Ooops, who will we curse now?

[The Outsider]

Looks like the Indian win in face of all adverse circumstances will leave a few Indian cricket fans out of their day jobs. How are we going to ask for the heads of Dravid and Tendulkar after their partnership put the issue and the match beyond Sri Lanka. What is going to happen to all those grand theories being floated around about the decline of the Indian middle order? What is going to happen to all those replacement plans for the under performing seniors? At least the cursing and mindless criticism of an extremely good test side will be put on hold for a few days till we lose the next match and the series in circumstances which are extremely difficult and challenging.

[Desi Cartman]

yaar I dont think its time for fab 4 to go but if u think that they won this one for Indian then ur kidding ... They havent done much in this series so far ...

[Rajiv]

Veeru, Bhajji + Sharma Rest were xtras

[King]

You didn't ask what's going to happen to ones that are never short of cursing Bhajji and using him as a scapegoat :winky: Let's face it, everyone is contradictory at some point in time including yourself and it's no secret a lot here would love to hate someone. I still think there needs to be a change or two in the Indian team now rather than too late.

[zubinpepsi]

I think Badri shud b tested in place of ganguly... mebe after the OZ tour.. but we cant jus keep playing gangu, laxi or dravid if they flop in the upcoming test matches.. mebe oz series shud b the last... after tht we have to change one by one slowly...

[gs]

Veeru, Bhajji + Sharma Rest were xtras

Maybe add Gambhir to the list. The rest were plain average or utter tripe.

[Rajiv]

Maybe add Gambhir to the list. The rest were plain average or utter tripe.

oh yes, gambhir offcourse

[The Outsider]

You didn't ask what's going to happen to ones that are never short of cursing Bhajji and using him as a scapegoat :winky: Let's face it' date=' everyone is contradictory at some point in time including yourself and it's no secret a lot here would love to hate someone. I still think there needs to be a change or two in the Indian team now rather than too late.[/quote'] No doubt about it and cricket predictions are impossible. Harbhajan bowled extremely well in this test and I am all glad for it, loved it in fact. But I disagree with you that the side needs a change or two except getting a proper keeper in. This is a wonderful test unit and performances over the past few years are the proof of it.

[The Outsider]

I guess some are still not getting the point about the fact that these pitches are practically impossible to bat on unless you are Sehwag once the ball gets old. Yes, Ganguly and the middle order could have performed better but the pitch and opposition bowlers are making that task tremendously difficult. Even the reputed home track bullies of Sri Lanka fell for 139.

[King]

No doubt about it and cricket predictions are impossible. Harbhajan bowled extremely well in this test and I am all glad for it' date=' loved it in fact. But I disagree with you that the side needs a change or two except getting a proper keeper in. This is a wonderful test unit and performances over the past few years are the proof of it.[/quote'] Sure it is excellent but won't stay excellent forever. Every good thing will come to end one day but there should be proper handing over of responsibilities. It's impossible to draft in 6 cricketers in a single series. It's the rule of sport that some will have to be phased out not with standing their past achievements. Remember Aussies in the 80s? They struggled to beat anyone because they lost a lot of terrific players in a heap. Similarly Pakistan a fantastic test unit now have nothing to show because a lot of seniors were left out in a jiff. There comes a stage when you have to filter out the worst of the best for the sake of future. I think the time is now for couple of young ones to get a look in.

[Dhondy]

Completely disagree. India have won this Test on the back of a superhuman performance from Sehwag, and very good ones from Ishant, Gambhir and Bhajji, the last two you (and I) have been critical of, and must therefore put up our hands. What difficult circumstances can explain a side folding for 200 odd and 128 on a pitch where the opposition had just scored 600? Here, have a look at these batting averages after 2 Tests: Dravid 17.5 Tendulkar 18.75 Ganguly 10.75 Laxman 32.25 One of the better, and certainly the most experienced and accomplished middle order in the world. What track were they batting on- the gardens of Hamilton? Nope, this was just plain, old fashioned fear and self doubt plaguing chronic underachievers, who have built their reputations on the back of numerous runs scored in low pressure situations, with the occasional exception like Ganguly's double against Pakistan. Together, in eight innings in this Test match, our "fab four" have aggregated 150 runs. Sehwag bettered that in one blistering innings, and remained not out. Some people should hang their heads in shame. And Dravid and Tendulkar rode on the back of a wonderful opening partnership provided by the openers. It's the least that can be expected of two of the foremost players of the generation. Even then, it was too little.

