So this is what Indian team is capable of.....

[vvvslaxman]

Imagine England fan.. they have to go back to 1975 :cantstop:

[Ultimate_Game]

Imagine England fan.. they have to go back to 1975 :cantstop:

But at least they have other sports to look forward to - soccer, rugby, tennis, snooker etc. All we got is cricket and we are almost becoming like Eng footie team - all hype no results

[Karan114]

All we got is cricket and we are almost becoming like Eng footie team - all hype no results

OK now this is silly - we are the top ranked Test team in the world. Our performance in big tournaments is a definite concern but we are doing very well in the toughest and most important form of the game.

[Ultimate_Game]

OK now this is silly - we are the top ranked Test team in the world. Our performance in big tournaments is a definite concern but we are doing very well in the toughest and most important form of the game.

To be honest I care more for results in world tourneys than in bilateral series or a 2 test series.

[satyam1729]

But at least they have other sports to look forward to - soccer' date=' rugby, tennis, snooker etc. All we got is cricket and we are almost becoming like Eng footie team - all hype no results[/quote'] If England can claim football , then India can claim hockey. :cantstop:

[Karan114]

To be honest I care more for results in world tourneys than in bilateral series or a 2 test series.

Two Test series are not ideal but Test match performances are easily highest on my list, especially against good teams. The ODI World Cup is close in importance though I would take a Test series win in Australia or SA over that, to be honest. Bilateral series - depends, for example the CB Series in Australia was pretty important (well that was a tri-series to be fair). Big tournaments are definitely more important than your run of the mill ODI series like those countless tri-series against SL/Zim/Pak etc. But Test cricket is of most importance to me.

[Ultimate_Game]

If England can claim football ' date=' then India can claim hockey. :cantstop:[/quote'] At least we beat Pak in hockey world cup... that was good enough for me and then watching the whole hockey team retire... brings a smile to my face just thinking about it :biggrin:

[Zap_Brannigan]

Convenient selection to make your point. You cannot just remove 2007 WC. We haven't done well in the last 3 ICC tournaments sounds shocking, but then they have one every year. In practice, we are a bad T20 team and T20 were 2 out of the 3 tournaments. We got bounced out in England and now in WI. In ODI's and Tests, we could let the bouncers go but not in T20. Its about time our batsmen learned how to play the short ball and not get intimidated and leave it. Meanwhile, we are #2 in ODI's and #1 tests, which means that we have won a lot of competitive games.

[Ultimate_Game]

Convenient selection to make your point. You cannot just remove 2007 WC. We haven't done well in the last 3 ICC tournaments sounds shocking, but then they have one every year. In practice, we are a bad T20 team and T20 were 2 out of the 3 tournaments. We got bounced out in England and now in WI. In ODI's and Tests, we could let the bouncers go but not in T20. Its about time our batsmen learned how to play the short ball and not get intimidated and leave it. Meanwhile, we are #2 in ODI's and #1 tests, which means that we have won a lot of competitive games.

We are #2 in odis by winning loads of bilateral series. I would back India to win a best of 5 series against any team bar australia but when it comes to knock-out or one off must win games we leave a lot to be desired. We are similar to saffers in 90s in that saffers used to perform consistently and then get beaten in global tourneys. We are following a similar pattern, just that we can't even make it to knock-out rounds. You tell me, which odi victory stands out for you in the last 4-5 years? For me in the shorter format I only care about ICC tournaments. I would gladly lose every bilateral series as long as I can win the global tourney. Unfortunately for us it's the other way round :(

[satyam1729]

We are #2 in odis by winning loads of bilateral series. I would back India to win a best of 5 series against any team bar australia but when it comes to knock-out or one off must win games we leave a lot to be desired. We are similar to saffers in 90s in that saffers used to perform consistently and then get beaten in global tourneys. We are following a similar pattern, just that we can't even make it to knock-out rounds. You tell me, which odi victory stands out for you in the last 4-5 years? For me in the shorter format I only care about ICC tournaments. I would gladly lose every bilateral series as long as I can win the global tourney. Unfortunately for us it's the other way round :(

