Gavaskar vs Tendulkar

[Sachinism]

Lets have another 60 page discussion where nobody is going to change their views or accept anyone else's

[Sooda]

Your sig sums it up well :cantstop:.. Read that post I pasted from that link though- its interesting.

[satyam1729]

Mohinder amarnath played WI quicks better than any players in history when all the 4 played together http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=4;orderby=runs;player_involve=1426;player_involve=1451;player_involve=1522;player_involve=1571;player_involve_type=all;template=results;type=batting

[Roshanrocks]

By the way i used Patriot's analysis against another DEADLY bowler called AMBROSE link Sachin averages 57.8 in 5 tests, Next i did Walsh.... wasnt he a great fast bowler too? link average 66.11 agaisnt the "great" shoaib akhtar he averages 41.6 awwwwwww so less but waitttttttttttttttttt there was one contentious run out now wasnt there? ha? link then in this match Akhtar never dismisses sachin and bowls all of 2 balls to him, check player vs player link so already minus 3 innings and his average shoots to 59.4 (((this stats cruching is boring boring stuff)))

[Roshanrocks]

Allan Donald was another bowler who always had a measure of Sachin. Proof? Dismissed him thrice in 14 tests they played against each other.

sachin n donald played 14 tests against each other?? then wat did i do wrong :((

[Dhondy]

Allan Donald was another bowler who always had a measure of Sachin. Proof? Dismissed him 5 times in 11 tests they played against each other. Pollock continued the harassment' date=' taking out his wicket 4 times in 12 tests.[/quote'] Lol! 5/11 doesn't look as impressive as 3/14 does it? Time for humble pie. Better research needed.

[Roshanrocks]

i am so bored .......... checking match by match the reason for sachin's dismissal, wether he was dismissed farly, or run out... or by some other bowler.... arrrghhh.... glad am not astatistician

[Dhondy]

Relatively better, but a galaxy away from domination. You're right, need to be diligent. On the other hand, the sight of you giggling and leaping like a school girl was worth the slip up. :winky:

Can't you even get your insults right first time around?:spiteful:

[achilles]

No matter what anyone says, does, shows or writes, Gavaskar was a greater Test player than Sachin Tendulkar. No youtube video or a horrendous Sachin suck-up write-up will make me change my mind. Sachin is a Legend of this time. But Gavaskar was the Pioneer and Sachin is his protege !

[Sooda]

LINK SRT vs CEL Ambrose (WI) or AA Donald (SA) or GD McGrath (Aus) or SM Pollock (SA) or Shoaib Akhtar (Pak) or DW Steyn (SA) or CA Walsh (WI) or Waqar Younis (Pak) or Wasim Akram (Pak) Averages 41. Conclusion both BCL and SRT were rubbish B->

[Sooda]

OK THEN The same for Steve Waugh 'Involving any of the players CEL Ambrose (WI) or AA Donald (SA) or A Kumble (India) or M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) or Shoaib Akhtar (Pak) or CA Walsh (WI) or Waqar Younis (Pak) or Wasim Akram (Pak) ' Average goes down from 51 ...to... 49 Legend :adore: SRW. Ignoring for a min that he led the best team ever surrounded by some special players unlike BCL and SRT, and didnt have to face his compatriots- it is a pretty darn good record. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=1765;player_involve=1775;player_involve=1884;player_involve=1935;player_involve=1973;player_involve=2011;player_involve=2041;player_involve=5649;template=results;type=allround

[Dhondy]

No matter what anyone says, does, shows or writes, Gavaskar was a greater Test player than Sachin Tendulkar. No youtube video or a horrendous Sachin suck-up write-up will make me change my mind. Sachin is a Legend of this time. But Gavaskar was the Pioneer and Sachin is his protege !

I agree Achilles. I also agree with Vortex that it is not accurate to compare players across different eras. Applying "weights" etc is nothing but a fanciful exercise. However, there is nothing to stop you from comparing batsmen from the same era. For example, Lara has played against six of those great fast bowlers that Patriot posted for Tendulkar (he didn't play Steyn), and in a similar number of matches too. In those matches, he averages 42.73 to Sachin's 37.23, a difference of 5.5. That's pretty big. In those matches, Lara has been dismissed 29/88 (33%) by these bowlers. Sachin has gone 20/69 times (29%). If you had to compare Gavaskar to his peers, perhaps you should choose Greg Chappell, whose reputation for playing fast bowling was immense. He also didn't have the advantage of not having to play against the fearsome quicks, as Viv did. His average against Marshall, Roberts, Holding, Garner, Imran and Hadlee is a solid 50.58. Sunny's average against the same bowlers was 49.91. Greg was dismissed 22/53 (41.5%) times by these bowlers, while Gavaskar was dismissed 39/74 (52.7%) times. Thus, stats show that Gavaskar was as good as the best of his era against the great fast bowlers. You can't say that about Sachin. However, Sachin averages more than Lara overall. To have achieved that, it is quite clear that he outscored Lara against weaker bowling sides by a big margin, not just to make up the deficit from his penury against the fast bowlers, but to get ahead of Lara.

