Here some real numbers about comparative scenario of terror: psec brothers please notice

[Guest dada_rocks]

Modus operandi have changed or may be due to 9/11 pressure on pakistan has gone up and their support with alacrity to the separatist element and terrorist has waned........Terrorist are occupied may be putting one across against USA .. There could be plethora of theories to that effect.. but there is no denying the fact ( our intelligence bureaue agrees here) that rest of India has seen three-fold rise in teoorism and no they are not the foot soldiers who were plying in kashmir they are home-grwon new breed of our very own Indian brothers operating .. Somehow your picturaisation that actually Kashmiri terorrists have moved elsewhere doesn;t gell wiht fact on the ground.. Fact is UPA has seen three fold rise in home-grown terror incidents despite the fact that these individuals become more sore when NDa is in place as opposed to when UPA is in place. This fact further highlights the colelctive failure of UPA apparatus and that's wher presence and absence of POTA theory comes.... U are falsely accusing the author to be dishonest he is right on the money..

[The Outsider]

Oh...and when you are adding the casualty numbers don't forget to add the 2000-3000 who died in Gujarat under the NDA rule. Why should the government be exonerated from not able to contain riots in terms of the security situation? Just running some rough numbers looks like 8000+ people were victims of violence under NDA.

[CC1981]

U are falsely accusing the author to be dishonest he is right on the money..

The author is dishonest because he is potraying it as '3 fold rise in terrorism under UPA' when UPA angle has to be established- it is nothing more than political slanderfest, which is dime a dozen all over India. Such poor journalism is not in vogue in rest of the civilized world and nowhere do you see spanish media or english media going 'under xyz govt 3x 4x 5x rise in terrorism'- NOT EVEN when IRA was blowing up England all over the place. Like me and Swetabh have catogircally demonstrated, you and your author are both intellectually dishonest because they are laying blame along politically motivated lines, when it is completely unjustified.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Oh...and when you are adding the casualty numbers don't forget to add the 2000-3000 who died in Gujarat under the NDA rule. Why should the government be exonerated from not able to contain riots in terms of the security situation? Just running some rough numbers looks like 8000+ people were victims of violence under NDA.

Make up your mind are we going for victims of violence then may be we will have to rope in all routine murder caes too.. Why so defensive mater.. You are changing the gopalpost in face of irrefutable data over terrorist blast.. I would say why not add 1984 episode MOPLA episode all riot episode so far I am game for even that.. 99% of riots congress has presided over so you won't find the reesult to your liking even there.. btw official no. is 750 muslim 350 hindu

[The Outsider]

but there is no denying the fact ( our intelligence bureaue agrees here) that rest of India has seen three-fold rise in teoorism and no they are not the foot soldiers who were plying in kashmir they are home-grwon new breed of our very own Indian brothers operating ..

I'll accept that as soon as you accept that due to UPA government terrorism has come down 5 times in Kashmir. Both are equally illogical statements.

[Ram]

This thread is the BEST example of how right wingers will play around with things as sensitive as casualty figures to drive home their agenda. I didnt think much of Swapan Dasgupta before. Now, I have lost total respect for him. Quoting casualty figure excluding Kashmir is like 'Overrall crime has fallen, if we are to exclude robbery, rape and assault'. The right-wingers stand exposed, ONCE again. Besides, whats with casualty figures anyway? Isnt it all based on pure circumstance? A Bomb could go off in a bus-stand, but the casualty figures will vary depending on whether there are people standing near it. So, trivializing this to a numbers of game of the dead people, is an insult to those dead souls.

[Ram]

Exposed ehh MM .... could you care to highlight if any of your comrades care to go the root of the issue as to what happens when the Other minorites are made to go back assuming now that your comrades have declared Kashmir as a peacefull region ( relatively ) ? Keep in mind the recent violence at merely allocating land to temples ..... You could have ZERO casualties tomorrow but ... try sending back the old residents of Kashmir and then see what happens.