CB series in Australia. 4-1 thrashing to Pak in Pak

[Zap_Brannigan]

You tell me, which odi victory stands out for you in the last 4-5 years? For me in the shorter format I only care about ICC tournaments. I would gladly lose every bilateral series as long as I can win the global tourney. Unfortunately for us it's the other way round :(

Almost chasing down 350,India winning in Aus, CSK winning IPL 3 but more importantly every single test series ... ICC tournaments in the last 3 years have been really uninspiring. Too many "ICC tournaments" with lots of minnows. I havent got excited for an ICC tournament since the 2003 WC. After that every game we play in an ICC tournament is either a knock out game or in a very small group with a minnow on the side.l

[Ultimate_Game]

@satyam1729, Thrashing Pak in Pak was something special... in fact every match against pak is special. But the point I am trying to make is that it's not enough to be ranked no. 1 or 2 in the world if you keep on getting knocked out early in ICC tourneys consistently. And the reason I am so disappointed is the very point you have made - that we have consistently been good and thus ranked #2. My point is if we are so good why do we keep on getting knocked out early so often? I can understand once or twice but look at our track record for the last few years and it's nothing special. It's similar to pak fans yelling 60-40 when every time they have been owned up in games that really matter - in world cup. I think we need to hire a sports psychologist at the earliest. We had Sandy Gordon in 2003 and we reached finals. We all know the talent is there so what's stopping us from achieving at the world stage? It's got to be something mentally as all of a sudden we can't be such a bad team. But first we need to acknowledge there's a problem and then address it. Else we risk being the new saffers, which I suspect we already are.

[Ultimate_Game]

Almost chasing down 350' date='India winning in Aus, CSK winning IPL 3 but more importantly every single test series ... ICC tournaments in the last 3 years have been really uninspiring. Too many "ICC tournaments" with lots of minnows. I havent got excited for an ICC tournament since the 2003 WC. After that every game we play in an ICC tournament is either a knock out game or in a very small group with a minnow on the side.l[/quote'] Almost chasing down 350 is still a loss in my book. And I don't even know what CSK winning IPL3 has to do with this discussion. Maybe the reason you haven't been excited about ICC tourneys recently has been coz we have been knocked out in the early rounds. Winning takes care of everything my friend. After all weren't we excited about T20 2007?

[satyam1729]

@satyam1729, Thrashing Pak in Pak was something special... in fact every match against pak is special. But the point I am trying to make is that it's not enough to be ranked no. 1 or 2 in the world if you keep on getting knocked out early in ICC tourneys consistently. And the reason I am so disappointed is the very point you havbe made - that we have been consisten tly good and thus ranked #2. My point is if we are so good why do we keep on getting knocked out early so often? I can understand once or twice but look at our track record for the last few years and it's nothing special. It's similar to pak fans yelling 60-40 when every time they have been owned up in games that really matter - in world cup. I think we need to hire a sports psychologist at the earliest. We had Sandy Gordon in 2003 and we reached finals. We all know the talent is there so what's stopping us from achieving at the world stage? It's got to be something mentally as all of a sudden we can't be such a bad team. But first we need to acknowledge there's a problem and then address it. Else we risk being the new saffers, which I suspect we already are.

Because in a knock out tournament ypu can't expect batting to win you all the game. OK when was last time our bowlers defended a total of less than 250.

[Ultimate_Game]

Because in a knock out tournament ypu can't expect batting to win you all the game. OK when was last time our bowlers defended a total of less than 250.

Then let's face the problem head on and come up with a plan to address the issue. I would do the same thing which Dhoni did with CSK in IPL - play your best bowlers and don't care whether they are fast bowlers or spinners. I say let's decide once and for all we stop playing fast bowlers just for the sake of it. Let's have likes of Ashwin, Harbhajan, Ojha, murali kartik play in the XI. I am sure we are likely to succeed if we go with this combo then serve pies persisting with Zaheer or playing part timers like Pathan or jadeja. We should do the same thing SL did in 96 - go with spin and play your best bowlers even though all of them are spinners.

