Selectors too ignorant towards Praveen Kumar?

[Mr Eintstein]

whats with all the comments about him being terrible with the old ball? he's a new ball bowler, and his job is to make breakthroughs early on, and his FC average of 23 shows he is very good at that. keep in mind he does this all on slow indian pitches, not greentops.

[thevortex]

whats with all the comments about him being terrible with the old ball? he's a new ball bowler' date=' and his job is to make breakthroughs early on, and his FC average of 23 shows he is very good at that. keep in mind he does this all on slow indian pitches, not greentops.[/quote'] So a new ball bowler need not be able to operate with the older ball? That is just too one dimensional as a player for me. In today's context, just being able to come and swing the ball when new is not enough to be there in the national team as a mainstream bowler. Plus the fact is that he is not pacy enough to make the swing really count in his favour. Domestic is one thing. International is quite another.

[Mr Eintstein]

So a new ball bowler need not be able to operate with the older ball? That is just too one dimensional as a player for me. In today's context, just being able to come and swing the ball when new is not enough to be there in the national team as a mainstream bowler. Plus the fact is that he is not pacy enough to make the swing really count in his favour. Domestic is one thing. International is quite another.

bowling with the old ball in ODIs is quite different to bowling with the old ball in tests. his domestic FC record far better than his one day record, so his ability with the old ball shouldn't be too harshly judged just yet. see how he goes in tests.

[saneindian]

If PK deserves a chance in test team' date=' [b']VInay Kumar deserves a chance ahead of PK. Vinay kumar has taken loads of wicket in domestic matches , performed consistently over 3-4 years, bowls faster than PK and move the ball both ways. PK can bowl cutters , but they are hardly useful in tests.

R Vinay Kumar 54 first class matches 202 wickets @24.19, 5 4 wicket hauls, 10 5 wickets hauls and 10 wickets in a match 2 times Praveen Kumar- 37 first class matches, 166 wickets@23.16, 11 4 wicket hauls, 12 5 wicket hauls, 10 wickets in a match once.

[thevortex]

bowling with the old ball in ODIs is quite different to bowling with the old ball in tests. his domestic FC record far better than his one day record' date=' so his ability with the old ball shouldn't be too harshly judged just yet. see how he goes in tests.[/quote'] I have seen him go about his business with the older ball in First Class cricket. And a couple of times I have seen the keeper stand up close to the wickets comfortably for him. That is not what I want from a mainstream medium pacer. Thats OK for limited overs cricket. Not for Tests. He can get you wickets when a batsman wants to play shots. But can he get them when the batsman is defending? I dont think so. Just my view, of course.

[urbestfriend]

R Vinay Kumar 54 first class matches 202 wickets @24.19' date=' [b']5 4 wicket hauls, 10 5 wickets hauls and 10 wickets in a match 2 times Praveen Kumar- 37 first class matches, 166 wickets@23.16, 11 4 wicket hauls, 12 5 wicket hauls, 10 wickets in a match once.

What does these stats prove? There is hardly any difference between PK and VK? or PK thrives on helpful surfaces to take more 4fer and 5fers? If you just go by stats, I'm sure joginder sharma or randeb bose will have a better avg, does that mean they are better bowlers? Also if you just consider last 4 years of VK's stats, I'm sure it would be better than PKs.

[saneindian]

What does these stats prove? There is hardly any difference between PK and VK? or PK thrives on helpful surfaces to take more 4fer and 5fers? If you just go by stats, I'm sure joginder sharma or randeb bose will have a better avg, does that mean they are better bowlers? Also if you just consider last 4 years of VK's stats, I'm sure it would be better than PKs.

Wow! So you said VK deserves a chance ahead of PK in tests and when I showed you PK had a slightly better record, you come up with this masterpiese! amazing. Last 4 years stats, VK- 39 matches, 151 wickets at 24 (11 of these matches at the Mysore ground where the Ranji finals were played) PK -28 matches 125 wickets at 22 Over to you.

[Sooda]

^ Thats the problem with domestic medium pacers - their home grounds are spiced up and conditions pretty much always favour the new ball bowlers early in the matches so they can take advantage. Guys like Kumar and before him Bose, S S Paul, Gagandeep Singh all have/had great averages and Stats - heck maybe they even deserved a shot in a test match. But this is where selectorial judgement comes in and they can see that maybe at intl level they wont quite make the cut. I put up a thread on Vinay Kumar and few weeks ago and whether he can play for India and someone posted a quite revealing stat on his record in Zonal matches: in short, its pretty ordinary

[urbestfriend]

^ Thats the problem with domestic medium pacers - their home grounds are spiced up and conditions pretty much always favour the new ball bowlers early in the matches so they can take advantage. Guys like Kumar and before him Bose, S S Paul, Gagandeep Singh all have/had great averages and Stats - heck maybe they even deserved a shot in a test match. But this is where selectorial judgement comes in and they can see that maybe at intl level they wont quite make the cut. I put up a thread on Vinay Kumar and few weeks ago and whether he can play for India and someone posted a quite revealing stat on his record in Zonal matches: in short, its pretty ordinary

Selection is a lottery in India You can never say VK succeeds or not until you give him a chance. Same goes for Bose,Mohanty etc. Its simple, if you want to make a cut as fst bowler, create a hype on your speed when you enter Ranji league. Performance over the years doesn't really get you nowhere!! Everyone of Fast bowler who got selected are product of this early hype. RP, sree santh, Munaf, Rakesh patel,VRV, Tyagi, Ishanth and now Mithun. Just everybody starts talking how fast he bowls and he is selected immediately! This is what you're talking about selectorial judgement. FYI, VK has taken a 5-fer in last zonal match played. So what makes you think he cant perform at highest level?

[saneindian]

Selection is a lottery in India You can never say VK succeeds or not until you give him a chance. Same goes for Bose,Mohanty etc. Its simple, if you want to make a cut as fst bowler, create a hype on your speed when you enter Ranji league. Performance over the years doesn't really get you nowhere!! Everyone of Fast bowler who got selected are product of this early hype. RP, sree santh, Munaf, Rakesh patel,VRV, Tyagi, Ishanth and now Mithun. Just everybody starts talking how fast he bowls and he is selected immediately! This is what you're talking about selectorial judgement. FYI, VK has taken a 5-fer in last zonal match played. So what makes you think he cant perform at highest level?

Another bowler also took 5 wickets in the same match. His 5 wicket haul included 4 top order wickets and VK's 5 wicket haul included no 6,8,9,10. Yep, VK indeed deserves to play tests ahead of PK.

[Sooda]

Selection is a lottery in India You can never say VK succeeds or not until you give him a chance. Same goes for Bose,Mohanty etc. Its simple, if you want to make a cut as fst bowler, create a hype on your speed when you enter Ranji league. Performance over the years doesn't really get you nowhere!! Everyone of Fast bowler who got selected are product of this early hype. RP, sree santh, Munaf, Rakesh patel,VRV, Tyagi, Ishanth and now Mithun. Just everybody starts talking how fast he bowls and he is selected immediately! This is what you're talking about selectorial judgement. FYI, VK has taken a 5-fer in last zonal match played. So what makes you think he cant perform at highest level?

I agree! think its unfair that some guys whove ploughed away for years in Ranji cricket get overlooked in favour of the latest hot youngster from the U19s. I dont watch any Ranji cricket so I dontknow how good or not these guys are. Thats where the selectors have to make a decision whether they think these guys are good enough for internationals. The more seasoned campaigners will have far better idea of their own game and now 'learn whilst playing' in the harsh spotlight of intl cricket, same holds true for batsmen.