The Making of the Phoenix - Unheard Stories of Sourav Ganguly!

[suraj]

why wud azharuddhin want to spoil the career of sourov???I dont undst why azharuddhin tried to sabotage his career and why the others dint say anything abt this.. why everyone were against sourov??

Bengali logic for Dada comes very close to Pakistan's victom mentality against India Poor Sourav- the whole world was created to conspire against him and destroy him but dear Dada keeps fighting the evil forces

[saikatmaity]

why wud azharuddhin want to spoil the career of sourov???I dont undst why azharuddhin tried to sabotage his career and why the others dint say anything abt this.. why everyone were against sourov??

India's premier investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation conducted an investigation & published a report. Quoting from the report - "It is clear that Azharuddin contributed substantially towards the expanding bookie/player nexus in Indian cricket. The enquiry has disclosed that he received large sums of money from the betting syndicates to fix matches. There is also evidence which discloses that he roped in other players also to fix matches, which resulted in this malaise making further inroads into Indian cricket. The evidence against Azharuddin, which is discussed next, clearly establishes that he took money from bookies/punters to fix cricket matches and also the fact that the underworld had approached him to fix matches for them." It is a known fact to all cricket historians and ardent followers that, Azhar practiced favourism in the Indian Team. He was never known to have backed newcomers apart from those , who were his "Yes man". A good example would be Venkatpati Raju and Ajay Jadeja who was latter accused on abetting Azhar in the betting nexus. Ofcourse, exceptions were Sachin, Kumble, Kambli and a few others, whom he could not afford to disturb, partly because of their strong performance and rest because of the strong Mumbai & South Selection Lobby behind them. I won't go that far to speculate that Azhar considered Sourav, as a threat to his thriving Betting nexus ... but corrupt people like Azhar are typically opinionistic and ego-centric... he may not have found a Yes-Man in Sourav, and hence decided to dump him, without backing him up for his cricketing talents. And the best way to dump and spoil the career of a newcomer was to malign him in controversies. Everyone was not against Sourav. There were people like Dilip Vensarkar, Ravi Shashtri, and Kapil Dev who were supportive of Sourav. But, in those era, given the type of clout that Azhar enjoyed, perhaps no one found it prudent to back Sourav. After all he was a newcomer .. and his career hardly mattered to others.

[saikatmaity]

Bengali logic for Dada comes very close to Pakistan's victom mentality against India Poor Sourav- the whole world was created to conspire against him and destroy him but dear Dada keeps fighting the evil forces

Some comments are worth acknowledging ... some are worth debating .. but some are worth ignoring .. as they fall in the category of barking! "Bhow Bhow"... is the best answer one can give to you. :haha:

[suraj]

Some comments are worth acknowledging ... some are worth debating .. but some are worth ignoring .. as they fall in the category of barking! "Bhow Bhow"... is the best answer one can give to you. :haha:

Bhow Bhow babu moshai- Bengali for "I have no answer"? Azhar the scum betrayed India but Dada fans somehow turn it into a conspiracy against Dada and write legendary stories about him; Wah!! Ami tomhar ke balo bhashi :two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up: BTW are dada's failed dives, obstructing the fielder, getting hit in the nuts going to be included in these legendary stories:--D:--D

[saikatmaity]

Bhow Bhow babu moshai- Bengali for "I have no answer"? Azhar the scum betrayed India but Dada fans somehow turn it into a conspiracy against Dada and write legendary stories about him; Wah!! Ami tomhar ke balo bhashi :two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up: BTW are dada's failed dives, obstructing the fielder, getting hit in the nuts going to be included in these legendary stories:--D:--D

If you can get out of your regional innuendos.. we can surely have a meaningful debate ... else .. I am convinced .. that "bhow bhow" is the only language that u understand.

[Fontaine]

It is a known fact to all cricket historians and ardent followers that, Azhar practiced favourism in the Indian Team. He was never known to have backed newcomers apart from those , who were his "Yes man". A good example would be Venkatpati Raju and Ajay Jadeja who was latter accused on abetting Azhar in the betting nexus. Ofcourse, exceptions were Sachin, Kumble, Kambli and a few others, whom he could not afford to disturb, partly because of their strong performance and rest because of the strong Mumbai & South Selection Lobby behind them. I won't go that far to speculate that Azhar considered Sourav, as a threat to his thriving Betting nexus ... but corrupt people like Azhar are typically opinionistic and ego-centric... he may not have found a Yes-Man in Sourav, and hence decided to dump him, without backing him up for his cricketing talents. And the best way to dump and spoil the career of a newcomer was to malign him in controversies.

