India reaping the rewards of the Youth policy

[Ram]

2-3 years ago, at around 2005 - 2006, there was a slew of youngsters, some barely out their teens, others in their early 20s, who made their debut for India. The trend continues even now. The list starts from guys like Raina, Uthappa, Karthik, RPS,Parthiv, Munaf Irfan etc, ending with guys like Rohit, Tiwary, Ishant, Kohli and Praveen Kumar. Some of 'em have come off from the start, some started well but floudered later, others did not so well. But what it has produced a still really young group of battle hardened veterans, who are still in their early 20s. You look at guys like Raina, Sharma, Ishant, Kohli and you're almost taken aback by their maturity and steady heads on their shoulders. Previously, we were accustomed to seeing such levels of stability only from guys into their 5-6th year of international cricket and in their late 20s. By that time, their batting or bowling may have blossomed, but age would have taken the sheen of their mobility ( fielding). That isnt the case with the current lot, who are not only very good at their speciality skill, but also excellent fieders. And THAT is why I feel our team is now so formidable. We're reaping rich rewards for the policy of blooding in yougsters right out of the U-19 level. We must continue doing it in the future too.

[kablooee87]

Couldn't agree more, but it's ironic isn't it? Which foreign coach was it that was a huge proponent of the youth policy?

[bharat297]

Its not the youth policy as such ... Its the way it was handled. Back then Chappell made Irfan Pathan (a then 21 yr old) open both the batting and bowling and had plucked guys like Raina and Uthappa out of nowhere and said "Perform or Perish". Most of these guys werent ready. On top of that, Chappell seemed to treat senior players in the same manner as a junior just starting off. This created a very uneasy mood in the camp. Contrast that with Dhoni ... who realises the importance of having senior players in the team and when picking youngsters he backs them through some initial failures.

[bharat297]

Couldn't agree more' date=' but it's ironic isn't it? Which foreign coach was it that was a huge proponent of the youth policy?[/quote'] Its not like the "youth policy" is some amazing revelation that was Chappell's brainchild. I mean, its pretty obvious that if you want to improve fielding ... getting younger and more athletic players will help you. You dont need Greg Chappell to tell you that. Its just that it needs to be handled in a better way. The way Dhoni and Srikkanth handled it was much better than the way Chappell handled it.

[vinayak1986]

just think of the scenario had this 'youth policy' been enforced in the mid 90's itself? we could've won 1 or 2 worldcups! i started watching the game in 95. then, i just couldn't understand why players like mongia, sidhu etc were regulars in the team despite inconsistent and non- committed( especially mongia) performances.. Glad that finally our cricket system has come of age,where performance alone matters and not east zone or central or whatever

[Lord]

Its not like the "youth policy" is some amazing revelation that was Chappell's brainchild. I mean' date=' its pretty obvious that if you want to improve fielding ... getting younger and more athletic players will help you. You dont need Greg Chappell to tell you that. Its just that it needs to be handled in a better way. [b']The way Dhoni and Srikkanth handled it was much better than the way Chappell handled it.

we cant forget vengsarkar.cheeka has just come in.most good work ws done by vengsarkar

[Guest HariSampath]

Dhoni is primarily responsible for this change. After T20 world cup, he became powerful as an ODI captain, and used his status perfectly to get the non performing seniors out of the ODI squad. He got Vengsarkar to agree with him and drop Ganguly and Dravid from the ODI team ( that was half the job accomplished), clearing way for 2 younger batsmen. Just these 2 changes alone have been making a difference of around 100 runs per game for us ( around 40 runs Dravid's absence and 60 runs Ganguly's absence, that we gain by way of aggressive batting, running between wickets, fielding etc) Vengsarkar also deserves a lot of credit for this, and Srikkanth although just 6 weeks into this job has been doing well...but in reality, its all Dhoni only...whether it is Vengsarkar, Srikkanth or anyone, they simply have to select the team he asks for, with maybe minor choices of their own.

