Ashes 2009

[Guest Gunner]

Tosh we are miles better and have been for last decade. Head to Head against oz in last decade and we have better record inb series wins

You must be nuts. What are you talking about? Australia - India tests head to head is 35-18 in favours of the ozzies. They have won quite a few series against us. Your post is mind numbing.

[Chandan]

You must be nuts. What are you talking about? Australia - India tests head to head is 35-18 in favours of the ozzies. They have won quite a few series against us. Your post is mind numbing.

But Gunner, we've to talk what happened in last one decade, not something which happened 50 years back. In past one decade, ie since Australia started visiting India and Border Gavaskar trophy was launched: '96 : 1-0 India in India '98 : 2-1 India in India '99-00: 3-0 Australia in Australia '01 : 2-1 India in India '02-03: 1-1 in Australia '04 : 2-1 Australia in India 07-08 :2-1 Australia in India 08 :2-0 India in India So as I see, both India and Australia have failed to win one home series, apart from which the performance has been pretty par in the bilateral series. Of course Australia has done miles better when playing with other countries, but while playing together, the series' are evenly fought! .

[MUMBAISKIPPER]

But Gunner, we've to talk what happened in last one decade, not something which happened 50 years back. In past one decade, ie since Australia started visiting India and Border Gavaskar trophy was launched: '96 : 1-0 India in India '98 : 2-1 India in India '99-00: 3-0 Australia in Australia '01 : 2-1 India in India '02-03: 1-1 in Australia '04 : 2-1 Australia in India 07-08 :2-1 Australia in India 08 :2-0 India in India So as I see, both India and Australia have failed to win one home series, apart from which the performance has been pretty par in the bilateral series. Of course Australia has done miles better when playing with other countries, but while playing together, the series' are evenly fought! .

why do u take gunner's posts seriously?just Ignore them

[Desi Cartman]

why do u take gunner's posts seriously?just Ignore them..

take it easy and edit your post ..

[King Tendulkar]

You must be nuts. What are you talking about? Australia - India tests head to head is 35-18 in favours of the ozzies. They have won quite a few series against us. Your post is mind numbing.

Well check this out. Over the last 12 years we are clearly better then them, even when they were in their pomp with Mcragth, Warne, Waughs etc etc http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=128625

[Guest Gunner]

But Gunner, we've to talk what happened in last one decade, not something which happened 50 years back. In past one decade, ie since Australia started visiting India and Border Gavaskar trophy was launched: '96 : 1-0 India in India '98 : 2-1 India in India '99-00: 3-0 Australia in Australia '01 : 2-1 India in India '02-03: 1-1 in Australia '04 : 2-1 Australia in India 07-08 :2-1 Australia in India 08 :2-0 India in India So as I see, both India and Australia have failed to win one home series, apart from which the performance has been pretty par in the bilateral series. Of course Australia has done miles better when playing with other countries, but while playing together, the series' are evenly fought! .

Well check this out. Over the last 12 years we are clearly better then them, even when they were in their pomp with Mcragth, Warne, Waughs etc etc http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=128625

I totally agree with the assessment you guys have regarding the last 12 years, however we should also consider the overall win-loss record between the two countries. We have never beaten Australia at their home in a series, this is a major deficiency in ôur record. The Australian team was at its weakest in the 1978-79 home series against India and we still managed to lose 2-3 albeit the result could have been easily 4-1 in India's favour. The point being even at their weakest they defended their home record, we have been unable to do so. As late as 2005 we lost a home series to them. I give the Indian team credit for being the biggest rival among all countries to Australia at their peak however we just cannot claim we are better than Oz, this is simply not true. I would agree that we are playing better cricket than Australia when we record a series win down under. Till that moment we can claim to be serious rivals but not better than them.

[Anakin]

That's just absurd dude. You can not be better than a team just by winning a series away. Zimboks are better than pak by that logic, although it's a close contest even now. And how does the 50-80s affect what's been going on in the recent past. BTW, the last series was robbed by ****nor and co. as usual.

[Guest Gunner]

That's just absurd dude. You can not be better than a team just by winning a series away. Zimboks are better than pak by that logic, although it's a close contest even now. And how does the 50-80s affect what's been going on in the recent past. BTW, the last series was robbed by ****nor and co. as usual.

The point was not that we become a better team just by beating some one on their homeground by fluke once. The point is we have never won a series in Australia despite 60 years of cricketing relations, hence the claim of being better rings a bit hollow when the opposition has accomplished that a few times. Secondly, we were not able to bat a little less than 85 overs on the last day at Sydney despite the umpiring **** ups et al. I know that I will draw a lot of flak for saying this but it is also a fact. And there was simply no way we would have won that series even if the Sydney test was a draw. We came closest to beating Oz in 1978-79 and again in 2003-04 and they successfully defended both times.

[Anakin]

The point was not that we become a better team just by beating some one on their homeground by fluke once. The point is we have never won a series in Australia despite 60 years of cricketing relations, hence the claim of being better rings a bit hollow when the opposition has accomplished that a few times. Secondly, we were not able to bat a little less than 85 overs on the last day at Sydney despite the umpiring **** ups et al. I know that I will draw a lot of flak for saying this but it is also a fact. And there was simply no way we would have won that series even if the Sydney test was a draw. We came closest to beating Oz in 1978-79 and again in 2003-04 and they successfully defended both times.

So you can't say one team is better than the other based on recent past? You have to drag the whole history with you? And yes, you can't survive 50 overs even when you have as many ****ups that happened in that test. How many do you think the OZs would've survived if the decisions were reversed? Who do you think would've won if even half the mistakes were avoided?

