The Batsman Formely Known as Mahendra Dhoni

[vaibhav_delhi]

Tell me an innings where he changed the game around for India' date=' outside[b'] sub-continent whether in Tests or ODIs when the team was in deep trouble.If you can't, the thread should be closed. P.S : I need a situation wherein India lost some quick wickets, while chasing or setting up a good total.And the Result was that India won that game.

so the subcontinent where india plays 75% of their matches does not count for you? too many clauses, but still http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/291366.html there are a few more, where india were not exactly in dire straits but dhoni played a match winning knock outside subcontinent

[gaurav92]

^In that game, Yuvi and Irfan played the key role again, and scored the important boundaries at key junctions.But still, Dhoni played a handy innings and he mad sure that he stays there and sees India through. But one innings ? isn't it just too little to say he is the greatest ? :dontknow:

[vaibhav_delhi]

^In that game, Yuvi and Irfan played the key role again, and scored the important boundaries at key junctions.But still, Dhoni played a handy innings and he mad sure that he stays there and sees India through. But one innings ? isn't it just too little to say he is the greatest ? :dontknow:

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/366623.html http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/377315.html man he has arnd 15 MoMs in ODIs. Not even accounting for the captaincy and keeping burdens. there has been none better finisher ever produced by india

[littlemaster1982]

Vaibhav, Dhoni is a good ODI batsman and played many a good innings. Not many would disagree. But how would you justify the claim that Dhoni is THE clutch batsman for India?

[vaibhav_delhi]

Vaibhav, Dhoni is a good ODI batsman and played many a good innings. Not many would disagree. But how would you justify the claim that Dhoni is THE clutch batsman for India?

I never said so. In tests , Laxman is our greatest clutch batsman. In Odis , dhoni is our greatest clutch batsman. He is more likely to finish matches for india than any other player. For overall batsmanship, it is definitely sachin by a LONG SHOT

[gaurav92]

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/366623.html man he has arnd 15 MoMs in ODIs. Not even accounting the captaincy and keeping burdens. there has been none better finisher ever produced by india

Under Pressure vaibhav you don't have enough stats, facts to say what you feel.You like Dhoni, and who would blame you, he is a good batsmen, but saying that he is the best, is simply ludicrous as he hasn't played any innings of substance yet, and also the fact that he isn't sound technically, just doesn't help him play long innings in Tests/ODIs outside the sub-continent. in that game, he came in at no.3 and did well, on that drop in flat track, and the early platform was set for him, and sehwag was going great guns. Now lets see the next game, he didn't come up at no.3 in Christchurch, because we lost an early wicket in the form of Veeru and the track offered some swing. http://www.cricinfo.com/nzvind2009/engine/match/366627.html We lost Gambhir, and he didn't come at no.4 too.He came only when the platform was set for him when Yuvi got out after a blitzkreig 87.Sachin was going berserk and taking on the attack, the NZ were too defensive and tired, and he came and played a handy knock.But where was the pressure even then ? Dude you may go on saying Dhoni is the best, but you will be objected time and again by others with some stats/ facts etc. For eg. i say that he hasn't finished the game for us once we lose wicket at the wrong time, when partnership is broken. See here. http://www.cricinfo.com/indvpak/engine/match/297805.html http://www.cricinfo.com/indvaus2009/engine/match/416239.html http://www.cricinfo.com/kitplycup/engine/match/345471.html

[littlemaster1982]

I never said so. In tests , Laxman is our greatest clutch batsman. In Odis , dhoni is our greatest clutch batsman. He is more likely to finish matches for india than any other player. For overall batsmanship, it is definitely sachin by a LONG SHOT

There has not been a better clutch batman than dhoni in the history of indian cricket (including sachin).

Then what does this mean? Are we just talking about finishing the matches? Then how can you include Sachin there?

[vaibhav_delhi]

@gaurav First of all, you had asked me for matches outside subcontinent(where india play only 25-30% of their matches and where dhoni obviously is less dominent), and I gave you 3(while conceeding tht india were not in dires straits in 2 of them) . Now you are showing a few matches where he failed to win it in the subcontinent. How embarassing. You dont win 15 MoMs, ICCs best ODI player award, have an avg of 50 at SR of 90 without being a fantastic player.

[littlemaster1982]

You dont win 15 MoMs' date=' ICCs best ODI player award, have an avg of 50 at SR of 90 without being a fantastic player.[/quote'] Who said he is not a good ODI batsman? We are just contesting your claim that he is THE batsman to go when things go wrong.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Then what does this mean? Are we just talking about finishing the matches? Then how can you include Sachin there?

No. I meant Getting the team across the victory line or ending a 50 over innings on a high is a very good example of clutch batting. dhoni is the best at that. He has also proved himself on other pressure situations as well.

[littlemaster1982]

Err. Finishing the matches = Getting the team across the victory line or ending a 50 over innings on a high. Am I missing anything?

[vaibhav_delhi]

Err. Finishing the matches = Getting the team across the victory line or ending a 50 over innings on a high. Am I missing anything?

I said it is a very good example, not the only example.

[littlemaster1982]

There you cannot include Sachin as he is a opener. That's all I'm saying.

[vaibhav_delhi]

There you cannot include Sachin as he is a opener. That's all I'm saying.

Agreed, had got your point. Sachin is the best where he bats. He too is a great clutch batsman, easily the 2nd best after dhoni in clutch situations in the ODIs imo.

[littlemaster1982]

This is getting into a circular argument :headshake:

[vaibhav_delhi]

This is getting into a circular argument :headshake:

why? quite straightforward imo . There is pressure in opening too but obviously not as much as in finishing in majority of circumstances.

[littlemaster1982]

No. Dhoni hasn't done enough to consider him as the best in clutch situations, yet. IMO, of course.

[saneindian]

why? quite straightforward imo .

Vaibhav, if you don't mind here is an unsolicited suggestion. Praise Dhoni, but not at the cost of insulting other Indian legends. Hope you will keep this in mind, else you can always ignore this.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Vaibhav' date=' if you don't mind here is an unsolicited suggestion. Praise Dhoni, but not at the cost of insulting other Indian legends. Hope you will keep this in mind, else you can always ignore this.[/quote'] well mate. your suggestions are always welcome. But I guess, the 'other indian legends' wont feel 'insulted' if someone tells them that dhoni is the best batsmen for a pressure situation in an ODI. I have said it infinite times that he is not as good with the bat in tests. And in overall batsmanship, both in ODIs and tests, sachin will forever own him.

[Andy]

Lol at littlemaster and G_92 arguing with Dhoni lunatics about how great Dhoni is in ODIs and Comparisions have started with SRT. I can only laugh on this, You guys should let this troll alone Not many on ICF will Agree that Dhoni is a great 'Batsman'.