[Lord]

Dhoni is primarily responsible for this change. After T20 world cup, he became powerful as an ODI captain, and used his status perfectly to get the non performing seniors out of the ODI squad. He got Vengsarkar to agree with him and drop Ganguly and Dravid from the ODI team ( that was half the job accomplished), clearing way for 2 younger batsmen. Just these 2 changes alone have been making a difference of around 100 runs per game for us ( around 40 runs Dravid's absence and 60 runs Ganguly's absence, that we gain by way of aggressive batting, running between wickets, fielding etc) Vengsarkar also deserves a lot of credit for this, and Srikkanth although just 6 weeks into this job has been doing well...but in reality, its all Dhoni only...whether it is Vengsarkar, Srikkanth or anyone, they simply have to select the team he asks for, with maybe minor choices of their own.

what makes u think that it wasnt vengi's own decision to drop ganguly n dravid n dhoni made him do that? give vengsarkar some due,boss.if the move had back fired,people wud have bashed vengsarkar n not even mentioned dhoni.the risk was with vengsarkar,not dhoni.

[bunny]

For people wondering which youth is actually doing good I compiled a list of performances of each player in ODIs since 2008. Of course, the ratings are a bit subjective, but here's the list. (Each line contains the players name, followed by the number of good, v good and bad performances). Name Good VGood Bad Overall Points (= Good + 2*VGood - Bad) Dhoni 11 1 3 10 Harbhajan 4 2 1 7 P Kumar 4 3 3 7 Zaheer 1 3 7 Sehwag 2 4 3 7 M Patel 7 1 6 Yuvraj 6 3 7 5 I Sharma 5 1 3 4 Gambhir 8 1 7 3 Ojha 1 1 3 Tendulkar 2 2 3 3 Sreesanth 2 1 1 Kohli 2 1 1 I Pathan 5 1 7 0 Raina 4 1 6 0 Badrinath 1 1 0 Uthappa 2 2 0 Y Pathan 1 3 -1 Chawla 2 3 -1 RP Singh 2 3 -1 R Sharma 5 9 -4

[Fontaine]

We won the match today on the back of excellent fielding thanks to Yuvi, Raina and others. It's such a remarkable thing to watch aggressive fielding that actually puts pressure on the batsmen and gets regular run outs. It changes the whole psyche of the team when they know they're capable of winning matches not just with their batting but with disciplined bowling backed up with excellent fielding. And that best thing about these young fielders? It doesn't matter where you play in what conditions, good fielding will win you matches anywhere in the world.

[Guest HariSampath]

what makes u think that it wasnt vengi's own decision to drop ganguly n dravid n dhoni made him do that? give vengsarkar some due' date=boss.if the move had back fired,people wud have bashed vengsarkar n not even mentioned dhoni.the risk was with vengsarkar,not dhoni.http://www.thehindu.com/2007/10/29/s...2961352300.htm Ahmedabad: Whether Sourav Ganguly is currently playing in the interests of the Indian team or for self is being mulled over by the National selectors. Some members of the Board of Control for Cricket in India are also aware of the happenings. The news circulating is that captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni and vice-captain Yuvraj Singh have expressed their displeasure about Ganguly’s approach in the sixth one-day international against Australia at Nagpur. This was the reason an attempt was made at the meeting here on Saturday to drop him for the first two one-day internationals against Pakistan to be played at Guwahati and Mohali. Ganguly was picked in the 15-member squad because the five-member selection committee could not arrive at a consensus. Gambhir as opener More than one selector told The Hindu that Ganguly’s approach in one of the Power Play’s was not in the interests of the team and it was a golden opportunity to replace Ganguly with Gautam Gambhir as an opening partner to Sachin Tendulkar. Dilip Vengsarkar’s committee finally decided to retain him in the squad. The Bengal left-hander played in five matches against Australia. Because of rain he did not get to bat at Bangalore, missed the next match at Kochi because of a suspected hamstring pull, though an MRI examination revealed everything was fine. Thereafter he was dropped for the one-dayer at Hyderabad. The BCCI Secretary Niranjan Shah said he was dropped, while the team management maintained that he was rested. In the series that Australia won 4-2, Ganguly made 41 at Chandigarh and 86 at Nagpur, but was dismissed for ducks in Vadodara and Mumbai. Chasing 317, India lost the match at Nagpur by 18 runs. He and Tendulkar raised 140 for the first wicket and the southpaw departed in the first ball of the 37th over for 86 off 111 balls with a strike rate of 77.47. Questions have been raised frequently in his long career that started in Australia in the Benson & Hedges tri-series match against the West Indies in 1992. After that tour he was dropped. He roared back four years later with a century on Test debut against England at Lord’s.

