South Africa going out

[maggot_brain]

I hope SA get knocked out. I hate them almost as much as Australia. You guys should never support gora teams. Come on Pakistan!

[CricketGirl]

I've reproduced two of your posts' date=' word for word. What's disingenuous about that Mr.Gora hater who actually lives in England. :cantstop:[/quote'] Lankans baby lankans!! but if you go by which team plays better many would say SA!!

[Guest Hiten.]

Afridi's just 8 balls into his spell and he has picked up 2 wickets. The ball is not doing much off the pitch.

[Dhondy]

Prophetic. As usual. Nostrabh does it again.

[King]

Oh.... boy... They did go out yet again.. That must be some record. How can they keep losing in Semis? Smith said they are not chockers anymore before the game. :hysterical:

[Guest Hiten.]

Oh.... boy... They did go out yet again.. That must be some record. How can they keep losing in Semis? Smith said they are not chockers anymore before the game. :hysterical:

He said the same thing in WC 07 semis and prior to World T20 game against India. Yep they are not chokers they are just 'under performers in crunch games' :hysterical::hysterical:

[Shehezaada]

somethings just never change

[The Outsider]

Prophetic. As usual. Nostrabh does it again.

While it usually feels good to get the odd prediction right, this one has left a sour taste in the mouth - not because Pakistan won. I had kind of anticipated it on a slow, turning wicket but because when I wrote the OP South Africa were struggling against Indian spinners and I had expected us to sail through the match followed by a win by Pakistan. The punch in the gut was delivered by our pathetic batting display against the likes of Duminy, Botha, and Der Merwe. Even if it was a dead ruber T20, it was one of the lowlights during my days of following cricket to see an Indian side catpult helplessly against pedestrian spin bowling on a bit of a stop start track. One thing I've taken for granted in years and years of watching cricket was Indian batsmen dominating spin - even quality spin. Yeah, there have been the odd setbacks but they have either been to a great spinner or on a genuine minefield. Our batting "exhibition" the day before was one fit to be telecast on Colbert report. Contrast this to the manner in which Afridi - one who is hardly ranked by anyone and Malik - a steady batsman at best proceeded to dismantle the same spin attack of South Africa. All those noises about South Africa suddenly having a good enough spin attack to mount a challenge on any wicket came unstuck with just some adventurous hitting, nimble use of the feet, and deft placements. South Africa lost this match in their middle overs of bowling when the bowlers who appeared Bedi and Prasanna in the previous game were treated like club bowlers which they actually are. I anticipate some really tough times ahead for our batting line up in bowling friendly conditions in the future - can't score against pace, can't score against spin. Give them friendly pattas and IPL attacks where 12 overs out of 20 are bowled by domestic journeymen and watch them swagger about with aplomb as if they have conquered the world. Well done Pakistan for showing what India's future batting line up is truly woth.

[cowboysfan]

wow-is that what we get for being so consistent for such a long time in limited overs cricket? did we not beat lanka in lanka?Twice for petes sake with mendis and murali bowling in tandem?. did we not beat the aussies in australia or the kiwis in NZ?.our weakness is undoubtly our seamers in limited overs cricket and not our batsmen.they dont know how to bowl in the beginning and they dont know how to bowl at the death.i cant believe we are blaming our batsmen who have repeatedly bailed out this team many many times in the recent past.

[Guest Hiten.]

wow-is that what we get for being so consistent for such a long time in limited overs cricket? did we not beat lanka in lanka?Twice for petes sake with mendis and murali bowling in tandem?. did we not beat the aussies in australia or the kiwis in NZ?.our weakness is undoubtly our seamers in limited overs cricket and not our batsmen.they dont know how to bowl in the beginning and they dont know how to bowl at the death.i cant believe we are blaming our batsmen who have repeatedly bailed out this team many many times in the recent past.

You to get your facts right, my friend. Prof clearly mentioned "bowling wickets which assists Spinners and Pace bowlers". - Let's get it straight that our victory in CB series was because of Tendulkar's peak at the very right time and only he helped us post a defendable total tor chase a total. - NZ wickets were no where close to the wickets they had during our previous tours. NZ wickets have lost the charm for the bowlers and are clearly turning out to be a patta wicket carriers. There is a reason why teams that carry respectable batsman average 45+ in NZ since 2005 (Link).Not to mention we succumbed to the same NZ bowling side when there was a hint of movement during the 5th ODI. - Although we did play Murali and Mendis quite gleefully in our recent tour to SL, we also succumbed to Mendis's menace in Asia cup finals, questioning our batsmen's ability of facing quality spinners in a pressure situation. Suresh Raina holds a #3 position in the absence of Tendulkar but he clearly has temperament issues when it comes to keeping the scorecard ticking. His inability of handling the short balls is no secret and he has not faced spinners with any authority. Rohit Sharma is still struggling to convert his potential talent to matching winning ability. Yusuf Pathan cannot be judged at the moment but he did exceedingly well in the crunch situations that he has been put in by MSD's tactical error. MSD and Yuvraj are our accomplished batsmen in the ODI side but we are to find out whether or no MSD's lack of form in T20 will transpire in ODI's too.

