h4te Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 marirs, it's no different here in the US, tbh. For undergraduate admissions, people of under represented races (i suppose, 'BC') can get in easier than others....and more so for scholarships and such. For example, even if there are 10 very well qualified White-Male/Indian/Chinese for a CS program with 10 slots, they can only take 8 of those, giving 2 slots for 'underrepresented' folks who are less qualified. This goes under the bullsh*t of "diversity"....
Ram Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 year = 2009 topic/argument = caste issues me = Trust me, it is still massively important in so many states like U.P, Bihar, T.N and most of the central belt.
Ram Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 marirs, it's no different here in the US, tbh. For undergraduate admissions, people of under represented races (i suppose, 'BC') can get in easier than others....and more so for scholarships and such. For example, even if there are 10 very well qualified White-Male/Indian/Chinese for a CS program with 10 slots, they can only take 8 of those, giving 2 slots for 'underrepresented' folks who are less qualified. This goes under the bullsh*t of "diversity".... You said it yourself. Why do you think the US govt/private colleges/Corporations promote diversity? They believe, based on scientifically proven research, that a diverse background leads to better innovation, better growth of ideas etc. Thats why the top B-schools insist on a certain number of foreign admissions. But the Indian govt. does not do that. They do it merely to prop up certain sections of the society, IRRESPECTIVE of merit. Thats pure bull-dust.
fineleg Posted January 22, 2009 Author Posted January 22, 2009 Its a bit shocking to read this thread. caste system? or Macj's statement?
Macj Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 The Dravidian movement needed a bogeyman and they found a convenient one in the Brahmins. But beyond that, you're majorly confusing the caste issue and the language issue. I dont think I am, I think they go hand in hand. The DMK have effectively used one inside another to achieve their political goal, that being the social, political and economic death of the Brahmin community of Tamil Nadu.
Macj Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 caste system? or Macj's statement? Pray tell me what is 'shocking' in my statement? "Ulagam Engum Ore Mozhi, Ulam pesum Kadhal mozhi, Osai indru pesum mozhi, Uruvam illa deyvam mozhi, Paravai ondrum varnangal veru, Paatu ondru raagangal veru"
f.b.m Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 The Dravidian movement needed a bogeyman and they found a convenient one in the Brahmins. But beyond that, you're majorly confusing the caste issue and the language issue. Yep, he is really confusing ethnicity with caste. Tbh, From what I've seen in rural areas in TN its that "lower caste" groups usually go to the DMK but even that's very loose. A few family deals and ties here and there and the whole village votes for AIADMK.
f.b.m Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 The DMK have effectively used one inside another to achieve their political goal, that being the social, political and economic death of the Brahmin community of Tamil Nadu. Not really, the Brahmin community was just a very easy punching bag to gain votes for SC/ST, etc vote bank.
fineleg Posted January 22, 2009 Author Posted January 22, 2009 Pray tell me what is 'shocking' in my statement? "Ulagam Engum Ore Mozhi, Ulam pesum Kadhal mozhi, Osai indru pesum mozhi, Uruvam illa deyvam mozhi, Paravai ondrum varnangal veru, Paatu ondru raagangal veru" naan shocking-nu sollale, but I wanted to understand what graphic23 was trying to say. However, I do feel that just perhaps you are indeed mixing up ethnicity (origin telugu or kannada etc) with out and out caste based politics that is prevalent in many parts of India incl. very much in TN. Can you clarify why you think the two are intertwined?
triam Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I dont know Macj, although I do understand your hatred, JJ being a brahmin herself was the one who raised the reservations to 69% if I am not wrong. So, this could have deep roots as well. Yep, he is really confusing ethnicity with caste. Tbh, From what I've seen in rural areas in TN its that "lower caste" groups usually go to the DMK but even that's very loose. A few family deals and ties here and there and the whole village votes for AIADMK. The 'lower caste groups' do not really have party ties as far as I can see, they do tie up a lot with the caste of the contestant, and AFAIK PMK has these groups cornered more than any other party.
Ram Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I dont know Macj, although I do understand your hatred, JJ being a brahmin herself was the one who raised the reservations to 69% if I am not wrong. So, this could have deep roots as well. The 'lower caste groups' do not really have party ties as far as I can see, they do tie up a lot with the caste of the contestant, and AFAIK PMK has these groups cornered more than any other party. PMK's main strength is the 'Vanniyar' group, predominantly in the Southern districts and not all the classes that have been mentioned.
