The absurdity behind nominating Ponting as the best batsman of his generation

[The Outsider]

1. Away average of 48.44 does not match up to the standards set by his modern peers like Tendulkar with 55.44 for way behind Dravid with 57.12. Clearly lacks the mettle to perform away from home to the extent of his peers and competitors. 2. Lopsided overall average due to playing an extremely high proportion of matches at home. Ponting has played 55% of his tests at home, for comparison Tendulkar has played only 45% at home. If Ponting had to play as many away tests as Tendulkar, his overall average would have been 53.xx 3. Performance in the backyard of his team's biggest opponents is laughable with an average of 20. This alone should disqualify Ponting from any race or talk about the best of his generation. 4. Another mediocre performance in the backyard of their traditional opponents England with an average of 44. These two points clearly show how he bottles up under the pressure of high intensity contests. Compare with someone like Waugh who would take the battle to both England and the toughest opponents of his time, West Indies averaging 74 and 68 respectively. 5. In a head to head with Tendulkar, for example, he comes up a cropper. Tendulkar averages 60.8 against 47.0 for Ponting when they played on the same pitches. And needless to say who faced the better bowling attacks. Tendulkar has outperformed Ponting in 6 out of the 7 series in which they have faced off. 6. Average is bloated by being in a very strong side with exceptional batting and bowling. Before Australia became the all conquering side his average was 43 till as late as the Ashes '01. After the retirement of Warne, McGrath, Hayden, Gilchrist he is back to the same mediocre average, again averaging 43. 7. His surge in average for a 5 year period was not only a result of being in a strong side, but the universally acknowledged flattening of pitches. In the 90s with great bowlers and juicy tracks still around his average was 44, that's in the league of what Samaraweera carries today and a good 14 points less than Tendulkar during those tougher batting times. 8. That Ponting is big 4th innings performer is a myth built on soft chases on docile tracks, which cannot be described as typical 4th innings wickets. Once you factor in 4th innings in places like India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and West Indies where 4th innings tracks show wear and tear the average plummets to 13.2. 9. His second innings average is pretty ordinary compared to someone like Tendulkar or Dravid at 44.37. In the third innings of a test, he comes up a cropper with 40.50 with just 2 centuries. Has only 6 second innings hundreds in his entire career. 10. Has the distinction of being the only captain in cricket history to have thrown away a test by bowling part timers, so he would not be banned for future matches. And the show is not over yet. The wheels are coming off his batting after the safety net of a great team is gone. If he carries on till 2013 Ashes, it will take a brave man to consider nominating him as the best of his generation.

[Sooda]

:adore: Yes. Can you do Steve Waugh (if possible) next...hes the only other genuine contender to the numero uno of the last generation/15 or so years...

[The Outsider]

:adore: Yes. Can you do Steve Waugh (if possible) next...hes the only other genuine contender to the numero uno of the last generation/15 or so years...

LOL! Probably later, but just off the top off my head he does not have any 4th innings century and his second match innings average is somewhere in the pitiful 30s range, which should immediately knock him out of contention.

[Sooda]

Great.. go for it :two_thumbs_up: If nothing else to prove that the same exacting criteria which people use to take Tendulkar apart can be used to take apart the claim of all other top batsmen. Which leaves us...nowhere...

[Bradman99]

Hmm Tendulkar is the best batsman of this generation, I don't think there is much doubt about that. However, Ponting is not THAT far behind.. It is always easy to make a batsman look worse than others when you include only the negative information. Interesting read though.

[Guest Gunner]

Hmm Tendulkar is the best batsman of this generation' date=' I don't think there is much doubt about that. However, Ponting is not THAT far behind.. [b']It is always easy to make a batsman look worse than others when you include only the negative information. Interesting read though.

That was exactly the point of this thread. Well done, you got it. :nice:

[Bradman99]

That was exactly the point of this thread. Well done' date=' you got it. :nice:[/quote'] Well, something similar could be done with Tendulkar to make him look worse than Ponting. Get what I'm sayin

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[patriot]

1. Away average of 48.44 does not match up to the standards set by his modern peers like Tendulkar with 55.44 for way behind Dravid with 57.12. Clearly lacks the mettle to perform away from home to the extent of his peers and competitors.

