THX_1138 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 as much as i feel we need to be very hands off of the arts and other creative outlets, mr. hussain seemed the least deserving of such a protection. he seemed to relish controversy and i believe he thought of himself as a celebrity of sorts... his art was marginal at best, never ever was it inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 It's always that sad cry - 'they' have insulted us! Well sod that for a pile of bollocks. All I see here is the 'right wingers' justifying the departure of MFH. Or saying " Indian culture has been insulted"! Well, dear boys and girls, the same Hussain is a thread in the tapestry we call Indian culture, but leave that aside. It is clear - well, to me at least - that the tolerance of Indian culture is the impact of Hinduism, or the liberal interpretation of Hinduism At the same time, the reason we are who we are is not because some ****heads espoused a hardline theory of Hinduism The reason we are who we are is because we remain mostly tolerant and stay within a tolerant strain of Hindiusm. Maqbool Fida Hussain - I knew you partly. You were and are a tharki, irrational, very talented SOB, and I am proud you were Indian. My culture allows people to take potshots because it is much stronger than the people who take potshots, or the opinions of people who take potshots. Do I want to be any other way? ***** no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 See the irony? You want to give full freedom to people to offend others' date=' but want to deny those who are offended from even responding.[/quote'] Oh y ou can criticize, I have no problems with that, as long as you dont try to stop it vionently or otherwise. I dont have a problem with any body criticizing that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharathh Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 This topic has been a fascinating read. My 2 cents on this topic. Sex was not meant to a taboo topic in Hinduism. In fact almost every Hindu prays to the Shiva lingam and the yoni ... which is meant to be a visual representation of the creation of life. However at the same time Hinduism has never (at least to my common knowledge) encouraged free or open sex. The kama sutra that everyone talks about was more an instruction manual rather than an indicator that people in ancient times were fine with pre-marital or free sex with multiple partners. In addition, I believe that the temples of Kajuraho and the illustrations at the Ajantha caves were also a way to educate people about the ways of sex at a time when most people were illiterate. Temples were not just a place of worship during those times, they were also a place where people assembled (a forum of sorts that the Romans frequented). People assembled there to learn about everything from the affairs of the state, to perhaps the weather forecast for the next few days. In fact although people like to say that these temples have statues with sexual imagery, they are only part of the temple's statues. There are so many other statues that have nothing to do with sexual imagery. THe wikipedia article on Kajuraho does a good job talking about the monuments and its images. My meanderings seem more like 25 cents at the moment... but I do have a point. I believe that MF Hussain's paintings are malevolent. Sure people may say that they depict sexual imagery that Hindus should be comfortable with. However, I do not believe that any of the sexual imagery depicted by Hussain is consistent with anything that Hindus believe in. If he had painted sexual scenes between the gods and their consorts (such as Shiva and Parvati) I do not believe that anyone should have a problem with that. In fact it would be extremely hypocritical of Hindus to do so. However, to show Sita having intercourse with Hanuman, or Durga having sex with her tiger is wrong. It would be akin to Mary having sex with Jesus... or perhaps showing Joseph and Mary in a full blown orgy with some angels or something of that nature. The images painted by Hussain cannot be excused quoting the freedom of expression because the kind of images that he has painted have nothing to do with any accepted form of Hinduism. It is a perversion of the religion. Freedom of speech and expression has boundaries. In fact freedom of speech is only acceptable as long as it does not hurt the feelings of others. On the other hand, what the RSS and other Hindu fanatics did to protest these drawings was wrong as well. It is so disheartening to see that the most visible mouthpiece for Hindus happen to consist primarily of lunatics. These guys do not do anything good for the religion. They just pick on topics that can be exploited to give them visibility. What have these guys actually done for Hinduism? Have they actually done anything progressive? Have they ever tried to advertise the good parts of Hinduism? Their main motive is to divide people by giving people a false impression that they are protectors of Hinduism. Hinduism is more a way of life than it is a religion. It is easier to become popular by raising populist issues than actually doing anything good. Have these people ever thought about creating schools where children can be educated? Do they do charity work? People love to bad-mouth Christians - saying that their missionaries do everything that they do with an ulterior motive. However, at least these missionaries spread education as well. They take care of people by giving them food and shelter. Regardless of their motives, they do all of this. People rarely if ever do this in Hinduism - unless it's election time of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 the cultural aspects of Hinduism are still very close to my value system. I don't believe this. Everything you said contradict what I have quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 you got that spot on sree .... :winky: So you're awake. What's your definition of the 'ideal Indian culture' if you have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Params7 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Asterix : Hinduism is not weak and we don't have to bend down and act liberal to prove that. For once show some respect to your religion instead of joining people from other religion in abusing your own religion. Dude, don't tell me how to live my religion. You don't like toilet seats with Krishna's pics stamped on it? Then don't buy it, kay? But then again, I follow the "Freedom Of Speechology" instead of "Pick up your pitchforksology" To me, just because somebody cursed my sister or mother doesn't mean I have all the rights to go and knock his lights out. He can blabber all he want, and in return I will open up a company of toilet seats with the name of "Allah" stamped all over it, but its not until he touches me physically first will I break his face. Not related to this topic necessarily, but one day when India grows more tolerant (like in 50 or so years from now, I hope..), it'll be awesome if some Hollywood bigshot recreates Mahabharat/Ramayan in the style of LoTR. Arjuna > Legolas all the Mother****ing way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 ............ Not related to this topic necessarily, but one day when India grows more tolerant (like in 50 or so years from now, I hope..), it'll be awesome if some Hollywood bigshot recreates Mahabharat/Ramayan in the style of LoTR. Arjuna > Legolas all the Mother****ing way! Pardner, if you're the youth of tomorrow, you have just reaffirmed my faith in the Indian youth. More power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Params7 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 there aint no ideal indian culture anymore ... the only culture that we follow these days is that of bendingover. Oh, how were bendingover just like those Westerners and not killing in the name of Krishna! lolamirite calm down .... before you show your bahaduri in the real world try dissecting ROP on the phorum here and see how long you will last. What's ROP? And did you seriously just say I wouldn't last on...an internet message board? O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 there aint no ideal indian culture anymore ... the only culture that we follow these days is that of bendingover. I respect your track record here, I really do, more than anyone else. Even though I suspect we're at the opposite ends of the belief spectrum. But I put to you that the belief we're 'bendingover' is wrong. Because we're actually stronger than we were before. Economically and militarily. Not sure about politically, especially after IG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Another thing guys. I may be at odds at saying this with the liberals and the conservatives but the one reason we're stone cold able to feel free to critique everything is because the majority of us are Hindus. More specifically our Hindu upbringing and faith and beliefs; historically and sociologically this has mellowed a lo tof cultures and religions including Islam. The reason I can say **** you Shiv anhd Vishnu and God is because I am Hindu. And I am proud of that fact. Let us be very clear about that. HOWEVER, this also means that the stability of what we call India depends on Hindus being tolerant. Let him say what he wants. Because if we stop him, we go against the best principals of Hinduism. So -Long live MF Hussain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 thanks for the kind words. May I know what your previous username was ? You're welcome. But then, you deserved my compliments. So... Now for the debate! I was not here before, You may believe it or not,. But I can only say this- I have never signed on to these forums before this username. And since I'm talking to you, I will swear that that is true. We get harassed by tinpot nations on a daily basis ... a huge chunk of our countrymen got evicted from their homeland about 20 yrs ago while the bahadur fauj watches helplessly .... and you call this as a indicator of being "stronger" ? Tinpot nations? I suggest to you that you are getting paranoid over minor things. Pakistan is alearyd ****ed up. We are moving ahead. Now to the main debate - I cannot believe that you think that one painter should be ostracized because of what he has painted?! I am disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Again .. shall we put this tolerance bijiness to some simple scrutiny and see how it holds up ... or facts are not permitted to get in this discussion .... :hmmm: Yessir, let's go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 How do you know my track record ? From what I've read here. But I could have overestimated you. Have I? come back when that sh!t hole no longer exists on the map. Its existance is in the best interests of plenty of strategic powers .... they will keep that rogue nation alive while we keep sucking our thumbs. That is the problem. That '**** hole'? It's called Pakistan. And whatever you want or desire, exists. What strategic powers? You think they could have kept Pakistan going without inherent desire to exist? You make the mks take of ascribing weak powers to the 'enemy'. Its not about one painter his age or anything. Its about setting precedents ... you advertise to the world that you are willing to take crap by tolerating such BS ... when you do that there will be many who are more than willing to do the honors of screwing you. Precedents for whom? Our best representative in one field? Because that is what he is... And what do you advertise to the world really? Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Cool here goes ... You talk about Hindu culture mellowing Islam .... to quote you : Whats the story on Kashmir ... how is this "mellowing" working out there ? So, quick question - what are your suggestions for Kashmir? What is your solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three'sACrowd Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 BB will continue the debate here, but gotta go. Unforch, the wifey is calling and us internet warriors (well, me) have no choice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Bestiality is discussed in Kama Sutra :aha: So now you are gonna screw Afridi?:wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 I don't believe this. Everything you said contradict what I have quoted. Lo ek aur aa gaye Hinduism ke thekedaar - you have made a grand total of 6 posts in this thread including the above and provided links to wikipedia in half of them. Grow some originiality, present your thoughts, and maybe I'll be ar$ed enough to think if I've lived up to your supreme interpretation of Hinduism - not that I give a damn for the simple reason I don't consider myself a Hindu if I have to identify with any loonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir john Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 good news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Lo ek aur aa gaye Hinduism ke thekedaar - you have made a grand total of 6 posts in this thread including the above and provided links to wikipedia in half of them. Grow some originiality' date=' present your thoughts, and maybe I'll be ar enough to think if I've lived up to your supreme interpretation of Hinduism - not that I give a damn for the simple reason I don't consider myself a Hindu if I have to identify with any loonies.[/quote'] The flaws are glaring and the contradictions are evident. Its difficult to believe what you are saying because I feel you are telling a pack of lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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