Like I thought, it's nothing more than your personal opinion. But I do find it interesting though, that Ganguly wasn't good enough in his performances to be an automatic selection like Kambli, Kumble, others who were coming into the side.

[saikatmaity]

Like I thought, it's nothing more than your personal opinion. But I do find it interesting though, that Ganguly wasn't good enough in his performances to be an automatic selection like Kambli, Kumble, others who were coming into the side.

Fontaine, it is more of a personal and logical inference than an opinion. In absence of evidence I would not certainly expect all to share the same view. That is perfectly fine. Having said that, it is also a fact that Sachin was way apart in his performance and genius. So he is certainly not in the reference we are speaking of. He is above all politics. But, given the likes of Kumble and Kambli, with all due respect to their ability, Ganguly falls in the same league..may be above Kambli and at par with Kumble. The point here is that he wasn't given a fair chance to prove himself .. in the Australian tour. Bengal lobby has always been a weak lobby unlike a Mumbai or a South lobby. This made him an easy target for victimisation..till the Jagmohan Dalmiya era came. Again, these all are inferences and not evidence based facts .. as there are no documented evidences of the same. In my blog, I am only trying to bring out the fighting spirit of Ganguly is, inspite all odds. He is undoubtedly the first Indian captain who metamorphosed the Indian cricket into a fighting lot that they aretoday. Newcomers whom Ganguly backed, like Bhajji, Yuvraj and Zaheer have acknowledged this fact a lot of times in various interviews.

[Anakin]

Bengali logic for Dada comes very close to Pakistan's victom mentality against India Poor Sourav- the whole world was created to conspire against him and destroy him but dear Dada keeps fighting the evil forces

Let's just say you're totally wrong. I don't know if Azhar intentionally treated SCG the way he did, but what was done to young SCG was very nasty.

[Fontaine]

Fontaine, it is more of a personal and logical inference than an opinion. In absence of evidence I would not certainly expect all to share the same view. That is perfectly fine. Having said that, it is also a fact that Sachin was way apart in his performance and genius. So he is certainly not in the reference we are speaking of. He is above all politics. But, given the likes of Kumble and Kambli, with all due respect to their ability, Ganguly falls in the same league..may be above Kambli and at par with Kumble. The point here is that he wasn't given a fair chance to prove himself .. in the Australian tour. Bengal lobby has always been a weak lobby unlike a Mumbai or a South lobby. This made him an easy target for victimisation..till the Jagmohan Dalmiya era came. Again, these all are inferences and not evidence based facts .. as there are no documented evidences of the same. In my blog, I am only trying to bring out the fighting spirit of Ganguly is, inspite all odds. He is undoubtedly the first Indian captain who metamorphosed the Indian cricket into a fighting lot that they aretoday. Newcomers whom Ganguly backed, like Bhajji, Yuvraj and Zaheer have acknowledged this fact a lot of times in various interviews.

1. In the absence of evidence what you have is a hypothesis at best which is just a fancy way of saying opinion. 2. Yes Ganguly has that fighting spirit, but what good cricketer doesn't? In all seriousness, isn't this kind of getting a bit old and tired? Every time there's a thread/story about Ganguly we hear the same old rehashed stuff about "fighting spirit" etc etc. So I'm forced to ask you what good cricketer doesn't have a fighting spirit? From Zaheer coming back strong after being dropped and openly criticized, to Flintoff giving his heart and soul every time he comes back from injury, to Dravid fighting hard to overcome his long slump, every single good cricketer has faced some adversity and overcome it. The constant harping on and on about it with Ganguly makes it seem like he has some sort of monopoly over that quality when the fact is he is among hundreds if not thousands of cricketers who share that ability. And to be honest it just sounds pretty mundane to repeat the same thing about him again and again. Now, if you had some sort of honest critique of his abilities like his very good timing, leadership quality to his poor fielding, running between wickets, and athleticism then that would be more refreshing than the same old same old fighting qualities etc etc.