Hehe.. This thread isnt about 'what happens when' BB... Its about pure numbers. The irony is, none of us so called 'comrades' have actually said 'UPA is better than NDA' or vice-versa. But, its you guys who have tried to falsely portray it in one way or the other. BTW, why are talking about minorities going back to Kashmir? Thats totally irrelevant to the current discussion.

[Ram]

And as Shwetabh has accurately pointe out, the Indian security apparatus is so ineffective, corrupt and stuck in inertia that no single govt is capable of having a drastic effect, even if they decide to. You can enact all the anti-terrorism laws you want, but it will make little difference on the ground.

[Guest dada_rocks]

This thread is the BEST example of how right wingers will play around with things as sensitive as casualty figures to drive home their agenda. I didnt think much of Swapan Dasgupta before. Now, I have lost total respect for him. Quoting casualty figure excluding Kashmir is like 'Overrall crime has fallen, if we are to exclude robbery, rape and assault'. The right-wingers stand exposed, ONCE again. Besides, whats with casualty figures anyway? Isnt it all based on pure circumstance? A Bomb could go off in a bus-stand, but the casualty figures will vary depending on whether there are people standing near it. So, trivializing this to a numbers of game of the dead people, is an insult to those dead souls.

(1) Army in place in kashmir war zone.. Army in place in north east war zone (2) Need of army not required in rest of india obviously not war zone (3) IB?CBI accepts rest of the india terrorism is driven by our own home grown pece-loving brothers (4) kashmir mostly has foreing mercenaries as its foot soldier with connivance from locals but murderers are foreing nationals there To any discerning mind these two are different case.. I am willing to include kashmir naxalism everythign but need an assurance that u guys will concede .. because Shwetabh has laready added riot figures.. Well he wud like just one riot to be considerd though.. Do you see the divisive tactics of yours to save the sorry theory in face of irefutable data that UPA has seen through three fold rise in two less years in comparison to NDA.... At the very least will you accept UPA has exported terrorism from kashmir to the rest of india........ I am willing to provide all the data but please ut the geographical area or nature of crime you want to be included along with serial bomb blast cases.. Ican see this is pathetic attempt but I still indulge... provided you stop changing the goalpost ..

[Guest dada_rocks]

And as Shwetabh has accurately pointe out' date=' the Indian security apparatus is so ineffective, corrupt and stuck in inertia that no single govt is capable of having a drastic effect, even if they decide to. [b']You can enact all the anti-terrorism laws you want, but it will make little difference on the ground.

Some optimism you have there in face of irrefutable data to the contrary......... Fact: POTA regime had much lesser incidents despite terrorist trying their best at war footing due to power in BJP hands.. You can deny all you want.. How the hell do you know it won't work.. To me tit's simple a mofo is caught based on suspicion well they are not stupid enough to walk around with smking gun.. Instead of police having luxury to question them throughly absence of POTA makes sure next day some Teesta gets bail for this mofo........ Huge difference in my view and no. of terror incidents prove that.......... Yes it's number of terror incidents whihc matter most more important than the fact that r how lucky these ba$tards get in killing people thoguh their bombs........ They might place bombat some public place and at the time of it going off people might not be present there , that doesn;t mean it becomes a success for security apparatus

[Ram]

small matter of them being rightfull residents of that place ? No ? But yeah pretty ingenious to conveniently take them out of the equation and declare that there is peace and harmony over there. Who are we trying to fool here ?

Read what I have written. I didnt say it was a trivial issue, I said its irrelevant to the current discussion. what will happen in the KPs return back to Kashmir is totally unrelated to what we are discussing here.

[Guest dada_rocks]

In all this twisted frenzied defence one thing got overlooked.. Manmohan Singh accusing Aadavin for sleeping on job.... so Mr Dalal ManMohan Singh what have you been doing appraerntly your scale of failure is much much much worse

[Guest dada_rocks]

Read what I have written. I didnt say it was a trivial issue, I said its irrelevant to the current discussion. what will happen in the KPs return back to Kashmir is totally unrelated to what we are discussing here.

