England & India- Worrying Parallels

[King]

But you didn't say Warne and McGrath. You said Singh and Sharma. BIG difference.

I know where you obviously want this thread to head. I'm not going to be a party to it. It's a common knowledge Pakistanis fume at the very mention of an Indian fast bowler and you aren't any different. I'll save you some effort reading the entire thread (nothing other than Sharma, RP or Zaheer catches your eyes anyways). The following was mentioned in the Flintoff reference : "We need the Flintoffs, the Warnes, the McGraths. Sadly, they are not forthcoming."

[chanakya]

Dhondy' date=' [b']Zaheer, RP or even Ishant Sharma is way better than Freedi in the bowling department. Get over your obsession with Pom players already :winky: You quote one or two good performance of Freedi in about few years and over hype him. What is with livng in England, does it make you guys half blind? Must be the water :D

Nahhh. Freddie is an awesome fast bowler.

[kablooee87]

I know where you obviously want this thread to head. I'm not going to be a party to it. It's a common knowledge Pakistanis fume at the very mention of an Indian fast bowler and you aren't any different. I'll save you some effort reading the entire thread (nothing other than Sharma, RP or Zaheer catches your eyes anyways). The following was mentioned in the Flintoff reference : "We need the Flintoffs, the Warnes, the McGraths. Sadly, they are not forthcoming."

Sheesh, I can't stand this bs. Is it really that hard to believe that I'm posting here to express genuine views rather than with some ulterior motive? When I come to ICF to talk cricket, it's NOT to talk about Pakistan cricket, because there's very little actual discussion about Pakistan cricket here. Pakistan is currently idle, there are 2 test match series going on involving other teams. I don't really know what else to tell you.

[kablooee87]

As for the topic itself, you've taken Dhondy's quote out of context. Have a look at the whole thing again. "Indians are skilled players, but lack determination and passion, which separate the greats from the very good. You see one or two good performances from our bowlers, and we praise them to high heaven. The next series, they revert to rubbish. I mean, just look at the last Test match. We need the Flintoffs, the Warnes, the McGraths. Sadly, they are not forthcoming." See the difference?

[King]

Sheesh, I can't stand this bs. Is it really that hard to believe that I'm posting here to express genuine views rather than with some ulterior motive? When I come to ICF to talk cricket, it's NOT to talk about Pakistan cricket, because there's very little actual discussion about Pakistan cricket here. Pakistan is currently idle, there are 2 test match series going on involving other teams. I don't really know what else to tell you.

Majority of them are trolls we have seen from Pakistan here, we are not to be blamed for that.

[Bumper]

Ravi, I know what you mean. I have followed kablooe. He is much like MP, a good poster and a gentleman. He is not the manali types.

[observer1]

Doc Dhondy aimed at his feet with unerring accuracy. Again! A couple more posts like this, and an amputation wont be too far off.

[King]

So much for Freddi and Bhajji :winky: I'm sure Dhondy will be very happy with the result and won't bother a bit he was proved wrong. I think it's time you lay off Bhajji Dhondy. Oh BTW Ishant picked up 3 wickets in Sri Lanka and all of them top order batsman meanwhile Freddi failed to pick enough in the 2nd inning to win the game for England. I have to admit Freddi bowled top class even in the 2nd inning.

[Dhondy]

Doc Dhondy aimed at his feet with unerring accuracy. Again! A couple more posts like this, and an amputation wont be too far off.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? All the parallels drawn above remain perfectly valid. Because they were written before events that followed. Some of them remain valid despite them.

[observer1]

Hindsight is often confused with restraint, and sometimes with common sense! Your article did make compelling reading (as it usually does), but you were getting a bit carried away, methinks. IMO, it is better to have hindsight than be on a wheelchair

[Dhondy]

Hindsight is often confused with restraint, and sometimes with common sense! Your article did make compelling reading (as it usually does), but you were getting a bit carried away, methinks. IMO, it is better to have hindsight than be on a wheelchair

Not getting carried away at all. An underperforming captain who plays favourites, a maverick batsman who performs when all others fail, and incredibly short sighted selections- which of these similarities do you disagree with? So the outcomes of the two matches have been different. You want to sweep all the shortcomings, and the valid points made thereabout, under the carpet on the back of that?

[The Outsider]

Not getting carried away at all. An underperforming captain who plays favourites, a maverick batsman who performs when all others fail, and incredibly short sighted selections- which of these similarities do you disagree with? So the outcomes of the two matches have been different. You want to sweep all the shortcomings, and the valid points made thereabout, under the carpet on the back of that?

The disagreement is shining through in the score lines, Dhondy, we are 1-1 going into the final test with perhaps just a toss of the coin separating us from a series win in the most hostile conditions imaginable and England go into the final test for dead rubber consolation with a captain who has quit.

[Dhondy]

The disagreement is shining through in the score lines' date=' Dhondy, we are 1-1 going into the final test with perhaps just a toss of the coin separating us from a series win in the most hostile conditions imaginable and England go into the final test for dead rubber consolation with a captain who has quit.[/quote'] Not at all. Using the result to nullify some arguments when the two were unrelated is not good debate.

[The Outsider]

Not at all. Using the result to nullify some arguments when the two were unrelated is not good debate.

Results are a parameter to judge the performance of a team. And lo behold it's the bottom line in today's ultra competitive world. The fact remains that the Indian unit has put up a result which even Australia will not be able to in such conditions and it's time they get their appreciation rather than brickbats.

[kablooee87]

The disagreement is shining through in the score lines' date=' Dhondy, we are 1-1 going into the final test with perhaps just a toss of the coin separating us from a series win[b'] in the most hostile conditions imaginable and England go into the final test for dead rubber consolation with a captain who has quit.

Let's not get carried away here.

[The Outsider]

Let's not get carried away here.

I would like to see any middle order score 100+ runs at the kind of pitch we had at Galle, never mind the entire SL team barely managed 100.

[Kumar]

I would like to see any middle order score 100+ runs at the kind of pitch we had at Galle' date=' never mind the entire SL team barely managed 100.[/quote'] Im sure symonds, hussey, clarke and ponting could.

[umpire]

>Im sure symonds, hussey, clarke and ponting could. not with referral system in place.

[funkieidol]

I know Kumble's had a bad year as a bowler but I would like to point at one statistic that has always interested me. On average he takes 30.48% of the wickets that fall in an innings. That means that if twenty wickets fall in an innings he'll take 6 wickets. Harbhajan has a rate of 25% (5 out of 20 wickets) Zaheer Khan 20 (4 out of 20) Ishant Sharma 14% (3 of 20) Even Kapil Dev 23% Slightly lower than Harbhajan and 4-5 out of 20. Keeping in mind that it is rare for 20 wickets to fall in an innings and that run outs/hitwickets mean that 10 wickets aren't always available..Kumble's achieved something quite good. Malcolm Marshall, Glenn McGrath, Alan Donald and even Heath Streak who played with a bunch of incompetents all hover around the 25% mark. Waqar Younis is close with 29.3% and Sydney Barnes took almost 40%...But really I think that's an interesting measure of a bowlers performance...to see how vital he is in the team.

[Guest BossBhai]

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