[suraj]

1. In the absence of evidence what you have is a hypothesis at best which is just a fancy way of saying opinion. 2. Yes Ganguly has that fighting spirit, but what good cricketer doesn't? In all seriousness, isn't this kind of getting a bit old and tired? Every time there's a thread/story about Ganguly we hear the same old rehashed stuff about "fighting spirit" etc etc. So I'm forced to ask you what good cricketer doesn't have a fighting spirit? From Zaheer coming back strong after being dropped and openly criticized, to Flintoff giving his heart and soul every time he comes back from injury, to Dravid fighting hard to overcome his long slump, every single good cricketer has faced some adversity and overcome it. The constant harping on and on about it with Ganguly makes it seem like he has some sort of monopoly over that quality when the fact is he is among hundreds if not thousands of cricketers who share that ability. And to be honest it just sounds pretty mundane to repeat the same thing about him again and again. Now, if you had some sort of honest critique of his abilities like his very good timing, leadership quality to his poor fielding, running between wickets, and athleticism then that would be more refreshing than the same old same old fighting qualities etc etc.

:two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up:

[Mr. Wicket]

Hats off, Fontaine. That whole thing about fighting spirit is such a tired cliche, and there are far more moving and incredible examples out there, like Waugh fighting through a torn calf muscle to score a century at the Oval on one leg, Tendulkar playing a World Cup with a broken bone in his foot, or Shane Bond coming back to bowl after back reconstruction. Such a shame that people harp on about this rather than paying attention to what really made Ganguly so outstanding; his excellent leadership and ability to pick and back young players, his timing and some of those amazing off-side shots like charging quick bowlers and launching them over cover points for sixes.

[suraj]

Hats off, Fontaine. That whole thing about fighting spirit is such a tired cliche, and there are far more moving and incredible examples out there, like Waugh fighting through a torn calf muscle to score a century at the Oval on one leg, Tendulkar playing a World Cup with a broken bone in his foot, or Shane Bond coming back to bowl after back reconstruction. Such a shame that people harp on about this rather than paying attention to what really made Ganguly so outstanding; his excellent leadership and ability to pick and back young players, his timing and some of those amazing off-side shots like charging quick bowlers and launching them over cover points for sixes.

Add to that Kumble playing with abroken jaw, Smith playing with a broken hand,Mohinder Amarnath's comebacks. Dean Jones' fighting knock while puking continously etc etc

[Mr. Wicket]

Indeed. The list goes on and on as I said. Those are just a few top of the head examples. Fighting spirit has become a more irritating cliche than corridor of uncertainty.

[saikatmaity]

1. In the absence of evidence what you have is a hypothesis at best which is just a fancy way of saying opinion.

Fontaine reading your post, I may form an opinion that you are anti-ganguly. But that would be incorrect if I use logical inference. I see that you have written "17 Kms in 52 mins"... what can one travel 17 Kms in 52 mins... well probably the answer is a "Half-Marathon runner"... it would then be a logical inference that you are a sportsman yourself .. who beleives only in performance and milestones like "17 Kms in 52 mins" .. perhaps that is the reason why you are opining that harping on "Fighting Spirit" and all such adjectives .. are not really called for a sportsperson .. but what matters are his achievements .. See I may be wrong in my inference ... but .. the point i am trying to drive home is the essential difference between "an opinion" and "an inference". I reiterate that, whatever I wrote about Azhar is an inference (correct or incorrect is again an logical contest), but certainly NOT an opinion