[vvvslaxman]

@satyam1729, Thrashing Pak in Pak was something special... in fact every match against pak is special. But the point I am trying to make is that it's not enough to be ranked no. 1 or 2 in the world if you keep on getting knocked out early in ICC tourneys consistently. And the reason I am so disappointed is the very point you have made - that we have consistently been good and thus ranked #2.e.

As far as i am concerned If India is guaranteed to be no.1 test team for next 5 years i don't mind losing all the "world cups" and all thukkada cups. It is not like India alone is getting knocked out. Other than Aussies most of the teams get knocked out all the time. 1) Australia - leave them out 2) South Africa - I think they have won a CT once. That's it. 3) Windies - Since 1979 world cup they have won a CT once that's it 4) England - :phehehe: 5) Pakistan - 1992 world cup win 2008 T20 win 6) India - 1983 world cup win, Benson hedges win 1985, CT win 2004. T20 2007 7) SL - 1996 world cup win 8) NZ - 2000 CT win It is not that all the teams are doing great job in these tournaments. Every one has poor record bar Australia. That too in T20? No thanks. Too bad India keeps losing big players like Viru for these tournaments. We shall come back in 2011 cup.

[satyam1729]

Then let's face the problem head on and come up with a plan to address the issue. I would do the same thing which Dhoni did with CSK in IPL - play your best bowlers and don't care whether they are fast bowlers or spinners. I say let's decide once and for all we stop playing fast bowlers just for the sake of it. Let's have likes of Ashwin, Harbhajan, Ojha, murali kartik play in the XI. I am sure we are likely to succeed if we go with this combo then serve pies persisting with Zaheer or playing part timers like Pathan or jadeja. We should do the same thing SL did in 96 - go with spin and play your best bowlers even though all of them are spinners.

We are doing this from last 23 years. In last 23 years we have lost only 2 home test series. This is some record. But we will get thrashed outside sub-continent.

[Ultimate_Game]

Too bad India keeps losing big players like Viru for these tournaments. We shall come back in 2011 cup.

You only get better if you learn lessons from your defeats. We cannot expect to perform better if we don't address our current concerns and pain points. The one aspect that has shocked me is that we have basically made the exact same mistakes we made in T20 2009. Our lack of fast bowling firepower, inability to play short balls and dependence on bits and pieces players were the reasons we crashed out of ICC T20 in 2009. So what did we do to address the problems? 1. We picked the usual pacers even though they are not good enough. 2. Don't think anyone has improved batting against short pitched stuff. 3. We still have players like Yusuf and Jadeja in the team just like we did in 2009. What makes you think we will turn the corner in 2011? I am not expecting india to win every match and every tourney but i do expect the team to at least address the existing concerns which are painfully obvious. Even as a layman I would have done the following... 1. Put faith in spinners if fast bowlers are not good enough. We saw against T20s against SL that our pacers can't take wickets or stop runs. So why not stick to spin which is our strength? Surely Dhoni who played with 3 full time spinners in winning IPL decide on a similar strategy for India? Who do you think is likely to trouble aussies and windies more - Zaheer & Nehra or Ojha, Murali Kartik, Ashwin and Harbhajan? 2. If you can't play short stuff, why not bat first after winning the toss so you can bide your time and try to accelerate after seeing off the new ball without the added pressure of reqd run rate while chasing? Why bat second and let our short-pitched challenged batters have the added pressure of chasing? Batting first against SA worked a charm so why not follow the same approach in super 8s? 3. In T20 you can't carry passengers? You can only have proper batsmen and bowlers. Bits and pieces players don't win you games. Surely that was clear after T20 2009, so why did we still persist with the likes of Jadeja & Pathan? I am afraid we won't learn any lessons this time as well and if you don't learn from your mistakes, you end up making the same mistakes again. We have paid the price now but I'm afriad we will do so again in 2011.

[riya]

Before IPL happened,yes thats right.

[Ultimate_Game]

We are doing this from last 23 years. In last 23 years we have lost only 2 home test series. This is some record. But we will get thrashed outside sub-continent.

I am not talking about tests... only the ICC tournaments. We need Zaheer, Sreesanth etc. for sure in tests outside sub-continent. But in shorter format we should focus more on spin if we don't have good pace attack.