Is swing bowling dying?

[hassan_113]

I know that even non-swing bowlers can reverse it these days, is the cricket world killing off genuine swing bowlers? The likes of Irfan Pathan (ODIs and tests) and Rana Naved (ODIs) were causing strife with the new ball but seem to have lost that ability- maybe it is a lack of form + on flat decks, it is quite risky with bigger and better bats and shorter boundaries to pitch it up and risk being hit. I think the SG ball is decent, the Kookaburra ball is useless after a few overs and for me, the Dukes ball should be used all over the world for it would provide an equal contest between bat and ball. Anyhoo- I know Steyn can swing it at most times and Hilfenhaus is a guy that can apparently swing it, but how many genuine swing bowlers are there in world cricket (and no, I don't consider Gul and Zaheer as genuine swing bowlers, but I haven't seen Zaheer bowl that much for a while)

[rahulrulezz]

Its actually due to the batting-friendly pitches... pitches all over the world are flat as Paranthaas....specially in the subcontinent...also Swing bowlers come effective during day-night matches under the floodlights.... sadly we dont play many day-night matches in the sub-continent ......unfortunately the way its going on, i dont see many youngsters opting for Pace bowling in future....

[hassan_113]

Yep, I know it's due to the pitches too.,...if they're flat, ball doesn't stay shiny on both sides and people just want to reverse it.

[bunny]

Aus: Lee, Hilfenhaus NZ: Southee, (Bond) SL: Malinga Ind: RPS, Sreesanth, PK Pak: Rao Iftikhar? SA: Steyn Eng: Sidebottom, Anderson, Broad, (Jones, Hoggard) WI: Castro? None of these are really great bowlers but almost all are pretty good. So, no I dont think it's dying.

[hassan_113]

Lee barely swings it. When is the last time Malinga played? Sidebottom is not going to do much. Ok, quality swingers then

[The Outsider]

Swing bowling is a high risk, high reward strategy usually because of the need to pitch the ball up. So, if the bowler in question is not accurate enough to prevent runs from bleeding when it is not swinging, he will likely be discarded given the abundance of flat tracks and conditions which don't aid swing much. Come to think of it besides Kapil, Vaas, and Botham I can't recall any other bowler in recent times having a long, successful career. Other swing bowlers like Imran, Akram, Waqar, Donald etc. had either raw pace or reverse swing to fall back upon when conditions did not suit swing. Even Kapil and Vaas had to develop incredible accuracy and cutters to survive and Botham had the luxury of playing in England for more than half his career. Swing as a standalone weapon is just not good enough.

[Anakin]

Needs a little boost from nando perhaps?

[bunny]

Swing bowling is a high risk, high reward strategy usually because of the need to pitch the ball up. So, if the bowler in question is not accurate enough to prevent runs from bleeding when it is not swinging, he will likely be discarded given the abundance of flat tracks and conditions which don't aid swing much. Come to think of it besides Kapil, Vaas, and Botham I can't recall any other bowler in recent times having a long, successful career. Other swing bowlers like Imran, Akram, Waqar, Donald etc. had either raw pace or reverse swing to fall back upon when conditions did not suit swing. Even Kapil and Vaas had to develop incredible accuracy and cutters to survive and Botham had the luxury of playing in England for more than half his career. Swing as a standalone weapon is just not good enough.

I think Hadlee was the greatest exponent of swing bowling. I agree though that it's a high risk high reward kind of strategy. Only if one has a lot of control can they become a great.

[bunny]

Lee barely swings it. When is the last time Malinga played? Sidebottom is not going to do much. Ok, quality swingers then

Lee is an outswinger and that's how he gets most of his wickets. Malinga will be back. Sidebottom is a quality player and he will do a lot. None of these bowlers are in the league of Akram, Waqar, Kapil or Hadlee but they are carrying forward the tradition of swing bowling which is good. Also, the phenomena of swing bowling is pretty recent, imho. I dont think there were too many great swing bowlers way back in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

[The Outsider]

I think Hadlee was the greatest exponent of swing bowling. I agree though that it's a high risk high reward kind of strategy. Only if one has a lot of control can they become a great.

