Irfan hussain once again tells it like only he can on that side of border

[Guest dada_rocks]

A very big deal http://dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20080612.htm By Irfan Husain OFTEN, a gambler who is down to his last pile of chips will bet them all on a worthless hand in a bluff to recover his losses. Pakistan looked a bit like this desperate poker player when the government announced that it would pull its troops out of the tribal area, where they are engaging Taliban insurgents, in case India moved elements of its army close to the border. Our soldiers are fighting a dangerous enemy because of an existential threat Pakistan faces in this area, and not because we are doing anybody any favours. But by raising the spectre of an open, undefended border, Pakistan is effectively posing an indirect threat to American and Nato forces in Afghanistan. This implied threat, the government hopes, will cause Washington to bring pressure to bear on New Delhi to stop any escalation of the situation. But the United States has little leverage in India, and currently there is a lot of sympathy for the loss of innocent lives India has suffered during the recent terror attacks in Mumbai. Years ago, a western diplomat wrote that Pakistan was the only country in the world that negotiates with a gun to its own head. Our argument, long familiar to aid donors, goes something like this: If you don’t give us what we need, the government will collapse and this might result in anarchy, and a takeover by Islamic militants. Left unstated here is the global risk these elements would pose as they would have access to Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. We have been getting away with this argument for a long time, mainly because a failed, fragmented Pakistan is everybody’s worst nightmare. There are still Pakistanis around, in and out of uniform, who seriously believe that India secretly would like to see the break-up of their country. They need to wake up to reality. Many Indians have written to me, saying that they are glad India was partitioned in 1947, so it now has fewer Muslims to deal with. More to the point, the last thing India wants is to share a common border with Afghanistan. The turmoil there is unlikely to end anytime soon, and our army would be of far more use on that border, dealing with the militant threat. While defending Pakistan recently, our foreign minister was quoted as saying that we were a “responsible state”. And when India presented our government with a list of the names of 20 people accused of terrorism against our neighbour, spokesmen immediately demanded to see the proof against them. This legalistic approach would have carried more weight had the Pakistani state shown this kind of respect for the rule of law in the past. But given the frequency with which ordinary Pakistanis are picked up and ‘disappeared’ by organs of the state without any vestige of due process, the claim to responsibility rings a little hollow. Indeed, a responsible state would hardly allow the likes of Maulana Masood Azhar of the Jaish-i-Mohammad; Hafiz Saeed of the Lashkar-i-Taiba; and the Indian criminal Dawood Ibrahim to run around loose. Every time the West raises a hue and cry following a particularly vicious terrorist attack, a few militant leaders and their followers are picked up, only to be released once the furore has died down. This sends a clear signal to the security agencies that these terrorists are above the law. So why should they risk their lives arresting them, only to see them being released a few weeks later? A Google search for terrorist groups in Pakistan reveals an appalling who’s who of killers, together with the incidents they have been involved in. Going over this bloody history made me realise just how deeply rooted this problem is in Pakistan. Ever since Gen Zia encouraged the establishment of sectarian and ethnic terror groups, we have witnessed a mushroom growth of terrorism over the last two decades. And since many of these groups have supported military governments from time to time, they have acquired important links in officialdom, as well as with some politicians. But above all, these groups have been important pawns in the army’s proxy wars in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Now, having gained prominence as well as financial support, they are not going to disarm and go home just because their existence has become an embarrassment to the Pakistani establishment. It is important to remember that there is now a lot of money flowing into the coffers of these groups. Leaders drive around openly in expensive SUVs, while the rank and file are fairly well paid. These are all people who are not qualified to get the meanest of jobs under normal circumstances. The existence of these dangerous groups, and the impunity with which they have been operating for two decades, all serve to underline the steady meltdown of the Pakistani state. Instead of treating the cancer of terrorism as a law and order issue, the army has viewed it as a political and military opportunity. Lacking legitimacy and a constituency, both Zia and Musharraf depended on religious groups for support. These parties, in turn, gave militants cover. Thus, the Islamic coalition of the MMA allowed the Taliban to flourish when they governed the Frontier province between 2002 and 2007. We are now struggling with the fallout of their policies. As we are caught up in this vortex of ideology and violence, we often shoot ourselves in the foot. For instance, when Prime Minister Gilani declared that he would send the head of the ISI to India, this move was widely welcomed. All too soon, however, the reality of the power balance in Pakistan raised its ugly head, and the offer was withdrawn. Clearly, the army did not relish one of its own being placed on the mat in New Delhi. Nevertheless, the instinct was the right one, and had the PM been able to prevail, General Pasha’s mere presence in India could have helped defuse much of the tension. Many Pakistanis have become so accustomed to terrorist attacks on their soil that they have forgotten that this is not the norm elsewhere. Instead of asking “What’s the big deal?” they should be putting themselves in the place of the victims. If, as seems very likely, the group that attacked Mumbai was trained and armed by the Pakistan-based Lashkar-i-Taiba, it is a very big deal indeed. irfan.husain@gmail.com

