Guest dada_rocks Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Little history lesosn for clueless. Gaza West bank all these regions were not part of israel.. they were part of adjacent arabic islamic countries who together attacked israel .. intention was to wipe it out from jews.. All these mofos who call themselves refugee at that inhabintant of israel sided with marauding arab armies and in a way were makingiut easier for arab armies to kill jews by steping aside ........ As we knwo Israel handed over great thrashing to these collective arab army and ended up occupyign territoryof these adjacent states.... sudenly you hear these reegions belong to palestinains noone asks if that is the case then why didn;t these arba mofos gave paestinains these lands before 67........ We have bunch of thugs collectively attackign a country and in the war losing their territory sheding tears how their land has been ilelgally occupied.. no palestinains ahs claim over those lands if any country has claim it;s those nearby srab states who owned those territories at some stage btu since they attacked a sovereign country without being provoked they lose the right to shed tears.. you initate a war then get ready to face the consequences..
Dhondy Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I find it kinda hypocritical if you are living, working or educating yourself in the USA or UK, and at the same time slam them as terrorist states and equate them with blatant state sponsored agents of terror. If you are that conscientious, why live in the US? Vote with your feet, give up the megabucks or the Ivy League education...live by your morals.
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 forget Darfur' date=' Gaza etc .... lets stick closer to home ... in Bengaluru we had open julus taken out protesting US capture of Saddam ... There were violent protests against that Bangladeshi progressive woman ( Nasreen (?) ) ... Ohhh wait i forgot one percent wonly sorry my bad saar :giggle:[/quote'] let me add in that protest 12 hindus were killed in pune
The Outsider Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I find it kinda hypocritical if you are living' date=' working or educating yourself in the USA or UK, and at the same time slam them as terrorist states and equate them with blatant state sponsored agents of terror. If you are that conscientious, why live in the US? Vote with your feet, give up the megabucks or the Ivy League education...live by your morals.[/quote'] Dhondy, even if someone does call the US war in Iraq state sponsored terrorism - it's a hyperbole and probably nothing more should be read into it. But the bottom line is that the grave misjudgement and pig headed response of the US and UK to stay and fight in Iraq has caused the death of thousands of innocent civilians, hurt the economy, and resulted in the death of soldiers who should not have been there in the first place. The war in Iraq has been criticized across the board except by right wingers. Even US citizens are sick of the war and have participated in numerous protests against it. Surely, protesting against the injustices of even your own country is not hypocritical. Moreover, people studying and working in the US are doing so because of it's education system and job opportunity - what has the government policy on a war got to do with the good education and jobs people are getting.
kumble_rocks Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 forget Darfur' date=' Gaza etc .... lets stick closer to home ... in Bengaluru we had open julus taken out protesting US capture of Saddam ... There were violent protests against that Bangladeshi progressive woman ( Nasreen (?) ) ... Ohhh wait i forgot one percent wonly sorry my bad saar :giggle:[/quote'] Agreed ,and if I remember correctly , wasn't it ex railway minister Jaffer Sharief who organized this rally in bangalore. He should be baked alive by Shias of lucknow for supporting Shia Killer Saddam !
Dhondy Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Moreover, people studying and working in the US are doing so because of it's education system and job opportunity - what has the government policy on a war got to do with the good education and jobs people are getting. Unlike those born in the US, they have a choice. They had a choice not to come and work/study in a state the feel is amoral, and they have a choice which they can exercise by getting out. If they don't exercise that choice, it's better to keep their counsel, because it's quite clearly hpocritical, no, downright immoral to criticise a country's policies and continue to benefit from its prosperity. And who judges whether it's hyperbole or not? One is judged by what one says.
The Outsider Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Unlike those born in the US, they have a choice. They had a choice not to come and work/study in a state the feel is amoral, and they have a choice which they can exercise by getting out. If they don't exercise that choice, it's better to keep their counsel, because it's quite clearly hpocritical, no, downright immoral to criticise a country's policies and continue to benefit from its prosperity. hmmmm.....let's see......I came to the US in '99 for my graduate school, so if the US started the Iraq war(which I don't consider moral) in 2003, I should quit my studies and go back to India, work on my farms, and now that Obama has been elected with the stated aim of ending the war, reapply to finish my degree?
Dhondy Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 hmmmm.....let's see......I came to the US in '99 for my graduate school' date=' so if the US started the Iraq war(which I don't consider moral) in 2003, I should quit my studies and go back to India, work on my farms, and now that Obama has been elected with the stated aim of ending the war, reapply to finish my degree?[/quote'] No, you should simply keep your counsel.
