Ooops, who will we curse now?

[Ram]

As I've already commented opening is the easiest job to do on these tracks and the latest cricinfo numbers back up my statement. And I completely stand by my statement that the Dravid-Tendulkar partnership put the match beyond SL's reach. Yes they got excellent support from the openers and Sehwag played an innings which even the Gods will cherish till calamity befalls all of us' date=' but is that a reason to lambast[b'] a wonderful performance by the middle order? I don't think so specially on a pitch so full of tricks once the spinners were on.

Thats pushing it a bit too much, IMO. Irrespective of what cricinfo suggests, the blunt truth staring at our face is that our middle order has been a collective failure so far in this series.

[The Outsider]

You guys can believe what you want, but give me a holler the next time you see a middle order put up 100+ runs on these kind of tracks against Murali and Mendis.

[Ram]

You guys can believe what you want' date=' but give me a holler the next time you see a middle order put up 100+ runs on these kind of tracks against Murali and Mendis.[/quote'] So, what are you trying to say? The pitch magically transforms when the first wicket falls? Its the timid approach of the MO thats been their bug-bear so far, not the perceived demons in the pitch.

[The Outsider]

That argument would have sounded credible if the openers had not scored more runs even against the spinners in the second innings than our two greats.

They have the advantage of getting their eyes in and settling down against some rubbish "pace" bowling.

[Desi Cartman]

They have the advantage of getting their eyes in and settling down against some rubbish "pace" bowling.

BTW Shwetabh SRT got out twice to the same rubbish pace bowling.

[The Outsider]

So, what are you trying to say? The pitch magically transforms when the first wicket falls? Its the timid approach of the MO thats been their bug-bear so far, not the perceived demons in the pitch.

What I am trying to say is that our middle order does not deserve a leave without pay based on this kind of series where it's impossible to play once the ball is 20 overs old on a day 3-4+ track.

[Chandan]

I concur with what Shwetabh has said. A lot of you who are saying that the middle order didn't perform or failed collectively have not seen the match. When Murali and Mendis were bowling, it was doing all sorts of tricks --sometimes rearing like a snake, turning viciously and sometimes keeping extremely low. It looked as if each delivery was a big battle. And then the critics also have to take into account the debut of a mystery opener who bamboozled every batsman in the first test and most of the batsmen in the first inning of this match too. With these two spinners on, pressure was tremendous on the batsmen as bowling was not only tight but dangerous too. Those who have seen the matches will agree with me.

[Dhondy]

What I am trying to say is that our middle order does not deserve a leave without pay based on this kind of series where it's impossible to play once the ball is 20 overs old on a day 3-4+ track.

Then how did Jayawardane score 86?

[The Outsider]

BTW Shwetabh SRT got out twice to the same rubbish pace bowling.

And is that supposed to be an indictment. Even the best players will get out to rubbish stuff if they can't score at the other end and the opposition captain puts in a 7-2 field with instructions to bowl wide, as long as the bowler doesn't get called.

[Ram]

What I am trying to say is that our middle order does not deserve a leave without pay based on this kind of series where it's impossible to play once the ball is 20 overs old on a day 3-4+ track.

I am in general agreement of your assessment, given how pitifully the Lankan batting performed in both their innings. But, I still think a few of our batsman really need to re-think their strategy and outlook so far in the series.

[Chandan]

Then how did Jayawardane score 86?

Because our spinners are not as dangerous as Murali-Mendis and our seamers were quite average in the first inning.

[The Outsider]

Then how did Jayawardane score 86?

On a second day wicket on the back of numerous escapes! Where was Jayawardene when he could not even manage to keep a rank long hop on the ground where Dravid and Tendulkar somehow managed to get their 30s and 40s?

[Dhondy]

Chandan, don't take this otherwise, but I don't recall you ever criticising an Indian player's performance on this forum. It's usually someody or something else, such as the BCCI, fitness, or even a rather good opposition. Never the player's own fault. Any particular reason? Given your enthusiasm and knowledge, it would be a shame if you turned into an apologist for some of these underachieving superstars.

[Desi Cartman]

And is that supposed to be an indictment. Even the best players will get out to rubbish stuff if they can't score at the other end and the opposition captain puts in a 7-2 field with instructions to bowl wide' date=' as long as the bowler doesn't get called.[/quote'] No its not an indictment, my point is GG and VS played far better than SRT , RD , SG etc etc. The fab 4 have struggled, you may have a point when you say that those 70 odd runs were very important but it doesnt mean that the fab 4 (or even 2) have been successful in this series so far. Dilshan and Jaya were able to add 70+ odd runs on a 4th day pitch. I agree that SRT & RD scored valuable runs but it wasnt as heroic or difficult as you are making it sound

[The Outsider]

DD, as I said earlier give me a holler when a middle order scores 100 runs against this attack and conditions. And it'll be a long time that I'll wait for your call, I can pretty much guarantee it.