[Guest Gunner]

So you can't say one team is better than the other based on recent past? You have to drag the whole history with you?

You have to see anything comparable in entirety and not just take the portion you like. Even going by your argument, the head to head for the last 13 years is 10 each and in that time Oz beat us in our backyard once we couldn't accomplish the reverse. Yes we gave them a real run for their money but we were not better. And I am mighty proud of this accomplishement of the Indian team when everyone else was utterly humiliated.

And yes' date=' you can't survive 50 overs even when you have as many ****ups that happened in that test. How many do you think the OZs would've survived if the decisions were reversed? [b']Who do you think would've won if even half the mistakes were avoided?

Come on, the last 3 wkts to clarke were a gift, how can you not see that. Not us, we were not looking to win that game.

[The Outsider]

^ Gunner - Pakistan has a decisively better record than India in head to head in Tests and ODIs. Which is the better team at present?

[Guest Gunner]

^ Gunner - Pakistan has a decisively better record than India in head to head in Tests and ODIs. Which is the better team at present?

India are but that is an entirely different argument, the analogy is not accurate. We beat the hell out of Pakistan over the last few years, home and away. This is simply not the case with the Ozzies. Can you please tell me exactly how you conclude we are a better team than Oz?

[The Outsider]

In Tests I think we still are, we have been more consistent in beating India. If you win the next series against us, then ok maybe India are better. Until that happens.. Australia > India (in tests) India > Australia (one days and 20-20s) Although Australia can never get any rythm in one dayers because we keep messing around with the line up. I dont get why guys like Hughes and Siddle aren't in the team.

I am talking about the post McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist Australia. I feel India is a better and definitely more balanced team than Australia. But yeah, the results over the next couple of years will make it clearer. On one thing we agree, they are not rubbish.

[Guest Gunner]

I am talking about the post McGrath' date=' Warne, Gilchrist Australia. I feel India is a better and definitely more balanced team than Australia. But yeah, the results over the next couple of years will make it clearer. On one thing we agree, they are not rubbish.[/quote'] The real challenge in my opinion is the next Border-Gavaskar trophy, this will tell us all we need to know. SRT, RSD will be retired by then. The only one remaining will be VVS from our great middle order. We will still have a great opening pair but we will need a strong No.3 and 4 replacement. Finally we will have to really strengthen our bowling further.

[The Outsider]

India are but that is an entirely different argument, the analogy is not accurate. We beat the hell out of Pakistan over the last few years, home and away. This is simply not the case with the Ozzies. Can you please tell me exactly how you conclude we are a better team than Oz?

We lost 1-2 in Australia and beat them 2-0 when they toured us. Australia lost a home series to South Africa, we drew at home against them. Australia won in South Africa, we lost 1-2. If we consider these to be the top international test teams(on which there can be little debate), India : W-5 L-5(Home and Away against Aus and SA) Aus : W-5 L-6(Home and Away against Ind and SA) SA : W-6 L-5(Home and Away against Aus and Ind) All three teams are pretty close together - SA have a slight but distinct edge. I would say India is a better team than Australia simply because the Australian attack is completely unbalanced without a spinner to speak off. EDIT : Had Australia's numbers wrong - they have the poorest record amongst the three.

[The Outsider]

The real challenge in my opinion is the next Border-Gavaskar trophy' date=' this will tell us all we need to know. SRT, RSD will be retired by then. The only one remaining will be VVS from our great middle order. We will still have a great opening pair but we will need a strong No.3 and 4 replacement. Finally we will have to really strengthen our bowling further.[/quote'] That's way into the future - the discussion is about how the sides are currently placed and ranked. Dravid and Tendulkar are very much part of the current set up.

[Chandan]

Now can we take the discussion back to England vs Australia? Who is stronger? If Pietersen is ruled out in any of the matches, will England be thrashed by an inning? If Flintoff comes back (as the signs are encouraging) will England attack be more potent than that of Australia as they have Swann and also Pasnesar in their bowling line up? What will be the result? Or rather, what do you think the result will be? Who'll win the first test at Cardiff, supposedly a turning track?

[Cricketics]

I think cardiff is likely to be a Drawn test. I haven't checked the weather report, but i'm sure that it will rain there atleast once in 5 days. 4 days play, and i am sure both teams aren't good enough to take 20 wickets that fast to win the game. Aussies don't look as menacing as they looked before the start of 05 Ashes. They had leader in Mcgrath who could always do word exchange before the start of series, this aussie attack looks pale, naive compared to the 05 one. However, they still seem to have a better seam attack then England with Johnson as a leader. But don't count England out. I think in Jimmy Anderson, they have a fantastic starter. I believe he would be one of the key bowlers for England who surely need to make some early inroads.

[Guest Gunner]

Now can we take the discussion back to England vs Australia? Who is stronger? If Pietersen is ruled out in any of the matches, will England be thrashed by an inning? If Flintoff comes back (as the signs are encouraging) will England attack be more potent than that of Australia as they have Swann and also Pasnesar in their bowling line up? What will be the result? Or rather, what do you think the result will be? Who'll win the first test at Cardiff, supposedly a turning track?

Even if the play on the moon and have Superman on their team, England will be thrashed.

[Anakin]

India are but that is an entirely different argument, the analogy is not accurate. We beat the hell out of Pakistan over the last few years, home and away. This is simply not the case with the Ozzies. Can you please tell me exactly how you conclude we are a better team than Oz?

There u go and no, it's not an entirely different argument. Post those two bowlers, OZs have consistently struggled, while it has not been as bad as Pakistan, it's way too obvious which team struggled more.