The Outsider Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 No' date=' you should simply keep your counsel.[/quote'] I guess we have a different view of looking at things. A country, any country, is not a monolith characterized by or identified by just one thing. The fact that I praise aspects of a country I am living in, also gives me the right to criticize things which I feel it is not doing correctly. It doesn't make me any more hypocritical or immoral than criticizing some aspects of the hospital, university, or organization that I work or study in during discussion with colleagues, IMO.
Ram Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I find it kinda hypocritical if you are living' date=' working or educating yourself in the USA or UK, and at the same time slam them as terrorist states and equate them with blatant state sponsored agents of terror. If you are that conscientious, why live in the US? Vote with your feet, give up the megabucks or the Ivy League education...live by your morals.[/quote'] Many of American colleagues at my work place share my sentiment that America waged an illegal in Iraq, So are they all supposed to give up their citizenship and emigrate? This is the aspect of the free society and that America and the West lose no opportunity to trumpet about, an aspect where ordinary people can speak against the govt. without fear of persecution. We are merely exercising that right. Surely, there are many things that U.S govt does that has support and naturally, there are things that it does that I dont like. And more importantly, my grouse is against the U.S govt, not the U.S as a nation as such.
suraj Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=MTU5Nzk1NjkyMw== reasons why Israel deals harshly with its "neighbours" stuff in that link is taught in primary schools BTW It is the moral duty of every non-Muslim to roll over and die so that these educational teachings chosen by the voice of "Islamic" public can be respected- otherwise we have no moral right to discuss anything else.
Sachinism Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Some questions people will be asking and answers 1) “Israel’s response in Gaza is disproportionate†Since when is war a mathematical equation? The basic objective of any warring party is to inflict maximal damage on the enemy while minimizing its own casualties. Was there anything proportional about the US war in Iraq? Or about Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait for that matter? Or about Russia’s recent war against Georgia? Israel is doing exactly what any other country has done in the past. This is how war works. Would a British citizen complain that “too few†British soldiers are being killed in Iraq? Probably not. And on a more elementary note: Palestinian military inferiority is not an indication of moral superiority. Palestinian insistence on resorting to violence despite this military weakness is an indication of poor judgment perhaps – yet it is by no means an indication of moral virtue. Being militarily weak does not make the Palestinians right. 2) “But Qassams don’t kill.†Actually, Qassams do kill. Not too often, perhaps, but dozens of Israelis were killed and wounded by rocket fire in recent years. Moreover, at this time the Palestinians are firing long-range Grad rockets with even greater explosive power. Such rockets killed 2 Israelis Monday. Yet beyond the casualty figures, the psychological damage caused as result of living under an ongoing rocket threat is immeasurable. Would anyone in the West agree to have their family live under constant rocket attacks and be regularly woken up by sirens in the middle of the night? Would anyone living under such conditions appreciate being told that “these rockets don’t kill?†Probably not. 3) “It’s all because of Israel’s siege. Israel should allow aid into Gaza.†Israel has allowed goods into Gaza regularly throughout the “siegeâ€. Palestinians have been able to complement these deliveries with supplies smuggled through hundreds of tunnels (of course, they would likely be able to bring in even more food had they not used the tunnels to smuggle in missiles.). The day before operation “Cast Lead†got underway, Israel allowed dozens of trucks carrying aid to enter the Strip. On Tuesday, another 100 trucks – double the normal number –are expected to enter Gaza after Defense Minister Barak approved the move. In short, Israel is allowing aid into the Strip (but guess who has kept Gaza crossings mostly closed thus far? That’s right, Egypt.) 4) “Why didn’t Israel just agree to renew the Gaza truce?†First, what truce? Terror groups continued to fire rockets throughout the lull, even if somewhat infrequently, and even if the world didn’t seem to care too much. Nonetheless, Israel clearly declared that it is interested in extending the truce. Our top officials made it clear time and again. Yet Hamas leaders clearly declared that the truce has ended on December 19th, and proceeded to bombard southern Israeli communities with dozens of rockets daily. In short, it is no wonder that even the Egyptians are blaming Hamas this time. 5) “But Hamas was elected democratically – why can’t Israel accept it?†Although Hamas won the Palestinian elections, it took Gaza by force, in the process hurling rival Fatah members down to their death from high-rises and shooting others in the knees with the declared aim of maiming them. Some democracy. In any case, Israel in fact “recognizes,†de facto, Hamas’ rule in Gaza, which is precisely why it is justified in attacking the Hamas-ruled Strip, recognizing that it is indeed being governed by a terror entity. Israel did not launch the operation because Hamas is in power there – rather, it did so because Hamas is a terrorist organization that has deliberately targeted civilians with thousands of rockets over the past 8 years. 6) “Israel is targeting civilians.†You mean to say that “one of the most powerful armies in the world†has been bombing Gaza for days, deploying massive air power, dropping hundreds of bombs, and ultimately killing a grand total of 50 civilians or so in the “most crowded place on earth?†There are two options here: A) The Israeli army is not targeting civilians, or B) Israeli pilots suck. We tend to go with option A.Indeed, Israel goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, by deploying precise ammunition and specialized techniques. In fact, nobody in the world does this better than the Jewish State.