Tendulkar - The Bangladesh exterminator :hysterical: , should not be judged upon his King Louis XI Test feasts against a side not good enough to beat most local FC sides. An avg of 136 against them really helps " AWAY" numbers, no ? If you take out the two (Bang and Zim) not fit to play tests minnows, Ponting's AWAY average is 47.64, Tendulkar's is 52.20, a diff of about 4.5. Not small, but not decisive either. If AWAY averages are the be all and end all, then Dravid with an AWAY average of about 55 should be the numero uno. Ponting's AWAY average is not earth shattering, but does not take away much from him being an all time great batting champion.

2. Lopsided overall average due to playing an extremely high proportion of matches at home. Ponting has played 55% of his tests at home, for comparison Tendulkar has played only 45% at home. If Ponting had to play as many away tests as Tendulkar, his overall average would have been 53.xx

What rubbish ! Is it Ponting's fault that the BCCI invite major teams like England and South Africa only for 2 match test series, rather than 4/5 match series. It is neither Tendulkar nor Ponting's fault. But haan, Tendulkar's HOME avg against South Africa and England is 47.XX, so had we played about 20 more HOME matches due to 5 match series against South Africa ( espcially during the time of Donald :winky:) and England , we know which direction that overall AVG would have gone. :hysterical: :winky:

3. Performance in the backyard of his team's biggest opponents is laughable with an average of 20. This alone should disqualify Ponting from any race or talk about the best of his generation.

Thats what you think. Almost all Aussie cricketers talk of England ( not even South Africa who had for a long time been the defacto 2nd best team) as the biggest opponent.

4. Another mediocre performance in the backyard of their traditional opponents England with an average of 44. These two points clearly show how he bottles up under the pressure of high intensity contests. Compare with someone like Waugh who would take the battle to both England and the toughest opponents of his time, West Indies averaging 74 and 68 respectively.

Tendulkar averages 40.25 against traditional opponents Pakistan. And this includes batting on the Karachi , Lahori and Multani expressways ( where even a Afridi is a new gen Viv Richards) nothing like Headingley , Lords or even Edgbaston.

5. In a head to head with Tendulkar, for example, he comes up a cropper. Tendulkar averages 60.8 against 47.0 for Ponting when they played on the same pitches. And needless to say who faced the better bowling attacks. Tendulkar has outperformed Ponting in 6 out of the 7 series in which they have faced off.

In head to head in the 8 test matches they have Afridi and Tendulkar have faced off on the same pitches , Tendulkar averages 31.07, Afridi averages 47.26. Younis Khan probably averages close to 100. Come, lets draw a conclusion.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

6. Average is bloated by being in a very strong side with exceptional batting and bowling. Before Australia became the all conquering side his average was 43 till as late as the Ashes '01. After the retirement of Warne, McGrath, Hayden, Gilchrist he is back to the same mediocre average, again averaging 43.

Tendulkar since 2000, batting in arguably one of the greatest batting sides of all time with the likes of Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman, Ganguly....averages only 47.00 ( excl minnows) and that too on the flattest pitches in test history.

7. His surge in average for a 5 year period was not only a result of being in a strong side, but the universally acknowledged flattening of pitches. In the 90s with great bowlers and juicy tracks still around his average was 44, that's in the league of what Samaraweera carries today and a good 14 points less than Tendulkar during those tougher batting times.

The same universally acknowledged flat pitches of the decade of 2000 where (exclu minnows ) Ponting avgs nearly 60 compared to Tendulkar's 47, who is dumped below 11 batsman ? :blink:

8. That Ponting is big 4th innings performer is a myth built on soft chases on docile tracks, which cannot be described as typical 4th innings wickets. Once you factor in 4th innings in places like India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and West Indies where 4th innings tracks show wear and tear the average plummets to 13.2. 9. His second innings average is pretty ordinary compared to someone like Tendulkar or Dravid at 44.37. In the third innings of a test, he comes up a cropper with 40.50 with just 2 centuries. Has only 6 second innings hundreds in his entire career.

