply because what this person did ten years ago! You don't play cricket in the middle based on reputation, you play it based on performance/skill. Tendu is no longer capable of opening against the best of the best and if 4 years and 15+ ODIs of consistent failure against the best team is not proof enough, nothing is proof enough then.

[Gambit]

But in the last 9 matches his average against them is 36.

[Mr. Wicket]

Gambhir has been in excellent form and he is originally an opener' date=' so i'd be open to bumping him up the order. For team India, so long as Gambhir does better than 23 average and 66 strike rate vs the Aussies, he is a better bargain opening than Sachin and honestly, i don't think its a very tall ask for a batsman in prime form.[/quote'] Right. Gambhir's been struggling opening in ODIs, because he gets sorted out quite often against the new ball. At number 3, he's found some stability and consistency and has been making runs. So you think it's a good idea to take a guy who's doing well at 3 for India - better than anyone else in that position for a long time - and move him to a spot where HE struggles to make runs, to replace someone else who's struggling to make runs only against one team?

[CC1981]

Still very much below par and the fact that Tendu has never done well against the Aussies in Australia (in this format) is yet another reason to accept his limitation and put him down the order.

[Gambit]

And his average in the last 23 games (since 2003 world cup) v Australia is 38.

[sm332]

Because it's the only logical follow up if you accept the initial argument that Sachin shouldn't open v. the Aussies. He's opening right now because of several factors - he's comfortable in the spot, has a fine record historically there, and just as pertinently, India has nobody else who can step up to open. If you move SRT to the middle order, you're left with the issue of whom to open with. And right now, I'd take Sachin over any of the alternatives to open in his place (Sehwag, Uthappa, Praveen, Gambhir and Karthik).

you must know i was being sarcastic:nervous:

[sm332]

We need to find two new ODI openers in general ... one to replace Viru ASAP and the other as a long term replacemnet for Sachin whenever he decides to hang em up

[siddhu]

He WAS best batsman in the world. On career terms, he is the best batsman in the world. But he is NOT the best batsman in the world- in any form of cricket- playing as he plays NOW or over the past several years. If someone is consistently failing against an opposition, it makes more sense to drop him/shuffle him down the order than keep persisting with a failing formula simply because what this person did ten years ago! You don't play cricket in the middle based on reputation, you play it based on performance/skill. Tendu is no longer capable of opening against the best of the best and if 4 years and 15+ ODIs of consistent failure against the best team is not proof enough, nothing is proof enough then.

No.. i still go with IS rather than WAS.... He IS the best batsman in the world. And last 6 months have proved it. PLUS, It would be disastrous to make another top order change. Tendulkar is already without a proper opening partner. He opens with whichever name comes out of hat...

[CC1981]

So you think it's a good idea to take a guy who's doing well at 3 for India - better than anyone else in that position for a long time - and move him to a spot where HE struggles to make runs, to replace someone else who's struggling to make runs only against one team?

Against that ONE team, yes! I am not saying Tendu shouldn't open anymore, i am saying ONLY against Australia, against whom he's a proven failure opening for the past 4 years/17 matches, he shouldn't open. And against ONE team, who on average you will play 1 outta 5-6 matches against, i think it is very much the right thing to do- it won't be frequent enough to upset Gambhir's form at #3 or upset Tendu's overall form but particularly against the Aussies, it is well worth trying. You need a special case scenario to deal with a special team and this is my proposition. Tendu IMO is struggling against Lee first up- he does well when he survives but it is so bloody rare because he gets sorted out by Lee's fast moving balls very early once too often. I think moving Tendu down the order vs the Aussies would see a significant upswing in his production. Obviously i don't expect Gambhir to crack centuries every 3 innings vs the Aussies either- his production opening vs the Aussies will suffer too- but i think their cumulative production vs the Aussies will be better with Gambhir opening and Tendu at #3 than the current setup. And if their cumulative production is higher, then the team profits.

[Mr. Wicket]

you must know i was being sarcastic:nervous:

Yup. Just was explaining the post further for the rubes who'd still keep claiming that Sachin should move down the order. BTW, Gambo, speaking of numbers- check these out. Average of 17, strike rate 67 - that's Gambhir's record opening vs. Aus. Far superior numbers to SRT that justify replacing him at the top, right?

[Mr. Wicket]

OK, so say you do move Tendulkar down the order. You replace him with Gambhir, who averages 17 opening v. Aus, 13.3 opening against South Africa, 18.25 opening against Pakistan... So you weaken the top order even further, lose the consistency at the number 3 slot - and then have Tendulkar in a position where he's not as comfortable batting. Sounds like English Selection 101.

[Gambit]

Yup. Just was explaining the post further for the rubes who'd still keep claiming that Sachin should move down the order. BTW, Gambo, speaking of numbers- check these out. Average of 17, strike rate 67 - that's Gambhir's record opening vs. Aus. Far superior numbers to SRT that justify replacing him at the top, right?

You've got a point. How about Sehwag with an overall average of 22?

[CC1981]

No.. i still go with IS rather than WAS....

Thats just wishful thinking/too much blinkers on. In NO FORM OF CRICKET has Tendulkar given the impression that he is batting like a #1 batsman of his era for MANY years now. Infact, if i were asked to pencil a Test/ODI team NOW or based on the last several years form, i'd definitely omit Tendu in Tests and be hard pressed to justify his spot in the ODIs. The numbers also reflects this. Ponting, CHanderpaul,Yousuf,Hayden,Hussey,Kallis,Peitersen, etc. all are far better batsmen than Tendu in either form of the game NOW and have been for the past several years.