When was the last time our bowling looked so toothless ? We deserve a 2-0 drubbing.

[King]

Umm....India will win this and square the series. But you are free to live in your dream world, if you can't think beyond this series and the very near future. Our batting line up last many years has been arguably one of the strongest test batting line ups in the history of test cricket. This alone has carried the team to the lofty heights of No.1 test ranking. By and large this alone has made our bowlers appear more potent and able than they are. One glance at the test averages of our bowlers compared to those of Australia and South Africa will give you an idea about what I am talking. Yet we have won very consistently. It only goes to show how super dominant our batters have been. The last match our batters failed collectively in a long long time and how the bowlers responded was very evident. But as you and I can agree, our batting has reached such lofty heights that the next path is an inevitable down slide. I am referring to our famed middle order. In light of an inevitable ( and severe ) batting decline in the months to come and a perrenially inconsistent bowling attack, where is Indian test cricket headed ? Your guess is as good as mine.

You have forgotten Tendulkar didn't play much cricket between 2006 and 2008. Rahul Dravid was in dismal form for nearly 2 years. It was as good as playing without two stalwarts in the team. Dhoni was not even considered a batsman those days. Ganguly has retired since a while now. Sehwag was not even in the team for nearly a year and had a horrid run with the bat. The tide of poor form and good form has always bogged the batsmen no matter how great they are. There are times when the likes of Gambhir are even more reliable than Tendulkar or Rahul Dravid. India has never struggled to produce good batsmen and will continue to produce plenty more. Whether they will be capable of filling the void that will be left by Tendulkar/Rahul is a different question but I'm sure batting will be in safe hands. As for Bowling, India has had one steady bowler for the last couple of decades i.e Anil Kumble. Rest have just rallied around him. Bhajji now is definitely the main stay and will get better with years. Spinners usually are better once they age. Zaheer Khan is coming good now but even he has missed out a lot of games due to injuries. RP Singh, Irfan Pathan, Ishant Sharma, Sreesanth, Nehra have all been handy but have been second fiddle. As long as there is one good fast bowler and a good spinner the rest will certainly chip in. There's always going to be one spot in batting and bowling that will be rotated in pretty much all the team no matter how strong they are on paper. I wouldn't say the alarm bells are already ringing for India, there are plenty of talent coming up for sure from India. The only problem is can they handle the success and continue on the pathway to success i.e take a leaf out of Gambhir's book?

[patriot]

India has never struggled to produce good batsmen and will continue to produce plenty more. Whether they will be capable of filling the void that will be left by Tendulkar/Rahul is a different question but I'm sure batting will be in safe hands. I wouldn't say the alarm bells are already ringing for India, there are plenty of talent coming up for sure from India. The only problem is can they handle the success and continue on the pathway to success i.e take a leaf out of Gambhir's book?

Thats an utterly rubbish myth. Throughout the 90's our batters have been tigers at home and lambs abroad, which is why we have such a sham of an overseas record in that decade. Only SRT was there and then Dravid supported him from 1996. But 2 batters don't make a lineup. Our openers were walkovers. Talent may be coming, but it is largely untested at the highest level and the part of which is tested ( Raina, Rohit Sharma ) has been very unconvincing to say the least. It is one thing for the Rahanes, Pandey's and Badrinath's to plunder 125 kph trundlers in Ranji games, another to face the likes of Johnson, Steyn and Morkel early on. Our middle order stalwarts will retire collectively, all within close proximity and these Ranji champions will be thrown to the deep end of the pool, untested. Only time will tell. But what I see so far, does not excite me, at least in tests or perhaps such high standards have been raised that they shall not be replicated any time soon.

[King]

Thats an utterly rubbish myth. Throughout the 90's our batters have been tigers at home and lambs abroad, which is why we have such a sham of an overseas record in that decade. Only SRT was there and then Dravid supported him from 1996. But 2 batters don't make a lineup. Our openers were walkovers. Talent may be coming, but it is largely untested at the highest level and the part of which is tested ( Raina, Rohit Sharma ) has been very unconvincing to say the least. It is one thing for the Rahanes, Pandey's and Badrinath's to plunder 125 kph trundlers in Ranji games, another to face the likes of Johnson, Steyn and Morkel early on. Our middle order stalwarts will retire collectively, all within close proximity and these Ranji champions will be thrown to the deep end of the pool, untested. Only time will tell. But what I see so far, does not excite me, at least in tests or perhaps such high standards have been raised that they shall not be replicated any time soon.

