Has McGrath ever been dominated?

[Anakin]

How many of those McGrath dismissals of SRT were gifts? Not to take anything away from McGrath, but that 99 tour was a disaster from many povs, including umpiring.

[graphic23]

How many of those McGrath dismissals of SRT were gifts? Not to take anything away from McGrath' date=' but that 99 tour was a disaster from many povs, including umpiring.[/quote'] Can't remember too many. McGrath was just very successful in exploiting that weakness in Sachin. Pollock was another one - and even Donald to a certain extent, but both these guys were also under some heavy attack by Sachin.

[graphic23]

Although, if we're talking one off here, the Diana charity match was one where he was a bit better against McGrath. But he was regularly beaten by Srinath though.

[flamy]

flamy' date=' have you ever been dominated?[/quote'] ya. in spread betting :((

[Mr. Wicket]

How many of those McGrath dismissals of SRT were gifts? Not to take anything away from McGrath' date=' but that 99 tour was a disaster from many povs, including umpiring.[/quote'] McGrath has dismissed SRT in tests 6 times (in 9 games the two have crossed paths). This is a run down of the dismissals: - Delhi 96 - bowled. No gift there. 1/1 legit dismissals - Adelaide 99 - LBW (SBW). Nuff said. 1/2 - Sydney 00 - LBW, fair dismissal to an indipper that beat Tendulkar for movement. FWIW, Tendulkar had hit 3 fours and a two previously that over before Pidge removed him with a slight change of pace/movement. 2/3 - Mumbai 01 - caught behind, genuine nick. 3/4 - Kolkata 01 - LBW playing across the line, genuine dismissal. 4/5 - Nagpur 04 - beaten by bounce; McGrath was mixing up regular seam and cross-seam and Tendulkar got one high on the shoulder and edged it to Martyn. Very clearly out. 5/6. The dodgy decisions SRT got on his Australia tours weren't against McGrath that often. There was a very iffy bat-pad dismissal off Warne in the 99/00 series, as well as a marginal LBW there. And in the 03/04 tour the really BS dismissal was the LBW given to Gillespie. The umpiring that series was very poor - but McGrath only benefited once v. Tendulkar (a couple of times vs. other batsmen, and other bowlers have benefited v. Tendulkar more), and there's very little that can be argued re. his other wickets.

[Dhondy]

In ODI cricket' date=' I remember Moin Khan absolutely dismantling him at Headingley in the 1999 World Cup- on no other occasion have I ever seen that happen to McGrath.[/quote'] Dismantling is what Australia did to your side in the finals. Don't use grown up words. This thread is talking about Test cricket. When batsmen like Lara and Sachin couldn't live with McGrath, it is churlish to mention people whose claim to fame were a few cross batted hoicks in an inconsequential league fixture, played in a form of the game that often reduces bowlers to whipping boys.

[hassan_113]

Dismantling is what Australia did to your side in the finals. Don't use grown up words. This thread is talking about Test cricket. When batsmen like Lara and Sachin couldn't live with McGrath, it is churlish to mention people whose claim to fame were a few cross batted hoicks in an inconsequential league fixture, played in a form of the game that often reduces bowlers to whipping boys.

Sorry man. Chill! I just looked at the title. In tests I haven't seen that. P.S. at that time of the tournament, it was batters that were struggling in England in May. I am aware of Pak 132 ao :( I am also astonished by your ridiculous generalisation- 'you lot.' Maybe the same can be said about a certain proportion of India fans but I don't generalise! I am a fan of cricket and watch cricket matches beyond Pakistan.....I have attended an Ashes match, Eng v WI, Eng v SL, Eng v India. All quality tests at Edgbaston, so please...do not try to show I'm a national fan first and foremost. McGrath has not really been owned in tests.

[Shehezaada]

That chart posted by Tapioca demolishes a lot of myths, doesn't it. And the list isn't even correct. Sachin- 9 Tests, 17 innings against the great bowler, 88 runs scored off him, dismissed 6 times (not 5). Dominance? Only one person was dominating there, and it wasn't Sachin. McGrath got him 5 times in the first 6 Tests alone, before Sachin figured out that this was one battle he wasn't going to win. His first instinct when McGrath came into the attack was to play him out and score off the others. He never looked to attack McGrath in Tests. People try to obfuscate McGrath's utter dominance of Sachin by bringing in ODIs. Razzaq's ODI cameo gets a mention as well. Non-sequitor. There is no bowler in the history of the game who didn't get clobbered for a few boundaries in pyjama cricket. You don't put chalk on your pizza, do you? I've seen Lara and Vaughan attack McGrath, really attack him. But they didn't get away scot free, as Tapioca's list shows. At the end of his career, McGrath had the measure of the very best batsmen of his era, a staggering 50% of his dismissals comprising top order bats (Donald 49%, Ambrose 47%). Nobody in the history of the game has done better. Which is why, to me, he is the best ever. I once posted a chart of his career rankings, a chart that showed that his dominance of fellow bowlers, particularly quicks, was truly Bradmanesque.

