Holysmoke Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 When you condone a crime, is that a crime in itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 So what do you want dsr......you wantall hindus to become like that? Where does my post say that. I dont want anyone to become extremist. Just made a point of the diversity in thinking in non islamic socities in comparison to the brain washed singular view points in Islamic socieities. The fact I am making about how diveres our view points are compared to islamic society is a compliment to the PC brigade. Just a point I am making that wont see PC brigade in islamic socities. My point is to criticise the islamic societies for not having this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Ok...good. I misunderstood....sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 When you condone a crime' date=' is that a crime in itself?[/quote'] Good question holy. Really good question. what exactly do you mean by condone? Being passive or not actively protesting against it - that can be criticized but not punished. If clear abetting or intentional hiding of fugitives or active participation in perpetration of crime is not there, how can you actively punish that? Does legal system allow for that? If judicial system allows punishment, yes certainly we need to punish. (not talking abt "active abetting" such as knowingly hiding fugitives etc) But if you just passive, i dont know how it can be punished by law. Criticism can be there, but how do you punish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Still doesn't give anyone the right to call others less hindus....anyways...this will never end.:sad_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Still doesn't give anyone the right to call others less hindus....anyways...this will never end.:sad_smile: wont end, but when you see adharma we need to stand up (as per BB) :D so continue ur :protest: against extremism of BB/DR/Sandtest(i hope he comes back too - good to get members back) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 dsr, i think you agree that innocent ppl (no matter they are atheists or follow a faith or whatever) should not be harassed, right? if so - no disagreement. i am not a defender of one religion or another. i'm just talking abt individual rights, not treat everyone "as a group" when an individual commits a crime or preaches crime - then punish him/her. i am not going to defend a religion - that is not my intention. Its about logoc. If all the killers are black jews you monitor them more. If all the attacks are from the country of pakistan. Then of course you monitor and watch them more closely then a country like Switzerland who never have attacked you. Thats common sense. Same here. Over last years attacks coming from fundamental muslims. So of course you monitor them more closely thats common sense and would be common sense to keep an eye on them TO PREVENT FURTHER INDIAN BLOOD BEING SPILLED! We also need to look at how to stop the spread of fundamental islam, that just common sense. You just cant bury your head in the sand and ignore the facts and the realities of what needs to be done to stop further indian blood being spilled. Not harrass them but monitor them and expend intelligence resources on those communities which are clearly threatning the country more then others. Thats just common sense. Good thing you are not a police men finey. As you would search 90 year old grannies as much as 17 year old hoodies all in the name of equality and political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 ok, dsr. i dont know what level of "monitoring" crosses harassment boundary. if such "monitoring" can be done without crossing harassing boundary - then i agree. explain what "monitoring" entails and whether you can put up with such monitoring (as you explain) for your own self if need be. what is the monitoring u want - how private and what all you monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 ok, dsr. i dont know what level of "monitoring" crosses harassment boundary. if such "monitoring" can be done without crossing harassing boundary - then i agree. So finally you agree. Racial profiling is a fact of life and a neccisity. You dont stop deaths by being obssessed with civil liberties and political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 do answer above qn though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 ok, dsr. i dont know what level of "monitoring" crosses harassment boundary. if such "monitoring" can be done without crossing harassing boundary - then i agree. explain what "monitoring" entails and whether you can put up with such monitoring (as you explain) for your own self if need be. what is the monitoring u want - how private and what all you monitor? All types. Suspicious individuals stop and searched. Infiltrate mosques and islamic centres to clamp down on radicals and find out about radicals. This will also help to stop spread of fundies. Racial profiling will of course be in play. Muslims will be stopped more then others and muslim houses searched more then others, thats how it has to be. Some times it will cross boundaries. As long as there are checks in police system for this then it is a neccesary evil in the combat of nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 there are fundamental rights as an individual in constitution - violating individual rights and privacy without clear or very strong evidence won't be permitted by indian law and rightly so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 there are fundamental rights as an individual in constitution - violating individual rights and privacy without clear or very strong evidence won't be permitted by indian law and rightly so who said they will be violated. But as you agreed resources and intelligence in terms of anti terrorism need to be focused on the islamic community. Thats just common sense. This of course must all be done within the law, which of course brings us around to wether the laws are adequate and why the hell we dont have POTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 All types. Suspicious individuals stop and searched. Infiltrate mosques and islamic centres to clamp down on radicals and find out about radicals. This will also help to stop spread of fundies. Racial profiling will of course be in play. Muslims will be stopped more then others and muslim houses searched more then others, thats how it has to be. Some times it will cross boundaries. As long as there are checks in police system for this then it is a neccesary evil in the combat of nutters. I think preventing terrorist attacks and apprehending the terrorist and their supporters should be done at any cost . Even if a few human rights are taken away to savehuman life..