[Lurker]

Irfan Hussain is a stellar writer and more often than not is unbiased, almost to the point many Pakistanis would think he is anti-Pakistan(or a pseudo-liberal for their Indian counterparts). Full credit to him to stand firm for as long as he has. Also kudos to Dawn who publishes him, and others, without fear of impunity. Personally I think Dawn is as good as any Indian media. By the way I am only delighted to see Ayaz Mir has moved on. ELse we would have another Zahid Hamid kind of scenario there as well.

[coffee_rules]

I read Dawn almost regularly. The columnists are more pragmatic and editorials are still pro-pakistan. Is Jawed Naqvi an Indian muslim?

[Guest dada_rocks]

http://dawn.com/weekly/jawed/jawed.htm Jwed naqvi there.. lurker Mian although i do not agree with his disparaging remakrs about certain tokenism which might have averted communal fire but I now see why you might like this gentleman. he does poses few questions that i have been asking viz a viz Mullah's inward-looking world view where they behave everyone is out there to get them.. Really liked the comments where he equets these mullah anti-polito drive with taliban's similar drive. Also talks about how rajeev gandhi's one act sin ShahbAno episode and subsequent act of opening the Ram Mandir temple lock in Ayodhya might have the two worst things Rajeev gandhi ever did.. he basically fanned both muslim communalisn and hindu communalism within space of few months for eternity. this part was quite pertinent too

To that extent the Indian state is equally culpable for having surrendered the community’s fate and identity to an association of self-serving clerics. The All India Muslim Personal Law Board has proved to be the undoing of the 150 million strong community, as it has kept them tethered to mediaeval notions of religion, a fertile ground for breeding violence. The clerics earned brownie points demanding the ban on Salman Rushdie’s otherwise unreadable book

I agree the problme but am nto convinced about the culpability fo indian state how do you help a community which gives clarion call for islam in danger everytimt someone lends a helping hand. Don't know what beef he has with Muslims for Vajpayee campaign though.. IS he insinuating muslims must not support BJp if that's the case then I guess in one single article he has shown shades of both ignorance and intelligence. he has also tried to associate election with timing of terror and thinks if congress wins even one of those BJP ruled states they will go easy on anti-terror drive. I have been pointing this fact out for all practical purposes till next blast anti-terror fight goes under carpet. One nice poetry in the article:

Sab tere siwa kaafir, aakhir iska matlab kya! Sar phira de insaa’n ka, aisa khabt-i-mazhab kya!!

[Guest dada_rocks]

I read Dawn almost regularly. The columnists are more pragmatic and editorials are still pro-pakistan. Is Jawed Naqvi an Indian muslim?

Yes he is Indian muslim

[Lurker]

I read Dawn almost regularly. The columnists are more pragmatic and editorials are still pro-pakistan. Is Jawed Naqvi an Indian muslim?

Blasphemy! Didnt you know Dawn was started by Jinnah? Or atleast Jinnah was fundamental in Dawn initial years. Although my comment abt Jinnah is in tongue-in-cheek, it also sets me thinking if there is a reason here for the demise of politics in sub-continent. Most of the founding fathers were very well read, educated and quite good writers. Gandhi's book are obviously good examples, so are Nehru's. Then you had Subhas Bose who published The Statesman(still in publication), Maulana Azad, Rajendra Prasad, Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan etc etc. Who amongst today's leaders can write? Pappu Yadav or Sheila Dixit?