Do you remember that Nagpur ODI and Ganguly's crawl...86 off 115 balls that cost India the match ? It was after that match that Dhoni/Yuvraj had expressed displeasure to Selection committee. In fact it made news everywhere at that time, and it so happened that they wanted to drop Ganguly before that series itself, but all selectors did not agree. Gambhir was being pushed by Dhoni to replace Ganguly even then, but Ganguly managed to play that series. See this, I had posted this on ICF even last year.

[Guest HariSampath]

Here is the thread from last year when we discussed the dropping of Ganguly and Dravid for the tri series in Australia...good thread, that was when the real phasing out seniors from ODI was completed. http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=88156

[Lord]

Do you remember that Nagpur ODI and Ganguly's crawl...86 off 115 balls that cost India the match ? It was after that match that Dhoni/Yuvraj had expressed displeasure to Selection committee. In fact it made news everywhere at that time, and it so happened that they wanted to drop Ganguly before that series itself, but all selectors did not agree. Gambhir was being pushed by Dhoni to replace Ganguly even then, but Ganguly managed to play that series. See this, I had posted this on ICF even last year. http://www.thehindu.com/2007/10/29/s...2961352300.htm Ahmedabad: Whether Sourav Ganguly is currently playing in the interests of the Indian team or for self is being mulled over by the National selectors. Some members of the Board of Control for Cricket in India are also aware of the happenings. The news circulating is that captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni and vice-captain Yuvraj Singh have expressed their displeasure about Ganguly’s approach in the sixth one-day international against Australia at Nagpur. This was the reason an attempt was made at the meeting here on Saturday to drop him for the first two one-day internationals against Pakistan to be played at Guwahati and Mohali. Ganguly was picked in the 15-member squad because the five-member selection committee could not arrive at a consensus. Gambhir as opener More than one selector told The Hindu that Ganguly’s approach in one of the Power Play’s was not in the interests of the team and it was a golden opportunity to replace Ganguly with Gautam Gambhir as an opening partner to Sachin Tendulkar. Dilip Vengsarkar’s committee finally decided to retain him in the squad. The Bengal left-hander played in five matches against Australia. Because of rain he did not get to bat at Bangalore, missed the next match at Kochi because of a suspected hamstring pull, though an MRI examination revealed everything was fine. Thereafter he was dropped for the one-dayer at Hyderabad. The BCCI Secretary Niranjan Shah said he was dropped, while the team management maintained that he was rested. In the series that Australia won 4-2, Ganguly made 41 at Chandigarh and 86 at Nagpur, but was dismissed for ducks in Vadodara and Mumbai. Chasing 317, India lost the match at Nagpur by 18 runs. He and Tendulkar raised 140 for the first wicket and the southpaw departed in the first ball of the 37th over for 86 off 111 balls with a strike rate of 77.47. Questions have been raised frequently in his long career that started in Australia in the Benson & Hedges tri-series match against the West Indies in 1992. After that tour he was dropped. He roared back four years later with a century on Test debut against England at Lord’s.

it doesnt matter really.gauti could have played at 3 the fact is that ganguly was retained for odis against pak n did very well it would have been very hard for dhoni for dhoni to ask for his exclusion in cb series. vengsarkar did take a chance n drop ganguly.it worked,so we must appreciate vengsarkar. n btw,wat about dravid?do u think dhoni asked for his exclusion?dravid left captaincy as it was affecting his batting.when it didnt work in aus series,vengsarkar left him out.dhoni wasnt even involved.