Macj Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 naan shocking-nu sollale, but I wanted to understand what graphic23 was trying to say. However, I do feel that just perhaps you are indeed mixing up ethnicity (origin telugu or kannada etc) with out and out caste based politics that is prevalent in many parts of India incl. very much in TN. Can you clarify why you think the two are intertwined? Why they are intertwined. Okay lets first talk about why Brahmins are villified: The claim by DK groups is Brahmins are alien to the Tamil country. Thus they are NOT Tamilians. Thus they are NOT loyal to Tamil and Tamil causes. Thus they are to be shut out of the political system in TN. They are TRAITORS to Tamil because they conduct their prayers in Sanskrit. Now lets see who IS included in the political system without molestation. Nayakars, Sourashtra Tanjore Marathi and Muslims ARE alien to the Tamil country. These ARE ethnic castes. They ARE active in the politics and social fabric of TN. They DO get reservations EVEN though many are considered Forward castes. Sourashtra are for the most part a caste AND a language, and they are distinct from Tamilians YET they ARE considered Tamilians. Naidus (caste) like Vijaykanth speak Tamil are considered Tamil EVEN though they arent Tamil. Say ive been told im not welcome in TN because say im Brahmin by say a Madurai Naidu. Do you see the ironic dichotomy in this statement? Thats my point.
Macj Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I dont know Macj, although I do understand your hatred, JJ being a brahmin herself was the one who raised the reservations to 69% if I am not wrong. So, this could have deep roots as well. The 'lower caste groups' do not really have party ties as far as I can see, they do tie up a lot with the caste of the contestant, and AFAIK PMK has these groups cornered more than any other party. The lower castes voted in droves for MGR, but nowadays they vote for parties that field Dalit candidates in their constituencies. Like I said some of the travails of Brahmins were caused by Brahmins themselves but no one cares about their plight.
Macj Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Forget about an anachronistic state like TN, even in Delhi slums, Kashmiri Pundits are relegated to carrying night soil.
graphic23 Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 caste system? or Macj's statement? I am hurt to know that someone feels that one from another state cannot come and join TN politics because I will cast away as a Telugu. If I grew up in TN (I didn't but as a hypothetical case), but my roots go back to Andhra, am I not allowed to serve the people in TN (with whom I would connect more because thats the environment I grew up in)? Rajni himself has Marathi roots (Gaekwad) who worked for a long time in Karnataka and joined the film industry. The man had to learn Tamizh before he could act - he knew Kannada and Telugu - but everyone adores him (including me) without any prejudice. No one even dares to say that Rajnikanth is a non-Tamilian (heis a Tamilian because thats where he got the fame - thats where he feels loyal to and thats the society he's embraced as his own).
Macj Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 I am hurt to know that someone feels that one from another state cannot come and join TN politics because I will cast away as a Telugu. If I grew up in TN (I didn't but as a hypothetical case), but my roots go back to Andhra, am I not allowed to serve the people in TN (with whom I would connect more because thats the environment I grew up in)? Rajni himself has Marathi roots (Gaekwad) who worked for a long time in Karnataka and joined the film industry. The man had to learn Tamizh before he could act - he knew Kannada and Telugu - but everyone adores him (including me) without any prejudice. No one even dares to say that Rajnikanth is a non-Tamilian (heis a Tamilian because thats where he got the fame - thats where he feels loyal to and thats the society he's embraced as his own). Calling someone Tamil just because they got their fame from there is silly. During the recent Cauvery water issue, many actors brought up Rajni's ambiguous statements, of course his non Tamil roots were thrown over the wall sadly. Regarding the other Tamil pretenders stop speaking Telugu at home and EMBRACE Tamil in all facets of life.
graphic23 Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Calling someone Tamil just because they got their fame from there is silly. During the recent Cauvery water issue, many actors brought up Rajni's ambiguous statements, of course his non Tamil roots were thrown over the wall sadly. Regarding the other Tamil pretenders stop speaking Telugu at home and EMBRACE Tamil in all facets of life. Not just fame. But he made his money there, he has been living there for the 30-35 years. He's had enormous influence on the place. From a bus conductor to Rajnikanth, the 2nd highest paid actor in Asia - and he credits this success to God and to the people who've embraced him as a Tamilian. Whether you like it or not, thats his identity. So when I call myself an Indian, because Hindi is the official language, I should EMBRACE Hindi in all facets of my life ?
Macj Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Not just fame. But he made his money there, he has been living there for the 30-35 years. He's had enormous influence on the place. From a bus conductor to Rajnikanth, the 2nd highest paid actor in Asia - and he credits this success to God and to the people who've embraced him as a Tamilian. Whether you like it or not, thats his identity. So when I call myself an Indian, because Hindi is the official language, I should EMBRACE Hindi in all facets of my life ? Hindi is ONE of the official languages not THE official language.
triam Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Calling someone Tamil just because they got their fame from there is silly. During the recent Cauvery water issue, many actors brought up Rajni's ambiguous statements, of course his non Tamil roots were thrown over the wall sadly. Regarding the other Tamil pretenders stop speaking Telugu at home and EMBRACE Tamil in all facets of life. Dude, so what makes a tamilian? my parents are telugu, I talk with them in telugu but all my friends, even with my brother and cousins I talk tamil. So I cant call myself a tamil?
Recommended Posts