[Lurker]

http://dawn.com/weekly/jawed/jawed.htm Jwed naqvi there.. lurker Mian although i do not agree with his disparaging remakrs about certain tokenism which might have averted communal fire but I now see why you might like this gentleman. he does poses few questions that i have been asking viz a viz Mullah's inward-looking world view where they behave everyone is out there to get them..

He is good. At times he does pi$$es me off but other times he comes across very articulate. I specially like his range. While Irfan Hussain, and I really like the man, is all about politics Jawed Naqvi has written on Bahadur Shah Zafar, Ghalib yada yada...and I like that in him. There is another gentleman called Mehmood Farooquie. He used to publish in Mid-day. Hindi aur Urdu donon ka prakand pundit. You will like him. Unfortunately aajkal jyaada nahi likhta

[Guest dada_rocks]

Blasphemy! Didnt you know Dawn was started by Jinnah? Or atleast Jinnah was fundamental in Dawn initial years. Although my comment abt Jinnah is in tongue-in-cheek, it also sets me thinking if there is a reason here for the demise of politics in sub-continent. Most of the founding fathers were very well read, educated and quite good writers. Gandhi's book are obviously good examples, so are Nehru's. Then you had Subhas Bose who published The Statesman(still in publication), Maulana Azad, Rajendra Prasad, Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan etc etc. Who amongst today's leaders can write? Pappu Yadav or Sheila Dixit?

You missed the other stalwart of writing in that era Savrakar..I know I know many have problems with his ideology but pound for pound in wirting he was no less than any of his contemporary. Shyama Prasad mukherjee was another stalwart. Necesstiy is the mother of invention those were the days when India needed thinkers to defeat british to earn freedom. These days all India needs is to perpetuate that freedom earned by those stalwarts. It's not India specific problem: World over there is paucity of intellectuals as leaders .. They these days confine themsleves to comedy shows:cantstop:

[Bumper]

Thanks for sharing this DR. Two questions to Munda & the likes who appear to be moderate, while actually condoning or defending terrorism: 1) I asked this the other day & I'll ask it again. If LeT, JeM & other organizations are BANNED (because they are terrorist organizations), why does Pak need proof to arrest its leaders and commanders ? If Pak is committed to clamping down on terrorism, why does it need proof to arrest the 20 terrorists in India's short list ? Perhaps Pakistan *wants* these terrorists to continue to operate ? 2) When it comes to any Indian Muslim caught in terrorist activities, Paksters are quick to point "See its your *own* Muslims who are wrecking havoc in your country". Even after the recent Mumbai attack, inspite of glaring evidences, I have read numerous Pak posters dismissing the attack, as the work of some local Mujahideen group (effectively disowning these Muslims). However the same folks sing a diff tune when it comes to Kashmir Muslims. Apparently its their Muslim brothers (their own kind) are suffering & hence Pakistan must be involved. So its a case of, "When it works for me, they are my Muslim brothers, else, they are your own problems". Hypocrisy anyone ?

[Lurker]

You missed the other stalwart of writing in that era Savrakar..I know I know many have problems with his ideology but pound for pound in wirting he was no less than any of his contemporary. Shyama Prasad mukherjee was another stalwart.

Never really liked Savarkar's political views but he was an excellent writer. I cant say I have read SP Mukherjee. Who is/are the good writers in the BJP/RSS camp today(excluding likes of Shourie, Jaitley etc)

[Guest dada_rocks]

Good luck with getting replies.. I have been chasign these guy with question like What constitues evidence.. No direct reply came forth but I figured out when USA says pakistan did then they will buy. Seems even that event has come and gone and yet denialists won't buy it.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Never really liked Savarkar's political views but he was an excellent writer. I cant say I have read SP Mukherjee. Who is/are the good writers in the BJP/RSS camp today(excluding likes of Shourie, Jaitley etc)

Aadavni himself is celebrated columnist of era gone by.. Need to buy his book I am told it's a treatise on nationalism. Narendra Modi writes poetry very recently one of his poetry book was published and person no less than Bhairo Singh shekhawat commented Modijee the kind of workaholic you are I could never have imagined you cud produce this sort of literatuer. S P Mukherjee people associated more with public speaking. Vajpayee's guru he was in that sense that's why his writing didn't gain that kind of recognition.