You have honestly not been able to see beyond Tendulkar and Rahul Dravid... Sehwag, Gambhir, Dhoni are not from the 90s. Even VVS came to fore only in this decade. Ganguly has been around since 1996 and contributed well enough though not in the capacity of Rahul/Tendulkar. That said, even the likes of Gambhir/Sehwag/VVS took some time to come good. Similarly if India are able to introduce couple of batsmen and given them long rein as long as they are good enough India will not have a problem. Sehwag/Gambhir/Dhoni/VVS can certainly last a few more years. BTW if the middle order is doing well today that's also because the top order is better. In the 90s, India used to use all sorts of batsmen including wicket keepers and bowlers as opening batsmen. I do believe if India had decent openers in the 90s, India would have done better. If you look around the good/great teams have always had terrific openers. It's sad faster bowlers are recognized as match winners but for any successful test team they need to have good opening combination. No one can stress that better than Pakistan. Why isn't Yousuf, Younis are not able to play to their potential? Yup it's the openers that they lack. Greenidge/Haynes, Langer/Hayden, Taylor/Slater, Sehwag/Gambhir, you name it... good teams have always been blessed with terrific openers. You groom the two good openers for the team, the middle order will settle down quite nicely.

[patriot]

You have honestly not been able to see beyond Tendulkar and Rahul Dravid... Sehwag, Gambhir, Dhoni are not from the 90s. Even VVS came to fore only in this decade. Ganguly has been around since 1996 and contributed well enough though not in the capacity of Rahul/Tendulkar. .

Man, it's not too difficult. I'll make it simpler. We have had a line up 5-6 really great batters for a while, who have delivered consistently. 3 of those legends ( SRT, RSD, VVS) with maximum experience and proven greatness are nearing retirement within a short time of one another. Where does that leave our batting with untested and unconvincing talent at the highest level?

[King]

Let me make it simpler for you too, you can't keep worrying about who's going to leave in a few years time and pick your team. You have to pick the best team that is available at this point in time. Just like Sehwag/Gambhir/Dhoni have come through you have to hope there will be a couple of guys that will come through over the years. There have been times in the past also when Tendulkar has been injured and Rahul Dravid was just there doing nothing. India did come through then didn't they? The biggest set back India really has had is Anil Kumble's retirement, he would have given South Africa sleepless nights if available. His retirement has left a void but you can't sit and worry about that. The team will have to move on.

[patriot]

Let me make it simpler for you too, you can't keep worrying about who's going to leave in a few years time and pick your team. You have to pick the best team that is available at this point in time. Just like Sehwag/Gambhir/Dhoni have come through you have to hope there will be a couple of guys that will come through over the years. There have been times in the past also when Tendulkar has been injured and Rahul Dravid was just there doing nothing. India did come through then didn't they? The biggest set back India really has had is Anil Kumble's retirement, he would have given South Africa sleepless nights if available. His retirement has left a void but you can't sit and worry about that. The team will have to move on.

You are hopeful but devoid of logic and only contradicting yourself. On the one hand you are worrying about who has long left ( Kumble) and then trying not to worry about the force that is going to leave ( RSD, SRT, VVS). Get your facts right, Kumble's record against Saffies at home is 9 matches 39 wickets @ 31.53 at an unimpressive strike rate of 77.3. If this is what sleepness nights are about, then you have very low expectations. His below par performance at home against SAffies who have been able to blunt him at large is the reason why they have the best W/L record if India . http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=3;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

[King]

You are hopeful but devoid of logic and only contradicting yourself. On the one hand you are worrying about who has long left ( Kumble) and then trying not to worry about the force that is going to leave ( RSD, SRT, VVS). Get your facts right, Kumble's record against Saffies at home is 9 matches 39 wickets @ 31.53 at an unimpressive strike rate of 77.3. If this is what sleepness nights are about, then you have very low expectations. His below par performance at home against SAffies who have been able to blunt him at large is the reason why they have the best W/L record if India . http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=3;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

Do this buy a green label and drown yourself because three batsmen are going to retire in the next 3-5 years. Meanwhile I will enjoy watching cricket enjoying the up/downs a sport offers. You have all the makings of statistics laden arm chair expert syndrome. If one averages just a tad over 31 he's not effective in your opinion. Just because Kumble didn't get wickets in the past does not mean he wouldn't have taken some this series if he was still playing. You are pretty hard to understand, you are worried about the batsmen that are going to retire in 2-5 years, you are worried about the bowlers because they have lost one test in recently, you are worried about the fast bowler and you are worried about the slow bowlers. Then why do you bother watching the game? Just look up at the past stats and decide whether India will win or not. You just need to look back at stats don't you reckon to predict the future? If sport was that easy, many would have given up playing and some forever would have been taking wickets/scoring runs. Alas, it doesn't work like that.