I think your giving way too much importance to stats. You have to look at the match situations as well in which Tendulkar was required to face upto McGrath. Was he ever allowed the freedom to attack McGrath at will? Not really, most of the times when Tendulkar was out there facing McGrath it was with 2 down with not many on the board. You say it in your post - Tendulkar always looked to keep McGrath at bay rather then hit him out of the attack. Obviously. Consider McGrath's plan of attack. It's very simple...off stump on a good length, and again, and again, and again. Tendulkar, especially in Australia in 99, played out numerous maiden overs against McGrath just leaving them outside off..forcing him to come closer. Then he would reach the length and respond with the drive, or cut. Dominance to me is when you have a certain phobia about playing a bowler. When you look fine against the others but turn into a kitten as soon as the dominating bowler comes on to bowl. Tendulkar has NEVER dominated McGrath, but McGrath has never dominated Tendulkar either. In my mind McGrath put it best, 50-50, McGrath the edge at his home, Tendulkar the edge in his.

[Shehezaada]

Dismantling is what Australia did to your side in the finals. Don't use grown up words. This thread is talking about Test cricket. When batsmen like Lara and Sachin couldn't live with McGrath, it is churlish to mention people whose claim to fame were a few cross batted hoicks in an inconsequential league fixture, played in a form of the game that often reduces bowlers to whipping boys. Do you lot ever see anything beyond your own overrated side?

Why exclude ODI cricket? It's also a form of cricket. And your point about if Lara and Sachin couldn't then how could Moin Khan doesn't make any sense. Often what's extremely easy for the masters is hard for us, and sometimes what's very easy for us is hard for the masters. Tendulkar had trouble with Nash, Razzaq, and some other medium pacer. Going by your logic, if Tendulkar can't do it against these trundlers, what chance does he have against the best? Similarly Michael Jordan often had problems being guarded by a guy named Brad Dawkins in college. He's currently on a farm in North Carolina. But he was the best ever. Btw Hassan, awesome innings by Moin that really sealed the deal along with Inzamam. Too bad they choked (or match fixed, guess we'll never know) in the final.

[Rajiv]

Don't forget one of the wicket was "head before wicket"

[Mr. Wicket]

I called it Shoulder before wicket, Rajiv. That's the Adelaide 00 one I listed as 'SBW'. Not a decision I have much regard for.

[Dhondy]

Tendulkar had trouble with Nash, Razzaq, and some other medium pacer. Going by your logic, if Tendulkar can't do it against these trundlers, what chance does he have against the best?

That argument is out of kilter. Translated to McGrath- Moin, it means that if McGrath couldn't dominate Moin, what chance did he have against Lara-Sachin? I said the exact opposite thing. BTW, Shehzaada, even the most one-eyed of fans would struggle to justify 88 runs off 17 innings, dismissed 6 times as a 50-50. Maybe I was being unfair to Hassan. Even if we were to consider ODIs, I'd struggle to consider 31 runs scored in one innings as evidence that a batsman dominated a bowler. That judgement should be based on career stats.

[DomainK]

BTW...I remember once Tendulkar was asked who were the most difficult bowlers to play and he had given three most unusual names: Dion Nash, Abdur Razzaq and Hansie Cronje

[Dhondy]

And Hassan, apologies for generalising. I've edited my post. Put it down to the male equivalent of hot flushes.

[f.b.m]

Dood, check yr PMs. Just sent you a vid of Vaughan in his golden prime.

pls dood.

[Shehezaada]

That argument is out of kilter. Translated to McGrath- Moin, it means that if McGrath couldn't dominate Moin, what chance did he have against Lara-Sachin? I said the exact opposite thing. BTW, Shehzaada, even the most one-eyed of fans would struggle to justify 88 runs off 17 innings, dismissed 6 times as a 50-50. Maybe I was being unfair to Hassan. Even if we were to consider ODIs, I'd struggle to consider 31 runs scored in one innings as evidence that a batsman dominated a bowler. That judgement should be based on career stats.

the general point is that you can't say that if X can't play Y, then what chance does ABC have? Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, and sometimes even masters have difficulty with someone that lesser batsmen have no problem with. 88 runs in 17 innings? Have you watched the games in which Tendulkar played McGrath? His job was to make sure that McGrath didn't break through quickly. So he couldn't afford to go after him and that's why the runs scored against McGrath are low. Look at the match situations and stats TOGETHER.

[hassan_113]

No problem Dhondy :-)

[Dhondy]

Look at the match situations and stats TOGETHER.

Doesn't wash. How did Lara & Vaughan flay McGrath while their teams were getting hammered? And was the match situation any different when Sachin scored off Fleming or Warne? Stop sitting on the fence, and give credit where it's due.

[Mr. Wicket]

Stop sitting on the fence' date=' and give credit where it's due.[/quote'] Is he sitting on the fence or trying to hang from it? :winky:

[Mr. Wicket]

Have you watched the games in which Tendulkar played McGrath? His job was to make sure that McGrath didn't break through quickly. So he couldn't afford to go after him and that's why the runs scored against McGrath are low. Look at the match situations and stats TOGETHER.

I'm guessing you haven't watched much of those games. Tendulkar didn't go after him because he 'couldn't afford to', he didn't go after him because McGrath's precision in bowling meant he never had that opportunity. Fleming, Warne, Gillespie, etc were all serious wicket-taking threats. Tendulkar didn't buckle down to ensure they didn't break through; he went after all of them. When he had the chances to attack McGrath, he also did it - but most of the time McGrath's bowling clipped his wings and left him unable to really dominate.