[Chandan]

Chandan, don't take this otherwise, but I don't recall you ever criticising an Indian player's performance on this forum. It's usually someody or something else, such as the BCCI, fitness, or even a rather good opposition. Never the player's own fault. Any particular reason? Given your enthusiasm and knowledge, it would be a shame if you turned into an apologist for some of these underachieving superstars.

I do criticise the players but I don't believe in going over the top with that because I think whatever cricket we have and the standard of it is only because of these players who fight the system to shine, not the other way round like in Australia where a well oiled system keeps producing quality players. BCCI is least interested in cricket and its development. All they are interested in is to milk it for money by hook or by crook. If being fans we won't understand that these players are there all because of themselves, fighting the adversities of the terrible system and politics and are giving us this joy, then who else will!

[sandtest]

I think whatever cricket we have and the standard of it is only because of these players who fight the system to shine, not the other way round like in Australia where a well oiled system keeps producing quality players.

This is an excellent observation worth it's weight in gold. personally, I feel, India's Test Cricket might head Pakistan way if the same evil 4 seniors are asked to retire now. There is simply NO replacement in sight, neither BCCI money collectors are interested in nurturing Test Cricket talent due to poor return for money in a 5 day match.. As I said at some other thread, we are lucky that we can still see a 3 match test series. In future even a two match or perhaps one match test series can be played and be done with that. BCCI will indeed prefer more ODIs/T20 in time borrowed by culling of Test.

BCCI is least interested in cricket and its development. All they are interested in is to milk it for money by hook or by crook. If being fans we won't understand that these players are there all because of themselves, fighting the adversities of the terrible system and politics and are giving us this joy, then who else will!

And why a veteran cunning politician like Sharad Powar will hold the highest chair in Cricket board if there is not much money into it?. An ex-Chief minister of Maharashtra, the man has record of checkmating opposition parties. Just look at his previous record of corruption scam of "land grabbing" through his son Ajit Powar and then his newfound interest in Cricket Board makes a perfect sense. When seasoned political parties can't say a thing to Powar, our players are nothing in comparison to raise a sane voice.

[Bumper]

Am in complete agreement with Dhondy. We've won this test INSPITE of our middle order, not because of it. I cant see how you can credit Dravid & Tendulkar here, when you set 300 as a target to win & bowl the opponents out for 136 by a superb bowling performance, all on the back of a great start provided by our openers. As I see Dravid & Tendulkar did not screw up as badly as the rest. That does not constitute success in my books. What Sehwag and/or Gambhir did earlier set the tone for the innings. From then on, it was just a matter of maintaining the healthy position, which we couldnt do. The pitch was by no means a minefield on Day 3, it was not difficult to score runs once you were set. And the theory that openers find it easy is just opportunistic. If openers find it so easy, why werent the Lankan openers able to replicate what Sehwag & Gambhir achieved ? And Sachin fell twice to Vaas in two innings, which further pokes holes in that theory. Great as they may be, our MO lacks the spine to put up a fight come 2nd innings. Its been soooo long, since they stood up & fought. Eight out of ten times, regardless of conditions, match situations, come 2nd innings in big games, you can bet your bottom $$$ that our middle order will break down. India should have set 350 as the target, given the platform they had. Had Zaheer/Ishant not picked some early wickets with the new ball (esp that of Mahela & Sanga), the match could have been entirely different.

[Bumper]

For the record, since Jan 2006, in 2nd inns efforts: Sachin averages 21 in 22 games, with a grand total of ONE 50. Dravid averages 34 in 30 odd games, with zero 50s since SA' 2006 Laxman & Ganguly do marginally better averaging 37 & 38 respectively in the same period. In the SAME time period, look at what the Aussie middle order has done: Ponting averages 70, with THREE tons Hussey averages 78, with TWO tons Clarke averages 75, with one ton & four 50s See a pattern ?

[Bumper]

This is what the Aussies did, when they were put under pressure back in 2004, when they toured SL. At Galle after facing a 161 run 1st inning deficit, their MO bounced back, with three tons in the 2nd innings (by Hayden, Martyn & Lehmann). http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/64071.html And to prove that this wasnt some one innings/test wonder, they did it again, in the next test, with Gilly & Marto knocking tons in the 2nd innings. http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/64072.html