[jf1gp_1]

You didn't ask what's going to happen to ones that are never short of cursing Bhajji and using him as a scapegoat :winky: Let's face it' date=' everyone is contradictory at some point in time including yourself and it's no secret a lot here would love to hate someone.[b'] I still think there needs to be a change or two in the Indian team now rather than too late.

which one or two ?

[King Tendulkar]

I guess some are still not getting the point about the fact that these pitches are practically impossible to bat on unless you are Sehwag once the ball gets old. Yes' date=' Ganguly and the middle order could have performed better but the pitch and opposition bowlers are making that task tremendously difficult. Even the reputed home track bullies of Sri Lanka fell for 139.[/quote'] Totally agree. Its is some of the toughest bowling to score runs against I have seen. Facing the dual spin attack of murali and mendis is VERY VERY difficult. They are going to destroy a lot of teams with those two. Its actually easier to open as you dont face them two. I dont knock the middle order at all. It is so tough there! I will judge them when they face another attack!

[sandtest]

Even in worst form of life, I simply can't see ANY replacement at the moment for seniors. T20 bravehearts still need a lot more schooling to learn face a foreign pitch rolled out with every minor precaution to suite the host team bowling. May be Badri can be tried in future if someone is unfit....Rohit still need some experience under his belt. But before that, Yuvraj may also gun for one chance, in case he does well in limited overs.

[gs]

Completely disagree. India have won this Test on the back of a superhuman performance from Sehwag, and very good ones from Ishant, Gambhir and Bhajji, the last two you (and I) have been critical of, and must therefore put up our hands. What difficult circumstances can explain a side folding for 200 odd and 128 on a pitch where the opposition had just scored 600? Here, have a look at these batting averages after 2 Tests: Dravid 17.5 Tendulkar 18.75 Ganguly 10.75 Laxman 32.25 One of the better, and certainly the most experienced and accomplished middle order in the world. What track were they batting on- the gardens of Hamilton? Nope, this was just plain, old fashioned fear and self doubt plaguing chronic underachievers, who have built their reputations on the back of numerous runs scored in low pressure situations, with the occasional exception like Ganguly's double against Pakistan. Together, in eight innings in this Test match, our "fab four" have aggregated 150 runs. Sehwag bettered that in one blistering innings, and remained not out. Some people should hang their heads in shame. And Dravid and Tendulkar rode on the back of a wonderful opening partnership provided by the openers. It's the least that can be expected of two of the foremost players of the generation. Even then, it was too little.

Amen! The "fab" 4 are not so "fab" any more. Just piggy backing on Sehwag's spectacular batting.

[The Outsider]

Completely disagree. India have won this Test on the back of a superhuman performance from Sehwag, and very good ones from Ishant, Gambhir and Bhajji, the last two you (and I) have been critical of, and must therefore put up our hands. What difficult circumstances can explain a side folding for 200 odd and 128 on a pitch where the opposition had just scored 600? Here, have a look at these batting averages after 2 Tests: Dravid 17.5 Tendulkar 18.75 Ganguly 10.75 Laxman 32.25 One of the better, and certainly the most experienced and accomplished middle order in the world. What track were they batting on- the gardens of Hamilton? Nope, this was just plain, old fashioned fear and self doubt plaguing chronic underachievers, who have built their reputations on the back of numerous runs scored in low pressure situations, with the occasional exception like Ganguly's double against Pakistan. Together, in eight innings in this Test match, our "fab four" have aggregated 150 runs. Sehwag bettered that in one blistering innings, and remained not out. Some people should hang their heads in shame. And Dravid and Tendulkar rode on the back of a wonderful opening partnership provided by the openers. It's the least that can be expected of two of the foremost players of the generation. Even then, it was too little.

