Israel returns child killer Samir Kantar to Lebanon

[MalikBrother]

I think you guys taking it to wrong level. I watched a documentary of how a child became child killer. In Iraq, where American Soldiers raped Child's whole family in front of him...Somehow he managed to survive, but it angered him as what American Soldiers did to his family...He became child killer overnight by taking along with one american soldier head as well....That has freaked Canada and UK as warned USA not to continue to torture muslim children in Iraq, but why would USA show mercy on children?..... You can't just excuse him and blame on him right away...It's like revenge no matter who the opposition is.... Just imagine, raping his whole family like Mother, Sisters in front of him ...? Isn't that worse than killing four years old...Once, you force Child to become Child Killer, then let alone Child Killer, even Killer lose the concept of humanity as well I hear Child Killer or Child Mujaheedin ( he wasn't born killer) has managed to kill at least five American Soldiers ....is considered a HERO in among the muslims in Iraq. I am not sure, but he said something, that he would not stop taking American Soldiers lives unless they take his life....He also said he still can't forget what American Soldiers did to Child Family......That's outcome white people will get if they keep screwing up in children lives like that and i'd be happily to support....Anyone would have done the same as Kid did ! Simple

[THX_1138]

I think you guys taking it to wrong level. I watched a documentary of how a child became child killer. In Iraq, where American Soldiers raped Child's whole family in front of him...Somehow he managed to survive, but it angered him as what American Soldiers did to his family...He became child killer overnight by taking along with one american soldier head as well....That has freaked Canada and UK as warned USA not to continue to torture muslim children in Iraq, but why would USA show mercy on children?..... You can't just excuse him and blame on him right away...It's like revenge no matter who the opposition is.... Just imagine, raping his whole family like Mother, Sisters in front of him ...? Isn't that worse than killing four years old...Once, you force Child to become Child Killer, then let alone Child Killer, even Killer lose the concept of humanity as well I hear Child Killer or Child Mujaheedin ( he wasn't born killer) has managed to kill at least five American Soldiers ....is considered a HERO in among the muslims in Iraq. I am not sure, but he said something, that he would not stop taking American Soldiers lives unless they take his life....He also said he still can't forget what American Soldiers did to Child Family......That's outcome white people will get if they keep screwing up in children lives like that and i'd be happily to support....Anyone would have done the same as Kid did ! Simple

apart from the fact that your post is based on fiction, if the wraith of this so called child mujaheedin is directed towards american soldiers, then atleast, he has the conviction of keeping his engagement within the realms of reason: he is fighting against soldiers and not civilians. israel has committed its share of atrocities against Palestinians, and there is no denying that. the Palestinians deserve their own state, and even a republican president has conceded that point (a little too late one might argue), but we are talking about an individual who was brain washed by his religious and political masters from a very early stage of his life, moulding him into a relentless killing machine that is so disconnected from its own humanity that its moral compass is all over the map, if one exists at all, and this hate and nondiscrimination between civilians and soldiers culminated into this horrendous act that claimed two lives and a third (the third would leave a considerable impact on the mother...). There is no justification, and there can be no reason for this individual to hate an enemy to the extend that has been on show. he will be received as a hero by the locals, but men (and women) such as him are the second most formidable opponents in the path towards a higher state of understanding; the most formidable of course would be those religious and political masters/teachers who convinced him into believing that his actions were sanctioned by an imaginary god, and only glory awaited him in the non existent afterlife.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Sandeep, Why is every citizen responsible and needs to be 'eliminated' for mistakes done by some other citizens and leaders of a country? Since you want it to be exterminated as a whole (including the good and bad people all together)?

ah that classic cop-out........ When a democratically elected govt in fact elected on some given plank indulges into some acts each and every netizen is guilty..A benazir bhutto coming to power on india-hatred ppontification goes on to fund one of the most sick terroist activity in india and kashmir and I am supposed to buy only few are guilty for what benazir did.. sorry am not that naive....... each and every sucker is guilty .. LET is banned but I see their chief addrssing media openly more or less every day in pakistan.. am I supposed to buy only few are guilty.. nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooo wayyyyyyyyyyy

[Guest dada_rocks]

I think you guys taking it to wrong level. I watched a documentary of how a child became child killer. In Iraq, where American Soldiers raped Child's whole family in front of him...Somehow he managed to survive, but it angered him as what American Soldiers did to his family...He became child killer overnight by taking along with one american soldier head as well....That has freaked Canada and UK as warned USA not to continue to torture muslim children in Iraq, but why would USA show mercy on children?..... You can't just excuse him and blame on him right away...It's like revenge no matter who the opposition is.... Just imagine, raping his whole family like Mother, Sisters in front of him ...? Isn't that worse than killing four years old...Once, you force Child to become Child Killer, then let alone Child Killer, even Killer lose the concept of humanity as well I hear Child Killer or Child Mujaheedin ( he wasn't born killer) has managed to kill at least five American Soldiers ....is considered a HERO in among the muslims in Iraq. I am not sure, but he said something, that he would not stop taking American Soldiers lives unless they take his life....He also said he still can't forget what American Soldiers did to Child Family......That's outcome white people will get if they keep screwing up in children lives like that and i'd be happily to support....Anyone would have done the same as Kid did ! Simple

As screwed up as ur theory is how about extending it little further and saying isralies are doing what they are doing because That orginal child-killer Yasir Arafat started blowing scholl full of children...... Yes I am ashamed that my country supported that rascal all along.

[kumble_rocks]

As screwed up as ur theory is how about extending it little further and saying isralies are doing what they are doing because That orginal child-killer Yasir Arafat started blowing scholl full of children...... Yes I am ashamed that my country supported that rascal all along.

If Arafat is bad , so is Menachim Begin or Aerial Sharon . These two gentleman have caused the same number of civilians casualties (including women and children) in my opinion as Arafat . Haven't we been through these discussions before . Why do you always have to wear the intellectually dishonest hat all the time and indulge in one sided criticism . I presume it is simply because the subject happens to be Muslim ! BTW , I do agree with your response to Malikbrother.

[fineleg]

ah that classic cop-out........ When a democratically elected govt in fact elected on some given plank indulges into some acts each and every netizen is guilty..A benazir bhutto coming to power on india-hatred ppontification goes on to fund one of the most sick terroist activity in india and kashmir and I am supposed to buy only few are guilty for what benazir did.. sorry am not that naive....... each and every sucker is guilty .. LET is banned but I see their chief addrssing media openly more or less every day in pakistan.. am I supposed to buy only few are guilty.. nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooo wayyyyyyyyyyy

DR, Even if we hypothetically for a moment accept your invalid argument, lets see (for a moment, we say your argument is ok, now...) If they got "elected", obviously not everyone voted for Bhutto (in this example), what about those who did not vote at all or those who voted for someone else? Are they "guilty" too for electing Bhutto (in this example)?

[fineleg]

BB, You gave "many examples"...but I am talking about "individuals". The person in France who did not get citizenship - she as an individual did nothing wrong. Then she as an individual does not deserve punishment. You punish the people who do the crime or involved in it. Not random individuals just because who are related to them, but haven't done the crime or directly aided it. Do you understand this concept? You do NOT punish individuals because they did NOT express "outrage" - if they expressed outrage good, if they did not, then you can dislike it, but you cannot punish it. Punishment is only meant for people involved in the crime or aiding the crime. Not because they did not "express outrage".

[THX_1138]

Recommended reading: Sam Harris, "End of Faith"

[Ram]

This thread is veering dangerously in the wrong direction. Just so that you guys know, I have been made one of the Mods of the politics forum and I will NOT allow ANY sort of religious propanganda against ANY religion. We are only asking all of you to stick to the rules. Dont know what could be so hard with that.

[Guest dada_rocks]

DR, Even if we hypothetically for a moment accept your invalid argument, lets see (for a moment, we say your argument is ok, now...) If they got "elected", obviously not everyone voted for Bhutto (in this example), what about those who did not vote at all or those who voted for someone else? Are they "guilty" too for electing Bhutto (in this example)?

They voted for someone right what if there was agrrement on hate india campaign acrosss party lines and the party which tipped the rest in hate campaign won the show.. this is precisely what happens on that side of the border........

[Guest dada_rocks]

If Arafat is bad ' date=' so is Menachim Begin or Aerial Sharon . These two gentleman have caused the same number of civilians casualties (including women and children) in my opinion as Arafat . Haven't we been through these discussions before . Why do you always have to wear the intellectually dishonest hat all the time and indulge in one sided criticism . I presume it is simply because the subject happens to be Muslim ! BTW , I do agree with your response to Malikbrother.[/quote'] No he is not I am not falling for mullahic tradition of cornering people and when they snap after the incessant poking start calling those who snapped evil... Not in my book.. Arafat is guilty rest are ust reacting to hithe games he started.. Leave intellecutal stuff for tyhose who know a thing or two..... I have no time for those who measure who got how much criticism lest he might offend someone.> i tell it like it is like it should be.. if someone is offended he she should go look into mirror ..

[kumble_rocks]

No he is not I am not falling for mullahic tradition of cornering people and when they snap after the incessant poking start calling those who snapped evil... Not in my book.. Arafat is guilty rest are ust reacting to hithe games he started.. Leave intellecutal stuf who know a thing or two..... I have no time for those who measure how much who got criyticised lest he might offend someone.> i tell it like it is like it should be.. if someone is offended he she should go look into mirror ..

Cop out answer as usual ! Probably you don't even know who Menachim Begin is !

[Guest dada_rocks]

why? because every citizen voted for that particular candidate? well then in that case, every gujurati is accountable for the 2002 violence and rioting... or that worse yet, since the chief minister was a member of the ruling party, every indian is responsible for the 2002 violence and rioting and must be brought to court... when an election occurs in india or pakistan, out of the total population, only a certain fragment is eligible to vote (those under 18 or those declared mentally misfit or just plain disenfranchised folks cant vote), and out of that fraction and miniscule fraction signs up for voting and fraction of those emmerges on the day of casting the ballot to vote, and only a fraction of that actually votes for the candidate/party that eventually wins. occassionally the party in control of the house might not even be able to secure the popular vote in the nation... yet they become the representatives of the nation. thus it is these representatives that must be held guilty if the nation errrs... not the entire bloody country. do you blame every indian for the rapid inflation or just the inept or overzealous politicians who did not have the farsight to forsee such an inevitability in a rapidly growing economy? i am sort of reinventing the wheel here, because any sensible person knows this, and you assuredly are sensible, though consciously or subconsciously blind to the obvious.

Idiociy has no lilmit on one side are parties falling over each other to win the hate india capmpaign on another side is a godhara post-godhara riot.. Anyone who has some grey cell left would see the lacunae in this comparison

[Guest dada_rocks]

Cop out answer as usual ! Probably you don't even know who Menachim Begin is !

Cop out do u even know what cop out is......... U can parade around ur mealy mouthedeness as some sort of intellectual commentary but in my book you take the first shot then u have no right to accuse the other party for anything.. U can;t expect the reaction to be calibrated.....So everyone else iget clean chit.. baby-killing precedence has been set by the first terrorist of that region and his name is Yasser Arafat.. yes India should be ashamed for supporting such a ba$tard for decades

[kumble_rocks]

Cop out do u even know what cop out is......... U can parade around ur mealy mouthedeness as some sort of intellectual commentary but in my book you take the first shot then u have no right to accuse the other party for anything.. U can;t expect the reaction to be calibrated.....So everyone else iget clean chit.. baby-killing precedence has been set by the first terrorist of that region and his name is Yasser Arafat.. yes India should be ashamed for supporting such a ba for decades

So in other words , monsters like Menachim Begin and Aerial Sharon can kill as many Palestinian women and children and that is perfectly fine with you . Wow !

[Guest dada_rocks]

Yawning

[Guest dada_rocks]

We are going to have rough ride if u are going to be lecturing like that.......... I refuse to subsribe to ur views of what is religious debate and what is not........ Islam is all encompassing even politics comes under it and I will keep commenting on political side of it....

[Ram]

God, why have you guys gotten so twitchy already? :winky: I dont know what you guys' definition of what is religious debate and what is not, but I have gotten one thing clear in my head: There is no way this place is going to used for religious propanganda, irrespective of whether its perceived to be true or not. Good luck, happy debating!

[Ram]

As long as you provide logical explanation with facts to go with it I have no problems. What I have a problem with is your " I THINK this is out of bounds but I wont bother explaining (because you dont have any facts to go with it) logic."

Sorry, the RULES clearly say no religious bashing and thats the way it shall be. We are not going go to by some individual whims and fancies. And I am sure there are many things that you feel within you about many people here... Do you type them all out? Of course you dont, coz personal abuse isnt allowed here. And the fact of the matter is, sometimes, some guys do stuff thats worth abusing. We still follow the rules dont we? And I think I am intellegent enough to discern between whats religious discussion and religion bashing. The Former is O.K, latter is definitely Taboo. Enough of speeches, I am getting bored myself! :wink_smile:

[CC1981]

Marirs, my suggestion would be simply to delete part of the post/edit it if it offends thy perception. Btw, i agree with THX's sentiments on this post. Anyways, here are the facts: Israel-Palestine terrorism (BOTH between Jews and muslims) didn't begin with Arafat. It began after WWI, the MOMENT Trans-jordan passed from Turkish control to British control. If you study the model of governance employed by the Ottoman Turkish Empire, it is consistent in one thing: The royal family weilds absolute power(particularly the emperor) and the Royal family(and much of nobility) was flagrantly non-Islamic, hell, bordering on hedonistic and not much different from ancient Romans in hedonism. There is another parallel consistency with the Ottoman Turks (one that it inherited from its Mongol confederacy past): they left you to your own devices as long as you paid taxes,sent soldiers, hosted the occasional state function and didn't create trouble. Trans-jordan and much of Arabia under Turkish control was remarkably stable not because they were all Muslims of the same faction (as history will tell us, Shias and Sunnis have zero compunctions from time immemorial in slaughtering each other) but because the Ottomans whacked anyone who created a rebellion/riot. To draw a hypothetical Analogy, if India were the Ottomans, after Godhra (or kashmiri lafraa), the Army would move in, declare marshall law indefinitely and kill anyone and everyone who violates it to the letter. Arabs were the majority in trans-jordan with a small jewish population (who were actually free to practice their religion) but neither side DARED to try and kill or evict each other, simply coz it'd mean having to deal with the might of the Ottoman army (which till WWI ended, was one of the great powers of Europe). Trouble began when Britain took over Transjordan after WWI. The Muslims felt insecure after having lost the 'safety blanket/bragging rights' of protection of an empire that is, atleast nominally, Islamic. The Jews felt emboldened by the sudden access to their fellow Jews in the Anglo world and especiall, their financing.(some of whom were doing quite well- eg: Rockafeller). It is futile to try and figure out who acted first,what we know is that from the 1920s onwards, jews and arabs started organising in ultra-religious militias and terrorising each other, as Britain essentially looked on ( used to the ruthless supression of sectarianism of the Turks for centuries, both sides, clearly, felt like pushing the limit) and the escalation basically reached a boiling point when WWII ended. It is utterly futile to look at which community started the insurgency first- there are countless examples and counter-examples from both sides which show a particular insurgent incedent before from the other side. On moving to Begin and Arafat example as mentioned earlier, What is fact, is that just like Arafat, Menachim begin was a bona-fide terrorist. He blew up a hotel full of women,children and diplomats for fux sake and later bragged about it ! That staunchly, utterly and categorically puts him in the same bracket as Arafat. And both moved on to less militaristic and more political avenues of force projection (Arafat,less so due to a less established beurocracy in palestine versus the governance apparatus of Israel). It is a FACT that Begin began his terroristic activities before Arafat. Begin enrolled with the Jewish terrorist organisation (their LeT/Al-Qaida,etc.) IRGUN in 1942/43. Arafat DID NOT get involved in active politics before he enrolled in university and his father died..roughly around 1948-1950 period. However, issue of who started first between the two is utterly useless, considering that the sectarian violence and terrorism between both sides predates the participation of either names. Anyone who actually differentiates between the two, is either ignorant of the full facts or biassed in one of various possible ways. Anyways, with the Israel-Palestine issue, my position is simple. I am thoroughly disgusted by both sides. Both with Israel and their racism,slow-death and utter despotism towards the palestinian populace and towards Palestinians for their depraved ways of conduct ( wtf is wrong with these retards- where the fook is your gandhi ? In our PC-world, all you'd need is a few Gandhis, lots of cameras and a lot of handwringing). But if push comes to shove and i am forced to pick a side, i would' with gnashing teeth , pick Israel's side. The reasoning for that is simple:Ii have no problems admitting that Palestinians since conception of Israel have lived in a state of semi-slavery and brutal reprisals ( wtf kind of justice is to blow up someone's house if they commit an act of terrorism ? imagine this- you are living in a house with half your family, one of your bros goes and blows up something and next thign you know, all of you are homeless ? eh ? sure, greattttt idea of solving the problem. The guy who's not scared of blowing himself to bits is obviously gonna care a lot about his homeless momma!). But having said that and having lived in that region in the past, i can assure that if the west stopped backing Israel (and hell, if India stopped all strategic partnerships with Israel), Israel will be one big bloodbath one day with the arab side simply slaughtering every israeli.