Dude that's related if you rope in Kashmir if you rope in all of it...........:--DI know you guys can;t defend the pathetic 4:14 ratio of serial bomb blast a dn terro in rest of india and hence this absurd insistance on add this add tis part of kashmir not that part add naxalims add rthis riot leave others.. take one hard look and ask yourself ........has UPA at least exported terror from kashmir ( if u insist it's kashmiri terrorists who moved to rest of india) or fanend new wave of terrorism in rest of india through local mofos ..... If you are honest to yourself you will find the answer.....

[Guest dada_rocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents%2C_1998 Anyway here is the webpage you can glean yourself including kashmir and naxalism all and again find how UPA ( wihtut POTA) record is so abysmal in comparison to NDA ( with POTA).. Thought will glean the information but it seems exercise will be futile you guys will suddenly invent let us see it in persepctive by including of domestic violence burgalry etc .. For honest pones answer is that in URL......UPA's performance still suck including everything

[The Outsider]

DR : Let's keep it really simple and basic. All deaths attributable to terrorism all over India including Kashmir, Naxalites, North East, everything. I won't count Gujarat riots. I have already listed around 5000+ fatalities from Kashmir alone from the NDA reign. Let me know when your numbers cross that (with references to back up the numbers like I provided) and then I'll start adding on North-East and Naxalites to my tally. Fair? PS : It's funny how these characters who lambast the UPA govt. for everything have avoided the question of parliament attack and Kandahar like plague.

[Guest dada_rocks]

DR : Let's keep it really simple and basic. All deaths attributable to terrorism all over India including Kashmir, Naxalites, North East, everything. I won't count Gujarat riots. I have already listed around 5000+ fatalities from Kashmir alone from the NDA reign. Let me know when your numbers cross that (with references to back up the numbers like I provided) and then I'll start adding on North-East and Naxalites to my tally. Fair? PS : It's funny how these characters who lambast the UPA govt. for everything have avoided the question of parliament attack and Kandahar like plague.

I have provided you the url where they have list of it all.. do you math guys just be honest.. One thing I have already proven (1) 3-4 times rise in terror in rest of india which was comparatively quiet.. Rest you can find there.. Nobody has ignored Kandhar or parliament bombing that's in my list.. Even for Kandhar I accuse psec govt of V P Singh for setting the precdence of releasing Rubia Saeed govt had no option but to save those 230 stuck.I am sure had govt not accepted the demand u have been trumpeting those 250 souls who most probably wud have bene killed. I have done what is needed ..for semantics driven hiding I have no answer...... Sala coming from meeting and in thick of discussion suddenly this issue shines in my mind.. overdose i guess

[The Outsider]

I have provided you the url where they have list of it all.. do you math guys just be honest..

That url does not list all the numbers. According to that URL each year is giving a total of only 50-60 casualties in India on average. Do you want me to buy that?

Nobody has ignored Kandhar or parliament bombing that's in my list.. Even for Kandhar I accuse psec govt of V P Singh for setting the precdence of releasing Rubia Saeed govt had no option but to save those 230 stuck.I am sure had govt not accepted the demand u have been trumpeting those 250 souls who most probably wud have bene killed.

Yes, the Rubiya Saeed precedent made the govt. swap terrorists for passengers once the flight landed in Afghanistan. What happened when the plane was sitting in Amritsar on Indian soil? It was one of the biggest security **** ups to let a hijacked plane which is there in your country on the ground take off again to Lahore. But I don't accept you to believe that just because your beloved NDA was in power.

[kumble_rocks]

I think it is futile and waste of time to debate somebody like DR ... This guy has got to have one of the most screwed up jaundiced mind in ICF , it's like debating a Mullah .. He believes what he wants to believe ... facts be damned ..