2. Yes Ganguly has that fighting spirit' date=' but what good cricketer doesn't? [/quote'] You are absolutely right! All good sportsmen, rather all successful people in their own sphere of life has something essential called "fighting spirit". If I am to describe the fabulous four of Indian cricket, who had been the pillars for over a decade, it would be like this: Sachin Tendulkar: A gifted genius, who right from his debut till today has been exhibiting an rare display of multi-faceted talent. Rahul Dravid: Epitomises hard work and discipline. His reputation of being "The Wall" can be attributed to the perfect discipline and hard work that Rahul Dravid stands for right from childhood till today. But one also remembers how inspite of hearing about his father's illness, Rahul played the crutial match against SA, and had hit Alan Donald straight for a six. Anil Kumble: Stands for fighting attitude and committment. With a broke jaw he took on the W.I. Sourav Ganguly: A flamboyant batsman and the greatest Indian captain ever, who can be attributed for building a vibrant and winning Indian team which took on the best on their own home turfs. On a personal front, he had risen and returned again and again when all others had written him off. By praising Sourav's never say die spirit, am I trying to prove that he is above the others? If you think that way .. I am afraid you are miserably wrong. All I am trying to delve into, is what went through him during his formative years, which had made him what he is today... I can write about Sourav, coz i have information about him .. If I could do the same for Dhoni or Kumble I would have done it as zealously as I am doing it for Sourav. If I correctly infer that you are a Marathon runner, and instead harping on your timing .. I speak about the inspirations in your life which, pushes you always to run that extra mile ... will it be cliched? Its how you read into stories is what matters. With a closed and biased mind .. or with a free mind! :hatsoff:

[saikatmaity]

I do appreciate all of your comments, which may differ, but certainly fuels a healthy debate. Thank you for showing interest. For the interested (and uninterested) readers .. I am posting the latest post on Sourav from my Blog on this forum .. this one is the penultimate in series.

[saikatmaity]

The Metamorphosis Days went by...so did months...and two years passed by. During, these two years Sourav had not known anything beyond the Gymnasium and cricket ground. He was focussed on his goal...and was expending all his energy to hone his cricketing skills. But his mind wasn’t at peace. Often the Australian tour haunted him, making him restless, and desperate. He couldn’t but free his mind. It was still burdened with scepticism. In 1994 Sourav went to England to play the County Cricket. He got a chance to play in the minor county, for Brondsberir. He had been here before as a member of the Kailash Ghatani team. He was at school that time. Those days seemed golden to him. The present however was different. What was missing...he wondered sometimes? It was perhaps happiness. In such a time Sourav met Mike Stuart. Mike’s passion was cricket, and profession – psychology. Mike knew that something very heavy was blocking Sourav’s way...which he was not able to remove himself. He needed Mike’s help. One day Mike Stuart told Sourav, “Enjoy the game of cricket, my dear boy” Sourav, looked at him surprised. Mike smiled and replied, “You seem surprised, aren’t you? Look, your talent is beyond all doubts. The wait is only for an opportunity. Remember, to settle all scores when you get that opportunity.” Sourav, remembered Arun Lal. He had said the same thing. Interactions with Mike Stuart brought about a sea change in Sourav’s state of mind. He understood that the battle must be won in the mind before it can be won on field. And the key to it is to relax, and not be desperate. Chance will surely come one day, to settle all scores. However it is more important is to enjoy the game, than settle scores. Pressure of expectations, are part and parcel of every sphere of life. But, if one doesn’t enjoy what one is doing, he is surely too burn out. The change that Mike Stuart could bring about in Sourav can be best explained by another incident in his life. He was playing club match at Kolkata. Sourav was fielding in the deep. Suddenly someone from the spectator threw an orange at him. The orange hit him and fell on the ground. Sourav was surprised and hurt ... but now he knew how to answer back better! He juggled the orange with his feet and like a football...lifted it on to his thighs ... then lobbed it up and caught it. He then peeled it, and ate it up! Seeing the Maradona, feat, the gallery burst into applause. This was a different Sourav! Another two years had passed by. It was 1996, and the selection were about to meet for finalizing the Test Sqaud for England. Sambaran Banerjee, the ex-Bengal Ranji team captain had become the selector of eastern zone by now. Sambaran Banerjee was determined to put Sourav back in the Test squad. He knew that he would face stiff resistance from Md. Azharuddin. After all Azhar had managed to do away with him 4 years back, and under no circumstances he would accept his resurrection. Sambaran Banerjee did all the necessary ground work. He took the advantage of the quota system of selection. It was simple deal with a majority of the selectors ... you back my candidate and I back yours! Inspite of Azhar’s steep resistance, Sambaran got Sourav in the initial selected list of players. However, the resistance was not all over. Few people know that he was almost being dropped after his name was initially finalized by the selectors for the trip! There was a dispute among some selectors trying to push a player but there was no vacancy. Some selectors then suggested that Sourav’s name be struck off to accommodate this player. It was then BCCI president Jagmohan Dalmiya intervened and threatened to adjourn the meeting. The final list of players for the England tour of 1996, had one new name – Sourav Chandidas Ganguly. B->