[Lurker]

^^ Seems like Yagana Changezi is the flavour of the time for now. Heard him mentioned by others, including Jawed Naqvi. Here are a couple of nice shers that I could pull out from the web. Adab kay vastay kitnon kay dil dukha’ay hain Yagana hud say guzarna na tha magar guzray.. Khudi ka nasha charrha aap main raha na gaya Khuda banay thay Yagana magar bana na gaya Seems like he was a Nehru favorite.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Yagan Changeziz didn't hold his thoughts it seems. These verses are his. He accused Glaib of plagiarism. दीवानों के ये जोर, ना देखे, ना सुने नादानों का ये शोर ना देखे, ना सुने झंडे पे चढ़ाने को चढ़ाते हैं मगर, गालिब से चाचा चोर ना देखे, ना सुने

[The Outsider]

Bumper, in addition to the what you wrote above...if we are to believe the Pakistani claim that they have arrested 7 LeT members in two days, what was Pakistan doing for the last 6 years since LeT has been banned if it was so easy to arrest them? Doesn't it show an implicit involvement of their government at the very least? These are people who have been on terrorist watch lists for years and one fine day Pakistan can simply put half a dozen of them in jail.....

What constitues evidence.. No direct reply came forth but I figured out when USA says pakistan did then they will buy.

USA? Are you kidding me? The lot you are trying to convince thinks everything wrong with the world is a Zionist conspiracy against the Muslim world. Take it from me, nothing, absolutely nothing will convince those guys even the "action" being taken by their own government against LeT now, which is being attributed to routine roundups.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Lurks,DR Have you read : "Six glorious Epochs of Indian History" (English translation of the original Marathi book titled : "Bharatiya itihaasa che saha sunehere panne" by Savarkar )

Little exceprts here and there ..he was considered the one of the best writer of his era if not the best.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Bumper, in addition to the what you wrote above...if we are to believe the Pakistani claim that they have arrested 7 LeT members in two days, what was Pakistan doing for the last 6 years since LeT has been banned if it was so easy to arrest them? Doesn't it show an implicit involvement of their government at the very least? These are people who have been on terrorist watch lists for years and one fine day Pakistan can simply put half a dozen of them in jail..... USA? Are you kidding me? The lot you are trying to convince thinks everything wrong with the world is a Zionist conspiracy against the Muslim world. Take it from me, nothing, absolutely nothing will convince those guys even the "action" being taken by their own government against LeT now, which is being attributed to routine roundups.

many people here put MP in sane canteogry from across thre border and those were hsi words if USA agrees then he will buy the theoyr of Pakistani involvement. needless to say since then he has disappeared because USA granted his wish very next day.

[Lurker]

Lurks,DR Have you read : "Six glorious Epochs of Indian History" (English translation of the original Marathi book titled : "Bharatiya itihaasa che saha sunehere panne" by Savarkar )

Yes I have. I would probably like to read some of these books - Savarkar, Gandhi, Nehru, Azaad, Subhas Bose - now so I can make a more informed judgement. Ironically most of these books I read was between the age 15-25. I am not sure if it works like that for everyone?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Add to that list Dayanad Saraswati's Satyarth Prakash.. Good books need to be read more than once anyway..

[The Outsider]

many people here put MP in sane canteogry from across thre border and those were hsi words if USA agrees then he will buy the theoyr of Pakistani involvement. needless to say since then he has disappeared because USA granted his wish very next day.

MP is level headed poster but has close ties to a website where the majority is British Pakistanis - the most unreasonable and bigotted group of people I have come across in general.....I don't blame him if some of their conspiracy theories leave the occasional impression on him.