MundaPakistani Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 This is absolutely inhumane and the worst thing is that there is a fairly large number of people who are(and have been) defending these hideous actions and in some cases the deaths are being celebrated. What a shameless world we live in! As for the history of the region.... The Jews and Muslims had lived in that area for decades and centuries with out any major conflict . Remember Jews were living in that land WITH the Muslims for years , they were NOT being forcefully kicked out or massacred and there were absolutely NO other major conflicts and Jews in general were treated quite well It was in Europe where the Jews had a problem(a big one) and after the Balfour deceleration millions were slaughtered, i find it amazingly ironic that people who paid for the crimes against the Jews were those who had more than a decent relationship with the Jews. This is why you may find Muslims who think that Jews stabbed them in the back when in reality it wasn't the Jews it was the Zionists who created the mess and were unfortunately fully backed by the Balfours and Wilsons. Britain really had no right to assign the separate state for the Jews and kick all the owners out of the area when even most of the Jews were against Zionism at the time. The word unfair isn't strong enough to describe the Balfour deceleration and yet we have people here who want to forget all of that and accept the most unjust piece of nonsense in recent history. imagine if a person comes in to our home throws us out and God forbid harms one of your family members then how will WE react? especially if its the same person who WE have treated well while others have tried to kill/rape him/her!how ever i fully sympathize with the Jews in Israel as they were treated very very poorly in Europe ,were victims of terrorism by the Zionists and now have the same barbaric Zionists as their leaders and have to deal with the possibility(although many many times less than the folks in Gaza) of a rocket killing their family members.The best solution is simply a peaceful dismissal of the Zionists for good just like Apartheid rule in SA was recently dismissed for good. US and Britain's "close friendship" with the "state" of Israel a continuation of the horrific blunder 1- They fully supported an idea of an illegitimate state. 2- They helped drive out/kill/rape the people originally living in the state, the same people who treated the people of the illegitimate state better than any one else i.e fully support back stabbing of the worst kind. 3- They recognized the state and protect it against any sort of fight back by giving 100s of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. 4- They helped the illegitimate state move forward and "grow" in every way possible and let it carry tons of prisoners. 5- They continued to tag the original owner as terrorists yet support the killings/rapes(which are many many many times more) by the illegitimate state. Surely this 90 years of all out support MORE than a "mistake".....surely its now time for the average citizens OUTSIDE the middle east to speak up against this blatant injustice(once again a very weak word considering the happenings of the last 90 years). There is a VAST difference between Judaism and Zionism... Listen to this Jewish Rabbi.... [ame= - Rabbi Weiss, Outside Annapolis Peace Confab, Rips Zionism[/ame] [ame= - Rabbi Against Israel (Zionism)[/ame] Israel and Zionism [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJNpoiVtSY&feature=related]YouTube - Israel and Zionism[/ame]
Macj Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Britain really had no right to assign the separate state for the Jews and kick all the owners out of the area when even most of the Jews were against Zionism at the time. The word unfair isn't strong enough to describe the Balfour deceleration and yet we have people here who want to forget all of that and accept the most unjust piece of nonsense in recent history. Sure they did, as keepers of the peace and victors in WW1 they did have the capacity and legal right, maybe not in the emotional or moral sense. imagine if a person comes in to our home throws us out and God forbid harms one of your family members then how will WE react? Yes thats exactly what the Muslims did, to the Jews and Christians by making them Dhimmis in their own land.