[Dhondy]

Sooda, yup. That's why I rate SRW so highly. No doubt the fella was massive against great bowling. I removed the 2 spinners from the list, because I rate the difficulties of playing fast bowling way ahead of playing spinners. He still averages 49.11. Absolutely fab. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=1765;player_involve=1775;player_involve=1884;player_involve=1935;player_involve=2011;player_involve=5649;template=results;type=allround

[achilles]

I agree Achilles. I also agree with Vortex that it is not accurate to compare players across different eras. Applying "weights" etc is nothing but a fanciful exercise. However, there is nothing to stop you from comparing batsmen from the same era. For example, Lara has played against six of those great fast bowlers that Patriot posted for Tendulkar (he didn't play Steyn), and in a similar number of matches too. In those matches, he averages 42.73 to Sachin's 37.23, a difference of 5.5. That's pretty big. In those matches, Lara has been dismissed 29/88 (33%) by these bowlers. Sachin has gone 20/69 times (29%). If you had to compare Gavaskar to his peers, perhaps you should choose Greg Chappell, whose reputation for playing fast bowling was immense. He also didn't have the advantage of not having to play against the fearsome quicks, as Viv did. His average against Marshall, Roberts, Holding, Garner, Imran and Hadlee is a solid 50.58. Sunny's average against the same bowlers was 49.91. Greg was dismissed 22/53 (41.5%) times by these bowlers, while Gavaskar was dismissed 39/74 (52.7%) times. Thus, stats show that Gavaskar was as good as the best of his era against the great fast bowlers. You can't say that about Sachin. However, Sachin averages more than Lara overall. To have achieved that, it is quite clear that he outscored Lara against weaker bowling sides by a big margin, not just to make up the deficit from his penury against the fast bowlers, but to get ahead of Lara.

Dhondy bhai, I agree with pretty much everything you say. And yes, I believe Sachin is a better batsman than Lara, coz apart from Lara himself admitting that, stats and consistency show us the correct picture. Maybe Lara was more talented than Sachin. Who knows what a person, who scored 375 and 400* could've done. But I think he didn't do much justice to his talent. Sachin, on the other hand, continues to do so, despite a billion people's pressure on his shoulders.

[Dhondy]

And yes' date=' I believe Sachin is a better batsman than Lara, coz apart from Lara himself admitting that, s[b']tats and consistency show us the correct picture.

Do they? I'd also ignore what Lara says. He would have sounded pretty arrogant had he said anything else.

[patriot]

Clearly, you're not adept at manipulating stats a la Dre and use it to confirm (not to be confused with convincing others) theories in your mind. For example, my theory is that Waugh's inflated average is a direct consequence of his sheltered existence in arguably the most powerful line-up ever. You don't agree? Check out his stats in the first half of his career when Australia weren't the all conquering team. Steve's stats

Heard of late bloomers ? Steve Waugh is one. If things were that spik and spank... the " champ" of the 90's Tendulkar should have done better than averaging 47 odd in the decade of 2000 over 80 tests in easily the most batting friendly period in test history. Instead he is dumped at No.11 among his peers. And this happens to be just over small amount of 50 % of his playing career. STATS

[Sooda]

^^He was hit by a wide range of injuries for alot of the last decade- comes with having played cricket for 10 or so years by then.

[achilles]

Do they? I'd also ignore what Lara says. He would have sounded pretty arrogant had he said anything else.

Yes. Because Sachin has the most 100s and is the highest run-getter in the history of cricket, at an average which is nothing short of mindblowing coz it has been maintained over 20 yrs. Remarkable, isn't it? :isalute: As for Lara, I'd like to reiterate my opinion on him-

Maybe Lara was more talented than Sachin. Who knows what a person' date=' who scored 375 and 400* could've done. But I think he didn't do much justice to his talent. Sachin, on the other hand, continues to do so, despite a billion people's pressure on his shoulders.[/quote']

[saneindian]

Heard of late bloomers ? Steve Waugh is one. If things were that spik and spank... the " champ" of the 90's Tendulkar should have done better than averaging 47 odd in the decade of 2000 over 80 tests in easily the most batting friendly period in test history. Instead he is dumped at No.11 among his peers. And this happens to be just over small amount of 50 % of his playing career. STATS

Heard of mid-career crisis? Sachin went through one between mid of 2004 to early 2007, played about 20-25 tests with just 1-2 100s. But when it comes to Sachin, he should have been dominant in every series, every month of the 21 years he has played cricket for, should have dominated every bowler he played against, should have done equally well against Pace, spin, home/away, in summer, winter...Such is the expectation from him.

[Roshanrocks]

Heard of late bloomers ? Steve Waugh is one. If things were that spik and spank... the " champ" of the 90's Tendulkar should have done better than averaging 47 odd in the decade of 2000 over 80 tests in easily the most batting friendly period in test history. Instead he is dumped at No.11 among his peers. And this happens to be just over small amount of 50 % of his playing career. STATS

conversely he has scored heavily in th ODI's wierd aint it? link