LOL ! Tendulkar's 4th innings avg on those easy and docile 4th innings pitches of Australia and South Africa , which don't even deserve to be called 4th innings ( according to you ) , is a horrendous 15.81. Doesn't get better in the 3rd innings in these countries ( which should be like 1st innings pitches, by your argument line ). It is a damning 21.18.

10. Has the distinction of being the only captain in cricket history to have thrown away a test by bowling part timers, so he would not be banned for future matches.

He also has the distinction of being the small matter of, the most successful test and ODI captain in test history, winning a record matches on the trot, a record world cups on the trot, and a record Champions trophies on the trot ( even after the retirement of 70 % of his senior team).

And the show is not over yet. The wheels are coming off his batting after the safety net of a great team is gone. If he carries on till 2013 Ashes, it will take a brave man to consider nominating him as the best of his generation.

True, the show is not over yet. Ponting could so easily like Tendulkar just be ' mein aur mere batting records, bas , aur koi tension nahi mangta hai' . It takes alot of balls to captain a rebuilding side and lead to a successful transition. Yeah, he is indeed very brave. The little Mumbaikar, must go down as the only """ great """ batsman to have been an utter choker and nervous wreck as captain . He failed not once but in two stints. Any damn fricking great batsman, under any circumtance be it a Bradman or a Steve Waugh or Viv Richards or a Rahul Dravid or Lara or a Border ( who shepherded Aussies through their worst period , even guiding them to a WC win ) or a Gavaskar ( who led one of the weakest INdian teams to a better than 1 W/L ratio ) , has been a more than reasonably successful captain. Either they have upped their batting as captain or have lead sides successfully. Tendulkar fails on both amidst excuses galore. He is in all probablity the only damn exception. And then again and again, it points to the same bloody thing. HE JUST PLAINLY CANNOT PLAY AND THINK OUTSIDE HIMSELF. HE SIMPLY FACTING CAN'T. And it reflects in his nervous wreck demeanors as captain. ( Excuses galore) .

[Malcolm Merlyn]

prof you beat even the boss bhai to this:hail: i say Tendlya is the bestest.

[Sachinism]

That was exactly the point of this thread. Well done' date=' you got it. :nice:[/quote'] but apna patriot missed it :((

[Gunner_Mania]

Well, something similar could be done with Tendulkar to make him look worse than Ponting. Get what I'm sayin

There patriot has done it for you.

[Gunner_Mania]