TheBoyPlunger Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 As for the history of the region.... The Jews and Muslims had lived in that area for decades and centuries with out any major conflict . Remember Jews were living in that land WITH the Muslims for years , they were NOT being forcefully kicked out or massacred and there were absolutely NO other major conflicts and Jews in general were treated quite well It was in Europe where the Jews had a problem(a big one) and after the Balfour deceleration millions were slaughtered, i find it amazingly ironic that people who paid for the crimes against the Jews were those who had more than a decent relationship with the Jews. This is why you may find Muslims who think that Jews stabbed them in the back when in reality it wasn't the Jews it was the Zionists who created the mess and were unfortunately fully backed by the Balfours and Wilsons. Britain really had no right to assign the separate state for the Jews and kick all the owners out of the area when even most of the Jews were against Zionism at the time. The word unfair isn't strong enough to describe the Balfour deceleration and yet we have people here who want to forget all of that and accept the most unjust piece of nonsense in recent history. The same reasong could very well be used in the case of Pakistan - Hindus and Muslims have lived in the Indian Subcontinent for centuries. What was the need to have a Pakistan? How is this any different from the Israel - Palestine conflict?
MundaPakistani Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 The same reasong could very well be used in the case of Pakistan - Hindus and Muslims have lived in the Indian Subcontinent for centuries. What was the need to have a Pakistan? How is this any different from the Israel - Palestine conflict? umm...serious question? When PAK was created Muslims from all over the world did NOT come in IND and kickall the hindus out of their houses, stole their lands and put them in the most barren areas of India...the creation of Israel on the other hand was a stabbing in the back of the people of the region. Imagine there are 5 apartments with 10 people each 8 of AB religion 2 of CD religion... In the 1st apartment the 2 folks of CD religion are treated fairly well and are allowed to get on with their lives. In 2 out of the remaining 4 apartments they are treated like dirt and are beaten up every day the 8 people of the AB religion. Now the 10 people of CD religion combine(or are forced to combine) and with the help of the bullies take out the 8 people of AB religion in the FIRST apartment(this is the place where the folks of CD religion WERE treated fairly well) and lock them in one room. So its laughable to suggest if the creation of Israel is the same as creation of Pakistan.
MundaPakistani Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Yes thats exactly what the Muslims did, to the Jews and Christians by making them Dhimmis in their own land. ok one more time before i log out... People of all three religions WERE living in that area before Zionism, the Jews or Christians were NOT being kicked out, the Jews were NOT victims of holocaust in Palestine.
sandtest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 This is absolutely inhumane and the worst thing is that there is a fairly large number of people who are(and have been) defending these hideous actions and in some cases the deaths are being celebrated. What a shameless world we live in! What a shameless and hypocrite islamists like you are!! Think about this FIRST -- Who started this? There was truce between PA Fatah and Israeli government. This pact ended. Israel asked if Palestine is interested in renewing the truce. Hamas straightaway rejected the truce. Next what, Hamas --- the radical Nazi Islam followers started throwing rockets at israel. So what you Islamist want??? While Israel is attacked they should behave like India and allow themselves getting slaughtered at the hands of Islamists? Are you going to condemn the Hamas??? or are you a hypocrite closet jeehadi sympathiser.? As for the history of the region.... The Jews and Muslims had lived in that area for decades and centuries with out any major conflict . Pure Islamic BS! Just look at the origin of your pious religion and persecution of Jews of Mecca at the hands of Muhammad on flimsy background. Do I need to remind you about Jewish tribes of Mecca and how they were eliminated by your beloved prophet, their women taken away? imagine if a person comes in to our home throws us out and God forbid harms one of your family members then how will WE react? Exactly, this is what Islam has been doing --- invading, converting, raping and destroying civilization after civiliation. And this is how "educated" faces of Islam like you have been doing, defending heinous crimes of "Religion of Peace". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJNpoiVtSY&feature=related"]YouTube - Israel and Zionism The You Tube video which you have posted is an all out Propaganda. Spare ICF from your arab Islamic propaganda. The Rabbi which you have posted has also attended a seminar organized by Iran's nutjob President Ahmedine-Is a -Joke...and seminar was about denial of holocaust....so their goes the cerdibility of Rabbi.:giggle:
sandtest Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Since the content is lengthy, I am just providing the link, please go through this. It will dispel a lot of Islamic propaganda against Israel. Israel Accused -- 50 concise responses. http://www.beyondimages.info/area7.html
novpj Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Its very simplistic to think that war is the solution to Israel's problems; where will it stop - will it carpet bomb Gaza; will it kill the million who live there in pathetic condition. Also the logic that these civilians deserve to die because they let the millitants hide among them is bad - look at what Hamas did to Fatah in Gaza; they wiped out their political opponents. I think the common man in gaza is a victim of Hamas as is one in Israel but the solution to this is not to use overwhelming force and accept death of hundreds of innocent men and women. This is only going to strengthen Hamas; every family affected is now a family converted to their cause.
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