[punjabi_khota]

Do this buy a green label and drown yourself because three batsmen are going to retire in the next 3-5 years. Meanwhile I will enjoy watching cricket enjoying the up/downs a sport offers. You have all the makings of statistics laden arm chair expert syndrome. If one averages just a tad over 31 he's not effective in your opinion. Just because Kumble didn't get wickets in the past does not mean he wouldn't have taken some this series if he was still playing. You are pretty hard to understand' date=' [b']you are worried about the batsmen that are going to retire in 2-5 years, you are worried about the bowlers because they have lost one test in recently, you are worried about the fast bowler and you are worried about the slow bowlers. Then why do you bother watching the game? Just look up at the past stats and decide whether India will win or not. You just need to look back at stats don't you reckon to predict the future? If sport was that easy, many would have given up playing and some forever would have been taking wickets/scoring runs. Alas, it doesn't work like that.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Exactly the point I was making. I am sure patriot ages really fast when India game is on. You should post your before and after pic with each test series we play Patriot. :(( This is when we miss Everything_is_gonna_be_alright Morris Mania, the king of feel good. :woot:

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Mr. Wicket]

45 in 6 overs. South African jazbaa and junoon ain't working that well right now!

[kabira]

There should be patriot smiley.

[yoda]

Question is would we have done better if Sree had played instead of Mishra?

[kabira]

^actually Mishra should have had Alviro before lunch. Plumb in front, not given. And add to the drop catch of Amla. They may have been all out below 200.

[Shane]

There should be patriot smiley.

[The Outsider]

The jazbaa and junoon team has been reduced to bowling 3 feet outside the leg stump 40 odd overs into the innings. Yeah, we really must look up to their attitude! :adore: One bowler bowling 3 feet outside leg, the other 3 fee outside off! :adore:

[Dhondy]

Yaar Shwetabh, why did you start jumping up and down so soon? don't you know your Indian team? When Sehwag bats, it's springtime, the sun is shining, the pitch is a bed of roses, and others tag along. He gets out, and it's a whole new game. The pitch is turning, Steyn looks a demon and SA are rampant again. Would have got a double but for Sachin's constant emphasis on circumspection. He usually takes bowlers apart at that stage. You have also seen India's next generation- Mishra, Sharma, Badri, Vijay. Do you still think my pessimism is misplaced?

[kabira]

>Would have got a double but for Sachin's constant emphasis on circumspection. He usually takes bowlers apart at that stage. Oh My God. He would have been gone long time, He lost his thinking after Gambhir's run out. It was Sachin who carried him. He scored his first triple with SAchin in company, scored second when Dravid was his company.

[Fontaine]

Dhondy, I don't think it's pessimistic or optimistic to look at India's future players realistically. It basically comes down to this: We have 3/4 young test bowling hopes in Pathan, Sree, Sharma, and maybe Rp Singh. It's unrealistic to expect all four of these guys to come good and be the next Zaheer Khan, but I think it's fair to say that one, maybe even two of these guys can become a very good test bowler. Their issues aren't with talent, but application and consistency, something Zaheer himself fought with for years. So it's just a question of one or two of these guys becoming a more consistent bowler and working hard on full fitness. That batting is a concern but only if you think that we'll find the next SRT/Dravid because those guys are simply irreplaceable. But, just like Gambhir/Dhoni/Sehwag have come good, one or two other batsmen will emerge. As long as we don't lose all four (Zaheer, SRT, Dravid, Laxman) in quick succession due to retirement/injuries then I think we'll be ok.

[Dhondy]

Sehwag and Dhoni didn't "emerge" Fontaine, they burst into the scene like Guy Fawke's night in full bloom. We knew at the outset that they were destined for greatness, and they didn't disappoint us. The other players- Pathan, RP Singh, you have mentioned are tried and tested failures, and no amount of recycling will make them national XI material. You may choose to counter my opinion by giving examples of Zaheer and Gambhir, who needed several incarnations before they finally started to deliver, but I'd counter that with the number of players who have gone down the chute during the same period. If you believe in odds, you have to say the situation looks pretty gloomy right now. Our first choice youngsters are looking like club players and there's nobody ready to emerge from the shade. Hand on heart, which young batsman or bowler has got your adrenaline racing recently? You look at other countries, see an Aussie newcomer like Harris pawn the Pakistanis, you see Petersen coming in to a foreign land and score a 100 in front of a hostile crowd- where's the talent in our ranks to do that?

[kabira]

>You look at other countries, see an Aussie newcomer like Harris pawn the Pakistanis, you see Petersen coming in to a foreign land and score a 100 in front of a hostile crowd- where's the talent in our ranks to do that? LOLzer. Alviro Peterson average 37 in first class cricket. If he was newcomer that would set world on fire, he would have been in the XI long time back. SA have been struggling to find partner for Smith for long time. What great do you see from Harris? He is just another bowler. Why self loathing Doctorsaheb?