Tendulkar - The Bangladesh exterminator :hysterical: , should not be judged upon his King Louis XI Test feasts against a side not good enough to beat most local FC sides. An avg of 136 against them really helps " AWAY" numbers, no ? If you take out the two (Bang and Zim) not fit to play tests minnows, Ponting's AWAY average is 47.64, Tendulkar's is 52.20, a diff of about 4.5. Not small, but not decisive either. If AWAY averages are the be all and end all, then Dravid with an AWAY average of about 55 should be the numero uno. Ponting's AWAY average is not earth shattering, but does not take away much from him being an all time great batting champion. What rubbish ! Is it Ponting's fault that the BCCI chewtiyas invite major teams like England and South Africa only for 2 match test series, rather than 4/5 match series. It is neither Tendulkar nor Ponting's fault. But haan, Tendulkar's HOME avg against South Africa and England is 47.XX, so had we played about 20 more HOME matches due to 5 match series against South Africa ( espcially during the time of Donald :winky:) and England , we know which direction that overall AVG would have gone. :hysterical: :winky: Thats what you think. Almost all Aussie cricketers talk of England ( not even South Africa who had for a long time been the defacto 2nd best team) as the biggest opponent. Tendulkar averages 40.25 against traditional opponents Pakistan. And this includes batting on the Karachi , Lahori and Multani expressways ( where even a Afridi is a new gen Viv Richards) nothing like Headingley , Lords or even Edgbaston. In head to head in the 8 test matches they have Afridi and Tendulkar have faced off on the same pitches , Tendulkar averages 31.07, Afridi averages 47.26. Younis Khan probably averages close to 100. Come, lets draw a conclusion.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Tendulkar since 2000, batting in arguably one of the greatest batting sides of all time with the likes of Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman, Ganguly....averages only 47.00 ( excl minnows) and that too on the flattest pitches in test history. The same universally acknowledged flat pitches of the decade of 2000 where (exclu minnows ) Ponting avgs nearly 60 compared to Tendulkar's 47, who is dumped below 11 batsman ? :blink: LOL ! Tendulkar's 4th innings avg on those easy and docile 4th innings pitches of Australia and South Africa , which don't even deserve to be called 4th innings ( according to you ) , is a horrendous 15.81. Doesn't get better in the 3rd innings in these countries ( which should be like 1st innings pitches, by your argument line ). It is a damning 21.18. He also has the distinction of being the small matter of, the most successful test and ODI captain in test history, winning a record matches on the trot, a record world cups on the trot, and a record Champions trophies on the trot ( even after the retirement of 70 % of his senior team). True, the show is not over yet. Ponting could so easily like Tendulkar just be ' mein aur mere batting records, bas , aur koi tension nahi mangta hai' . It takes alot of balls to captain a rebuilding side and lead to a successful transition. Yeah, he is indeed very brave. The little Mumbaikar, must go down as the only """ great """ batsman to have been an utter choker and nervous wreck as captain . He failed not once but in two stints. Any damn fricking great batsman, under any circumtance be it a Bradman or a Steve Waugh or Viv Richards or a Rahul Dravid or Lara or a Border ( who shepherded Aussies through their worst period , even guiding them to a WC win ) or a Gavaskar ( who led one of the weakest INdian teams to a better than 1 W/L ratio ) , has been a more than reasonably successful captain. Either they have upped their batting as captain or have lead sides successfully. Tendulkar fails on both amidst excuses galore. He is in all probablity the only damn exception. And then again and again, it points to the same bloody thing. HE JUST PLAINLY CANNOT PLAY AND THINK OUTSIDE HIMSELF. HE SIMPLY FACTING CAN'T. And it reflects in his nervous wreck demeanors as captain. ( Excuses galore) .

You can keep posting all the facts, statistics, blah di blah that you want. History will judge him as one of the greatest players of his era and THAT MY FRIEND IS WHAT WILL COUNT.

[Dhondy]

And therein lies my problem. Every player has his weaknesses and The Outsider is right to point them out, but unlike the other threads where a 100 posters rose to Sachin's defense, there is nobody to pick up the cudgels for Ponting or Lara- not a single person. Two of the greatest players to have ever played the game. Condemned without a trial, a jury or judge. Justice, ICF style.

[Dhondy]

Truth be told, Indians have no concept of fairness. It's something to be scoffed at, made fun of.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Sooda]

Hardly being condemned, the same close examination that Tendulkar routinely undergoes is being put into place for his primary rivals. I dont think weve really had a look at Lara this way-hasnt happened very often anyway, Ponting yes for sure. He is not loved here so you arent going to get many springing to his aid, Lara maybe deserves more of a case made for him. It is INDIAN cricket fans after all...we are going to be a bit more passionate in tendulkars defence. Australian umpiring being a case in point- I wouldnt call them exactly fair ...

[Lurker]

Not true ... check my post in Lara's thread. If anything ICF has the most no.of SRT Vs XYZ threads ... where people ( Indians ) go to extreeme lengths to run-down Boss. Best was when a poster said 2nd inngs = Decider when the XYZ was Ponting and 1st inngs was when the match got "setup" when XYZ=Sehwag ... all by the same poster within a few weeks of each other. No one other than Indians tries harder to run-down their own legends.

lol..That sums it up I suppose. You read it as SRT vs XYZ, I read it as XYZ vs SRT. You read it as efforts to run down boss, I see it as effort to run down everyone else except Boss. Case of glass half empty half full I suppose.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lurker]

No .... I read it exactly as what the owners of those threads intended to ... i.e XYZ > SRT

Errrr but read the highlighted portion of my response that I quoted from yours. Weren't you suggesting how boss is "run-down" frequently at ICF(and not merely this thread)? Of course this comes from someone(you) who keeps running down entire generations priors to circa 1970 :winky: