kumble_rocks Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 oke oke sorry dude there is no need to sulk I went over-board there but got pi$ over your bemausam ki bansuri.. thread close everybody welcomes this move of exonasion except fee elite whihc doesn't include THX.. :winky: no more fun for MM:--D I hope you can convince the 'elitists' to see the the positive side .. with the ever increasing quota system , at least general merit students have a better chance now to get in IIT!:winky:
fineleg Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I dont like the addition of 8 new IITs...too many and it will certainly not be able to maintain the quality, IMO.
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Talking of quality.. well why do u need quality for doing getchar putchar anyway.. Let us make it officially the IT pro development centre which it basically has turned out to be.... How many pursue higher education how many go for research.. Not many I would say bulk of us join any company who can throw biggest mullah.. Earlier it used to be HLL these days I hear MicroSoft has replaced HLL.
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 I hope you can convince the 'elitists' to see the the positive side .. with the ever increasing quota system ' date=' at least general merit students have a better chance now to get in IIT!:winky:[/quote'] Majority of my elite friends used to come from south and I guess they would understand your cajoling better.... Language-gap you see. english as awlays remains very dry emotionless mode of communication between two indians..
Ram Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 India is soon going to become the Engineering power-house of the world. In fact, even as we speak, India produces more graduates/year, than what the whole of European Union manages to do in the same time. Intellectual asset is the most priced asset. America is what it is today, because it manages to attaract the best minds in the world to come and work there. So, American companies are able to constantly innovate and stay ahead of others. Soon, the mantle is going to be passed to us though! In a recent interview, Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase, said that soon, his company would have to start competing with companies from India and China. And its the graduates from the very same IITs that we are talking about, who will power those companies for us!
Lurker Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Talking of quality.. well why do u need quality for doing getchar putchar anyway.. Let us make it officially the IT pro development centre which it basically has turned out to be.... How many pursue higher education how many go for research.. Not many I would say bulk of us join any company who can throw biggest mullah.. Earlier it used to be HLL these days I hear MicroSoft has replaced HLL. Indeed. And this is what I am apprehensive about. It is almost that India's economy is dependent on one field only and it greatly scares me. Most of the fast developing states(and cities) owe it to IT. Most of the rising cost of living can be owed to IT. Most of the good old Instiutions of India are churning people for one field IT. It is all well and good till things go along but can you even begin to imagine what would happen if this field tanked??? If I had to use an analogy I would use the example of Civil Engineering. It was a booming field in 60s and 70s and most of the smart people, specially in Bihar, would become Civil Engg. By the time I started doing Engg(mid to late 90s) Civil Engg was at the absolute bottom of the ladder. Out of 60 or so students one was lucky to have 5 placement straight out of college. Most of the others prepared fro IAS, IES, MBA etc. Now multiply that number(60) with 2 or 3 times that number! Thats how many Engg are entering IT today and imagine what would happen if this field tanked..or in the least slowed in growth. Do we have a fall back plan? xxx
Lurker Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 In a recent interview' date= Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase, said that soon, his company would have to start competing with companies from India and China. And its the graduates from the very same IITs that we are talking about, who will power those companies for us! Let me be the first to burst that bubble Sriram - Not gonna happen. The reason why that wont happen is because a TCS will take another decade(atleast) to compete with Microsoft, maybe 2-3 decades. And I dont see how an ICICI will compete with JP Morgan for any less than that number. The reason, to me, is rather simple. Indian companies are making this humongous amount of money and spending absolutely nothing to train, and improve, their resources. As a result bulk of revenue still comes from middle to low level projects. There would be exceptions here and there but by and large this is true. And even in cases that are exceptions it is the sheer brilliance of a few individuals rather than the company's credit anyway. Recent example would probably suffice. I had this negotiation going on with a Movie Studio based out of LA. The project was for India's number 1 IT company and they didnt have any candidate for this position and so they brought me in. I am sat discussing this project with the Account Manager, a person who is in charge of 100 or so folks onsite and twice that number offshore. And he is irritated, annoyed, frustrated because he does not have one single candidate who has even half the expertise needed. And this in one of the hot IT area. Upon further questioning I realize that the number 1 IT company in India does not have so much as some licenses of the software so that it can be installed in a Mumbai, Bangalore office and train the people. Forget being trained by actual vendors. Most of the candidates have to learn on the job. And I fail to see how a company who doesnt invest in its people can challenge a system where training your resources is very much part of investment.