[Guest HariSampath]

No....it is very clear that Dhoni had been pressing for Ganguly to be dropped and Vengsarkar too had been trying to get it done ( full credit to him, thats why u see SG mad at Veng) , Vengsarkar finally got it done by the tri series, but the real issue had flared up after that Nagpur crawl. Regarding Dravid, he was dropped much earlier than tri series. In fact he was dropped from the ODI 11 even when he was in the squad, and Dhoni did it. Dravid was just not considered for selection for tri series after that. It was all through Dhoni's wishes and Vengsarkar obliged him, for both Ganguly and Dravid ( Alhamadilulah )

[Lord]

No....it is very clear that Dhoni had been pressing for Ganguly to be dropped and Vengsarkar too had been trying to get it done ( full credit to him, thats why u see SG mad at Veng) , Vengsarkar finally got it done by the tri series, but the real issue had flared up after that Nagpur crawl. Regarding Dravid, he was dropped much earlier than tri series. In fact he was dropped from the ODI 11 even when he was in the squad, and Dhoni did it. Dravid was just not considered for selection for tri series after that. It was all through Dhoni's wishes and Vengsarkar obliged him, for both Ganguly and Dravid ( Alhamadilulah )

i'm not saying dhoni was against thier exclusion,,but the decision was taken by vengy, risk was with vengy.people(specially bengalis) wud have called for vengy's head if move had backfired.if vengy himself didnt want their exclusion , i dont think he would have done that.maybe it was a collective decision,but it is unfair to say that dhoni called the shots n vengy was just giving dhoni the team he wanted

[Guest HariSampath]

Of course it was Vengsarkar who has to decide, he was the Chief selector...but when a very successful ODI captain specifically says he wants certain players dropped if he has to try and build a team, the Chief selector will HAVE to do it. Same is the case with Krish Srikkanth now.

[King Tendulkar]

some of the things chappell did were ok. His problem was not his cricket ideas but the fact he had zero man management skills and caused so much friction

[Lord]

Of course it was Vengsarkar who has to decide' date=' he was the Chief selector...but when a very successful ODI captain specifically says he wants certain players dropped if he has to try and build a team, the Chief selector will HAVE to do it. Same is the case with Krish Srikkanth now.[/quote'] not really,dhoni wasnt as successful at that time as a captain,so vengy wasnt in any pressure to oblige.,the thing is vengsarkar looked for the future as he realised that dada n dravid couldnt play next world cup n youngsters had recently done well n t20 world cup after dada,sachin n dravid opted out.maybe dhoni wanted the same but it wasnt only dhoni's decision

[Guest HariSampath]

some of the things chappell did were ok. His problem was not his cricket ideas but the fact he had zero man management skills and caused so much friction

MUCH of the things that Greg Chappell did or tried to do , was fantastic. He was perfectly correct in at least the following points : 1. There was a coterie of certain senior cricketers , who were forming the old boys network and preventing younger players from breaking into the team, and/or from getting enough batting opportunities in ODIs. 2. Some senior cricketers were putting their own images in public as stars above the interests of the team needs, and may not be playing for the right reasons. 3. Some of the younger players emerging as future matchwinners had attitude problems and were already developing "star complex", and not focusing on their game itself. Now all these issues have been proved correct, and the changes that Chappell wanted to bring about have been happening for 12 months.

[Guest HariSampath]

not really' date='dhoni wasnt as successful at that time as a captain,so vengy wasnt in any pressure to oblige.,the thing is vengsarkar looked for the future as he realised that dada n dravid couldnt play next world cup n youngsters had recently done well n t20 world cup after dada,sachin n dravid opted out.maybe dhoni wanted the same but it wasnt only dhoni's decision[/quote'] Dhoni has been the biggest thing in Indian cricket after the T20 world cup triumph. The amount of public adulation he has, and the power he commands have been increasingly evident, from even last year. In Indian cricket, pressure builds primarily from BCCI's sponsors, and the media ( both directly related to large scale fan following of India's success). Both these factors were very heavily in favor of Dhoni, as well as the undeniably powerful sponsor lobby of MSD himself in Indian cricket. This can move mountains....and in the case of Ganguly and Dravid, have done so ( Alhamdulillah ) :--D