[Fontaine]

Fontaine reading your post' date=' I may form an [b']opinion that you are anti-ganguly. But that would be incorrect if I use logical inference. I see that you have written "17 Kms in 52 mins"... what can one travel 17 Kms in 52 mins... well probably the answer is a "Half-Marathon runner"... it would then be a logical inference that you are a sportsman yourself .. who beleives only in performance and milestones like "17 Kms in 52 mins" .. perhaps that is the reason why you are opining that harping on "Fighting Spirit" and all such adjectives .. are not really called for a sportsperson .. but what matters are his achievements .. See I may be wrong in my inference ... but .. the point i am trying to drive home is the essential difference between "an opinion" and "an inference". I reiterate that, whatever I wrote about Azhar is an inference (correct or incorrect is again an logical contest), but certainly NOT an opinion

This thread isn't really about Fontaine the sportsman though.

By praising Sourav's never say die spirit, am I trying to prove that he is above the others? If you think that way .. I am afraid you are miserably wrong. All I am trying to delve into, is what went through him during his formative years, which had made him what he is today... I can write about Sourav, coz i have information about him .. If I could do the same for Dhoni or Kumble I would have done it as zealously as I am doing it for Sourav. If I correctly infer that you are a Marathon runner, and instead harping on your timing .. I speak about the inspirations in your life which, pushes you always to run that extra mile ... will it be cliched? Its how you read into stories is what matters. With a closed and biased mind .. or with a free mind! :hatsoff:

Cliche: A cliché (from French, pronounced [kli'ʃeɪ]), or cliche, is a saying, expression, or idea which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning, rendering it a stereotype, especially when at some earlier time it was considered distinctively meaningful or novel. In just a few posts, you've mentioned "fight/er" or "fighting spirit" about Ganguly at least 9 times by my count independantly (seperate to posts that I specifically called it tired and overused and you responded). I made my point. It's another cliche in a world of cliches used to describe cricketers when you don't have anything original to add.

[King]

Kapil Dev was the ***** of the highest order. Don't know about Sourav but he definitely did trouble Kumble with some really harsh comments on Kumble's tour to England. Kumble has never ever spoken about it or did it make it to the media. I won't be surprised if Kapil Dev had rubbed Sourav the wrong way. Make no mistake Kapil Dev is one of "The best" players but as a person he is not highly regarded. Azhar on the other hand wasn't that bad, I haven't heard him give too much of a hard time to younger ones. Under him did the likes of Tendulkar, Anil and Srinath found their feet in international cricket. Unfortunately he ended up match fixing and links with the mafia. When it comes to Sourav it has to be said even littlest of the things get blown away.

[Lord]

Kapil Dev was the ***** of the highest order. Don't know about Sourav but he definitely did trouble Kumble with some really harsh comments on Kumble's tour to England. Kumble has never ever spoken about it or did it make it to the media. I won't be surprised if Kapil Dev had rubbed Sourav the wrong way. Make no mistake Kapil Dev is one of "The best" players but as a person he is not highly regarded. Azhar on the other hand wasn't that bad, I haven't heard him give too much of a hard time to younger ones. Under him did the likes of Tendulkar, Anil and Srinath found their feet in international cricket. Unfortunately he ended up match fixing and links with the mafia. When it comes to Sourav it has to be said even littlest of the things get blown away.

what were they?can u elaborate

[suraj]

Kapil Dev was the ***** of the highest order. Don't know about Sourav but he definitely did trouble Kumble with some really harsh comments on Kumble's tour to England. Kumble has never ever spoken about it or did it make it to the media. I won't be surprised if Kapil Dev had rubbed Sourav the wrong way. Make no mistake Kapil Dev is one of "The best" players but as a person he is not highly regarded. Azhar on the other hand wasn't that bad, I haven't heard him give too much of a hard time to younger ones. Under him did the likes of Tendulkar, Anil and Srinath found their feet in international cricket. Unfortunately he ended up match fixing and links with the mafia. When it comes to Sourav it has to be said even littlest of the things get blown away.

King, Not to nitpick but do you really think Tendulkar needed anyone in the world to find his feet??