Ram Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Lurks, things are changing. The future we are predicting wont happen in 4,5 even 10 years. But soon, given the VAST diaspora of Indians who have gone abroad to make a living and the constantly increasing number Indian employees of s/w companies who go offshore to work, things are bound to change. Slowly, but surely, critical knowledge and domain expertise is being garnered by 100s of thousands of Indians. At some point or the other, it has to pay rich dividends.
Guest dada_rocks Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Indeed. And this is what I am apprehensive about. It is almost that India's economy is dependent on one field only and it greatly scares me. Most of the fast developing states(and cities) owe it to IT. Most of the rising cost of living can be owed to IT. Most of the good old Instiutions of India are churning people for one field IT. It is all well and good till things go along but can you even begin to imagine what would happen if this field tanked??? If I had to use an analogy I would use the example of Civil Engineering. It was a booming field in 60s and 70s and most of the smart people, specially in Bihar, would become Civil Engg. By the time I started doing Engg(mid to late 90s) Civil Engg was at the absolute bottom of the ladder. Out of 60 or so students one was lucky to have 5 placement straight out of college. Most of the others prepared fro IAS, IES, MBA etc. Now multiply that number(60) with 2 or 3 times that number! Thats how many Engg are entering IT today and imagine what would happen if this field tanked..or in the least slowed in growth. Do we have a fall back plan? xxx Luurker I have faith in indian intelligensia's pragmatic choice of career.... it won;t take them much in changing tunes and declaring once again civil engg is my dream discipline.. Was watching a documentary which mentipned India is facing major scarcity of civil engineers. Now recall just three decades ago we had plenty of civil engineers.. Let the new engg colleges come up economics of employment will make sure we get what we need.... Civil engg graduates went oout of fashino because after nitial spurt for decaded infrastrcture development came to stand-still there not many jobs for civil engg graduates.. .. All thsi changed after NDA govt's flagship Golden Quadrilateral project today whereevr you go u will get to see war-scale construction work happening... ( in 50 years preceding NDA we averaged 10 kms of road per month since then it has gone to 10 kms per day).. Suddenly civil engg graduates demand has gone up and days are not far when those civil engineers who after going through Summer's puzzle book and cursory reading of Kenningham Richie used to join Infosys would like to stay in their own field of specialization.........
Lurker Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Lurks' date=' things are changing. The future we are predicting wont happen in 4,5 even 10 years. But soon, given the VAST diaspora of Indians who have gone abroad to make a living and the constantly increasing number Indian employees of s/w companies who go offshore to work, things are bound to change. Slowly, but surely, critical knowledge and domain expertise is being garnered by 100s of thousands of Indians. At some point or the other, it has to pay rich dividends.[/quote'] I am not so confident of that Sriram. To take on world level organization, like JP Morgan, one will either have to see mass-migration of NRI brains to India(which wont happen) or will invest in Indian workforce with heavy spending on training(which isnt happening). At this time the bulk work done by Indian companies is middle to low level and unless these organizations invest heavily in training I just dont see them take the big projects.
Lurker Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Luurker I have faith in indian intelligensia's pragmatic choice of career.... it won;t take them much in changing tunes and declaring once again civil engg is my dream discipline.. Was watching a documentary which mentipned India is facing major scarcity of civil engineers. Now recall just three decades ago we had plenty of civil engineers.. Chalo we will have to wait and watch this one then. I still think that we are putting far too many eggs in the IT basket but there is no way we can see if it was a success/failure unless we see it happen. For now its all good so all's well that ends well I suppose.
fineleg Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I agree with Lurker on him telling MM that the indian companies are not investing in their employees. Well, the somewhat advantageous fact for Indian companies is that even American companies have become very short sighted and the investment in employees is declining. But, on the whole, good investment in making great employees, great leaders and therefore great companies is declining world over. Lurker - BTW what special field was that for which this leading #1 company could not even find one single well qualified candidate? Just curious.
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