[cowboysfan]

i always thought i was the one who always found something to complain when things are not going well but this is....i think it is you who forgot that we actually won the odi series after we got walloped by mendis in the tests-that too without sachin and sehwag if i remember correctly.I am willing to forgive this team and give them a benefit of the doubt.a lot of things went wrong in the world cup right from the selections of unfit players. the series against the aussies and lanka will be a true indicator of our team in limited overs format.

[Guest Hiten.]

i always thought i was the one who always found something to complain when things are not going well but this is....i think it is you who forgot that we actually won the odi series after we got walloped by mendis in the tests-that too without sachin and sehwag if i remember correctly.I am willing to forgive this team and give them a benefit of the doubt.a lot of things went wrong in the world cup right from the selections of unfit players. the series against the aussies and lanka will be a true indicator of our team in limited overs format.

I am afraid that judging Indian players in subcontinental conditions is a not a wise thing to do.

[Dhondy]

While it usually feels good to get the odd prediction right, this one has left a sour taste in the mouth - not because Pakistan won. I had kind of anticipated it on a slow, turning wicket but because when I wrote the OP South Africa were struggling against Indian spinners and I had expected us to sail through the match followed by a win by Pakistan. The punch in the gut was delivered by our pathetic batting display against the likes of Duminy, Botha, and Der Merwe. Even if it was a dead ruber T20, it was one of the lowlights during my days of following cricket to see an Indian side catpult helplessly against pedestrian spin bowling on a bit of a stop start track. One thing I've taken for granted in years and years of watching cricket was Indian batsmen dominating spin - even quality spin. Yeah, there have been the odd setbacks but they have either been to a great spinner or on a genuine minefield. Our batting "exhibition" the day before was one fit to be telecast on Colbert report. Contrast this to the manner in which Afridi - one who is hardly ranked by anyone and Malik - a steady batsman at best proceeded to dismantle the same spin attack of South Africa. All those noises about South Africa suddenly having a good enough spin attack to mount a challenge on any wicket came unstuck with just some adventurous hitting, nimble use of the feet, and deft placements. South Africa lost this match in their middle overs of bowling when the bowlers who appeared Bedi and Prasanna in the previous game were treated like club bowlers which they actually are. I anticipate some really tough times ahead for our batting line up in bowling friendly conditions in the future - can't score against pace, can't score against spin. Give them friendly pattas and IPL attacks where 12 overs out of 20 are bowled by domestic journeymen and watch them swagger about with aplomb as if they have conquered the world. Well done Pakistan for showing what India's future batting line up is truly woth.

Yup. Hard pill to take. However, I never expected anything else. I have never subscribed to the so called brilliance of new boys Rohit & Raina, and when Sehwag went out before a ball was bowled, I knew India were toast. It's telling, isn't it, for all the hoopla, IPL, megabucks, the Viv Richards swagger from guys like Rohit, we still can't win a cricket match without Sachin or Sehwag? And that's just about in any form of the game. Too much reward, too soon, for too little work. Reminds you of another crisis in an entirely different vocation?

[cowboysfan]

I am afraid that judging Indian players in subcontinental conditions is a not a wise thing to do.

welll you have got to judge them on something or wait till dec 2010 when they tour South africa.

[Macj]

Yup. Hard pill to take. However, I never expected anything else. I have never subscribed to the so called brilliance of new boys Rohit & Raina, and when Sehwag went out before a ball was bowled, I knew India were toast. It's telling, isn't it, for all the hoopla, IPL, megabucks, the Viv Richards swagger from guys like Rohit, we still can't win a cricket match without Sachin or Sehwag? And that's just about in any form of the game. Too much reward, too soon, for too little work. Reminds you of another crisis in an entirely different vocation?

India Cricket team = England football team .

[cowboysfan]

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/343727.html there you go-no sachin, sehwag and we beat the lankans in their own backyard -theory fail. these sweeping generalizations are not something i expect from "mature" indian fans.

[The Outsider]

Yup. Hard pill to take. However, I never expected anything else. I have never subscribed to the so called brilliance of new boys Rohit & Raina, and when Sehwag went out before a ball was bowled, I knew India were toast. It's telling, isn't it, for all the hoopla, IPL, megabucks, the Viv Richards swagger from guys like Rohit, we still can't win a cricket match without Sachin or Sehwag? And that's just about in any form of the game. Too much reward, too soon, for too little work. Reminds you of another crisis in an entirely different vocation?