Dhondy, you can put up all the numbers you want - fact remains the match was decided by the Dravid-Tendulkar partnership and I said so when they had that partnership so it's not hindsight talking out of my ar$e here. In these conditions whether they ride on the opening partnership is getting too technical. Why were not the home track bullies of SL able to ride on the second wicket partnership in the first innings? Yes, the first test was a disaster but we have got to be patient with a bunch of proven performers in extremely trying situations. Bumper ridiculed me in another thread for praising Dravid and Tendulkar for their 30s and 40s and now can you tell me how many 30s and 40s the Sri Lankans managed on tailor made grounds?

[Dhondy]

Dhondy' date=' you can put up all the numbers you want - fact remains the match was decided by the Dravid-Tendulkar partnership and I said so when they had that partnership so it's not hindsight talking out of my ar here. In these conditions whether they ride on the opening partnership is getting too technical. Why were not the home track bullies of SL able to ride on the second wicket partnership in the first innings? Yes, the first test was a disaster but we have got to be patient with a bunch of proven performers in extremely trying situations. Bumper ridiculed me in another thread for praising Dravid and Tendulkar for their 30s and 40s and now can you tell me how many 30s and 40s the Sri Lankans managed on tailor made grounds?[/quote'] Oh, c'mon Shwetabh! You are waxing eloquent about a 56 run partnership, completely ignoring the 144 that had been scored before then, mainly due to the courage and kiss-my-ass attitude of our openers, who set the platform with some blistering batting and took the pressure off our middle order. How do you expect that to go unchallenged? Show me some recent instances when these two greats have delivered in the second innings of a match when the pressure was on? Perhaps on the back of some early wickets?

[The Outsider]

Sure it is excellent but won't stay excellent forever. Every good thing will come to end one day but there should be proper handing over of responsibilities. It's impossible to draft in 6 cricketers in a single series. It's the rule of sport that some will have to be phased out not with standing their past achievements. Remember Aussies in the 80s? They struggled to beat anyone because they lost a lot of terrific players in a heap. Similarly Pakistan a fantastic test unit now have nothing to show because a lot of seniors were left out in a jiff. There comes a stage when you have to filter out the worst of the best for the sake of future. I think the time is now for couple of young ones to get a look in.

Point taken. But does that mean we start chopping and changing a unit which has won tests and now series pretty much everywhere? And it's not that we have not tried to get in new blood. Heck, Laxman was placed on the chopping board for an imbecile like Yuvraj at times! Did we get any reciprocation from the youth? Did they perform to even levels which would be considered acceptable at international level? No! They sucked and the simple fact is that Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly, and Laxman are the best middle order we can put forth with our current resources, their ages not withstanding.

[The Outsider]

Oh, c'mon Shwetabh! You are waxing eloquent about a 56 run partnership, completely ignoring the 144 that had been scored before then, mainly due to the courage and kiss-my-ass attitude of our openers, who set the platform with some blistering batting and took the pressure off our middle order. How do you expect that to go unchallenged? Show me some recent instances when these two greats have delivered in the second innings of a match when the pressure was on? Perhaps on the back of some early wickets?

As I've already commented opening is the easiest job to do on these tracks and the latest cricinfo numbers back up my statement. And I completely stand by my statement that the Dravid-Tendulkar partnership put the match beyond SL's reach. Yes they got excellent support from the openers and Sehwag played an innings which even the Gods will cherish till calamity befalls all of us, but is that a reason to lambast a wonderful performance by the middle order? I don't think so specially on a pitch so full of tricks once the spinners were on.

[Dhondy]

As I've already commented opening is the easiest job to do on these tracks and the latest cricinfo numbers back up my statement.

That argument would have sounded credible if the openers had not scored more runs even against the spinners in the second innings than our two greats.