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 there are fundamental rights as an individual in constitution - violating individual rights and privacy without clear or very strong evidence won't be permitted by indian law and rightly so yes the potentail terrorist has many rights. Too many rights. We need tougher laws to give anti terrorist forces more power. Congress have been a disgrace in this regard, utter disgrace. Wanted to appease the islamic vote of 150 million people and repealed POTA. Went against the interests of public security to garner votes. DISGUSTING. This is a sign of how sometimes democracy does not work in India Our boys fighting terror need tougher laws to nip potential terror strikes in the bud. It should not be just a case of needing more guns and planes to react to terror strikes. Laws should be there to allow better opportunities to prevent terrorism in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Nice way to double cross your client :--D I have a mind of my own BB...and that's why I am questioning you about your statement. Anyways....I am a strong believer in strong laws in these extra ordinary times. People should be prepared to be questioned,investigated and spied on.Theonus of looking innocent should also lie with the people. Stay away from suspicious people,organisations.....follow rules...orelsebe ready to be investigated.Take care of your family members and be ready to take responsibility for their actions....irrespective of your religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 ok, dsr. i dont know what level of "monitoring" crosses harassment boundary. if such "monitoring" can be done without crossing harassing boundary - then i agree. explain what "monitoring" entails and whether you can put up with such monitoring (as you explain) for your own self if need be. what is the monitoring u want - how private and what all you monitor? Well as you agree. It seems clear that you accept that muslims are the ones to worry about when it comes to commiting terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 People should be prepared to be questioned,investigated and spied on.Theonus of looking innocent should also lie with the people. Stay away from suspicious people,organisations.....follow rules...orelsebe ready to be investigated.Take care of your family members and be ready to take responsibility for their actions....irrespective of your religion. As long as these laws are implemented keeping in mind the fundamental rights of individuals, the innocent among a community will not or atleast should not have an issue with it even if the basis of it is religious/racial profiling. After all such measures will make the place safer for them as well. I don't mind giving my finger prints when entering the US because I know it's only to make the place safer and since I don't have any intentions of committing a crime why should I care if the US govt. has my finger prints. The problem in India is a lot of laws are used by individuals to take out personal grudges which should be stamped upon because it just defeats the very purpose of having them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumper Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Safety of the state comes first. Whatever it takes -- racial or religious profiling, policing communities/ public places are all means to get there. I understand that like any other law, implementation would be a problem, esp in India, but i reckon its worth the trouble. And TBH, profiling is overestimated. If i drop a coin in the dark, I'd look around the area i'm likely to have lost it. It makes no sense to go outside & look elsewhere. This is simple common sense. When this common sense is extended to real life, civil rights activists are all up in arms. I havent been pulled up at airports, but some of my Indian friends have been & they are totally cool with it. They understand that it is part of our life now. Sadly, many moderate & innocent Muslims will be impacted by such policies, but hey, who said the world is fair for everyone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraj Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Safety of the state comes first. Whatever it takes -- racial or religious profiling, policing communities/ public places are all means to get there. I understand that like any other law, implementation would be a problem, esp in India, but i reckon its worth the trouble. And TBH, profiling is overestimated. If i drop a coin in the dark, I'd look around the area i'm likely to have lost it. It makes no sense to go outside & look elsewhere. This is simple common sense. When this common sense is extended to real life, civil rights activists are all up in arms. I havent been pulled up at airports, but some of my Indian friends have been & they are totally cool with it. They understand that it is part of our life now. Sadly, many moderate & innocent Muslims will be impacted by such policies, but hey, who said the world is fair for everyone ? Exactly knowing the fact that 40 Muslims died in the Mumbai terror attack and the attack was conducted by Muslim terrorists evry family loving Muslim would or rather should be in favor of more intense screening than becoming a victim of such attacks. And if one of the insecure one or the "living in la la land human rights activitists" complain then boo- ****ing-hoo; security at this time is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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