Huh? Hadlee was more of a seam bowler in the McGrath category - yes he could swing the ball like McGrath or Pollock could but his main arsenal was seam movement and bounce.

[bunny]

Huh? Hadlee was more of a seam bowler in the McGrath category - yes he could swing the ball like McGrath or Pollock could but his main arsenal was seam movement and bounce.

Naa i dont think so...He started his career as a seam bowler but in the mid-to-late 80s he was probably the best ever swing bowler.... Edit: After watching the below I have to take my words back. He seems more like a combo bowler...doesnt seem to rely on swing alone but can easily bowl outswingers. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUff5NsfKU]YouTube - RJ Hadlee At The Gabba[/ame]

[The Outsider]

Naa i dont think so...He started his career as a seam bowler but in the mid-to-late 80s he was probably the best ever swing bowler.... Edit: After watching the below I have to take my words back. He seems more like a combo bowler...doesnt seem to rely on swing alone but can easily bowl outswingers. YouTube - RJ Hadlee At The Gabba

Bunny, the video you showed was the Gabba under clouds - there is bound to be swing. I did not say that Hadlee could not swing the ball - he would not have been such a great bowler if he could not, but his strength was the seam movement he could get from apparently placid wickets. I remember a spell from him at Bombay in '87 where he knocked off Kapil and Shastri's stumps with wonderfully pitched deliveries which jagged back on a pretty placid Bombay track. Yes, he could swing the ball - but like Walsh, McGrath, or Pollock that was not his primary weapon.

[King Tendulkar]

Zaheer Khan Thread Fails

[fineleg]

Thanks for the video :thumbs_up: Superb bowling action, smooth, real smooth - RJ Hadlee. Another one with great action was ofcourse M. Holding

[bunny]

Bunny, the video you showed was the Gabba under clouds - there is bound to be swing. I did not say that Hadlee could not swing the ball - he would not have been such a great bowler if he could not, but his strength was the seam movement he could get from apparently placid wickets. I remember a spell from him at Bombay in '87 where he knocked off Kapil and Shastri's stumps with wonderfully pitched deliveries which jagged back on a pretty placid Bombay track. Yes, he could swing the ball - but like Walsh, McGrath, or Pollock that was not his primary weapon.

Yeah after this video I kind of agree...But somehow I have always thought of Hadlee as a swing bowler..Dont know why. maybe it has to do with his action. Wikipedia also says he is a sultan of swing but I am beginning to doubt it.

[bharat297]

How can you not consider Zaheer a genuine swing bowler? If anything he is more of a genuine swing bowler than Steyn because Zaheer moves it both ways whereas Steyn mainly swings it out the right hander. However, in general yes ... i think that goes hand in hand with the decline of Pakistan cricket and the advent of T20s ... which are forcing bowlers to bowl defensively and fire in yorkers or bouncers.

[Show_stopper]

I know for a fact that it is dead in Pakistan:cantstop:

[Show_stopper]

Hadlee's action is a bit like Showsanth's btw..

[hassan_113]

I never said swing bowling has died- the question was it sit dying- please read- u know who you are. Anyhoow, some good responses- but I feel that maybe the likes of Hilfenhaus can do it and keep the tradition up. What has general swing bowling have to with poor state of Pakistan cricket?! I'm a cricket fan first!!!

[Mr. Wicket]

Naa i dont think so...He started his career as a seam bowler but in the mid-to-late 80s he was probably the best ever swing bowler....

No, he started as an out and out quick, then very quickly learned it wasn't the best approach for him (I think injuries played a part in it), cut his pace down and became a master of putting on the right line and length with an immaculate seam. And as shwetabh pointed out, he could swing it when conditions aided him. At the Gabba, with some green on the wicket and cloud cover, he was seaming and swinging it and was close to unplayable at his best.