Perhaps, my spending more time on ICF than you do made me buy into the hype around our younger stars and the boy wonders, though I still feel Rohit has it in him to be there for the long haul. Whether he is hungry enough to work on those basics is the question I guess. I had sort of expected our side to come unstuck against a decent pace attack on a pitch with something in it after I watched the last ODI in NZ, but that they would unravel on a slow turner was nothing short of shocking. The reliance on Sehwag and Tendulkar gazes chillingly and the sight of a knackered Ishant and Zaheer dishing up half trackers and half volleys at pedestrian speeds was depressing. In that respect, Johnson's decision to overlook IPL - he would no doubt have gone for among the highest bids - really stands out as a testimony to committment and perfection and is it any wonder that within 3 seasons of making his international debut he is well on his way to join the pantheon of great Aussie bowlers. Long back, I had marked out Johnson, Steyn, and Sreesanth as three bowlers for the next decade but all we hear about Sreesanth is non circket news. Is he that bad a bowler that he cannot find a county contract or does he think that the $50,000 he will earn over a couple of months travelling and playing in the rainy English weather can easily be short changed for a few spells in IPL, followed by an advertising shoot at some film festival. It's possible he did try to procure a county contract and failed, but I doubt it. What's worse is that in trying to extend your analogy I don't see any bailout package coming their way which might mitigate the crisis.

[Dhondy]

The Mitch Johnson example is a very apt one, a telling one. He & Clarke didn't sell their soul to the circus, remained resolute to their country's cause and look where they are now- among the best in the business. Sreesanth's antics are disturbing. Even more disturbing is the inability of our fast bowlers to string together two decent series without getting injured or turning pedestrian. I had genuinely thought RP & Sree would be our spearheads. Not to be. Disappointed too with Ishant's fairly average showing in NZ. Nobody doubts his commitment, but he seems to be standing still rather than growing. What is this- a physical frailty of some sort? Longevity in fast bowling from an Indian bowler- too much to ask for? You have to say the theory has legs. And then they go and ruin their recuperation period by figuring in a 2 month long slogfest where bowlers are surrogate *****s. IPL will lay waste to Indian cricket. No coincidence that its popularity coincided slap bang with the resurgence in India's fortunes. Once the downhill slalom starts, and it's only a matter of time, watch the punters leave in droves.

[King]

Too bad Dhondy and Shwetabh you guys are hanging a good Indian team high and dry based on a Twenty20 WC result. Often I hear the overseas tours are the most important yard stick for India from all and sundry here but often a loss or two in any format tends to bring out the Indians in you (expecting every game in any format to be won). Even the likes of Tendulkar, Dravid and Ganguly used to struggle early on. It's only been a couple of years for these young lads, given them time they will improve. Sure they are playing a lot of cricket due to IPL and all but you guys forget rest of the countries are doing that too. Sri Lankan players have played IPL and they are not looking bad at the moment. So are the English cricketers. Both KP and Bopara did very well after being part of IPL. Malinga has come good and so has Edwards. Sure the likes of Raina and Rohit have come up short against short pitch bowling in the Twenty20s where they don't even have a chance to duck under the ball. Now someone like Ganguly, Steve Waugh and even Tendulkar recently in England (2007 tour) struggled to cope with short stuff but something you guys forget is that these guys have a lot of time to develop and mature. Even the great Hayden and Lara were suspect early in their career against short stuff. I think you guys are judging the players based on a handful of ODIs. You have to give them time to mature and they should be gauged based on test cricket they will play in future not few Twenty20s.

[The Outsider]

Ravi, as I alluded to in one of my earlier posts I am not terribly miffed or surprised that they came up a cropper against the short ball - I kind of expected that. But how can you explain the spectacular batting display against the South African spin triumvirate? That was the performance which stole my goat to be honest. I can't remember any Indian batting line up folding up like that to a bunch of nobodies. The manner of the dismissals left me flabbergasted. The time when spinners used to come on was one of making merry for the Indian batting line up, but on this evidence it looks like we are only good on pattas - yeah pretty good on those, granted. We don't have a choice but to let them mature and see how they develop, but one thing I would really want to see is a concentrated effort to build a test squad for the future. Despite my own misgivings on how long the test format will last, one thing is for sure - till it exists it will be the ultimate barometer of a nation's strength in cricket. IPL may have been good for experienced cricketers who played a few matches with little pressure, but it certainly did not do any of our squad any good. We found no player in IPL -2 who carried on his form in the WC. On the contrary we saw many like Ishant and Zaheer who just tailed away as the tournament progressed and continued the trend in the WC.